America's first Cold War.

Lately I have been reading a large number of histories on the Creek Civil War, or the First Creek War as many may know it. I have also been reading books about Benjamin Hawkins and his tenure as the US Indian Agent to the nations south of the Ohio River. They have been real eye openers. In leading up to this war I have come to see that it was truly akin to our Cold War with the East. You had spies from Spain, France (only shortly) Britain and the US. You had intrigue and you had a cast of characters that would make Ian Fleming (the creator of James Bond) green with envy.

The stage was set prior to the Revolutionary War, probably going back to the French Indian War where Britain ended up with what is now Florida at the end of that war. Apparently the deer hide trade was big business with the growth of industrialization in Britain. Because of the high demand for deer hides, many British subjects moved into the lands of the Creek Confederation to facilitate the trade. In doing so they married into influential families and due to the matriarchal practices of the Tribes that made up the Creek Confederation ended up producing a whole generation of half british leaders. The first important one being Alexander McGillivray.

When the revolution began, the huge majority of these traders were staunch Tories, because they stood to loose all their fortunes, and they had some rather extensive fortunes due to the way the British limited who could trade with the Indians. After the Revolution many of these traders remained loyal to the Crown and their children were just as loyal, there was an exception here or there, but generally they were anti-US. One of the results of the Treaty of Paris (that ended the Revolution) was that both British West Florida and East Florida was returned to Spain.

When Spain got Florida back, it was not very strong and they feared they would loose their territories in what is now Louisiana, the Gulf Coast of Mississippi and Alabama along Florida. The newly independent state of GA just scared the devil out of them so to speak. They immediately allowed British agents to stir trouble along the GA and TENN borders and they themselves contributed to this. The British wanted the lands of the Ohio Valley back and had not vacated many of their trading and military outposts in those areas. They wanted to keep the young nation tied down on all its borders so they could stay in their outposts and they feared US encroachment in Canada. Fighting continued in GA with both Creeks and Seminoles, egged on by both the British and the Spanish.

The young half breed or Metis as the Spanish referred to them, Alexander McGillivray was one of the leaders of the Warring Creeks. He was a sickly man who looked white and actually had some difficulty speaking at length in Muskogean and at times needed an interpreter. But he was brilliant and a great strategist. This was taking place prior to the ratification of the Constitution...well, the State of GA was entering into treaty after treaty with the Creeks, typically with just one or two town leaders, and would get them to turn over land for a few gifts...well, the creeks who were involved in these treaties rarely, if ever, had any say so over the land they would sign over. Therefore most of the Creeks did not feel these treaties were valid. That is what led to a lot of the fighting and also to one of the bigger scandals of the era, the Yazoo Land Swindle.

Along comes the Constitution and George Washington, the Federal Government and GA had a huge falling out over this and the Federal Government did not want to have to send troops to the South to defend the Frontier, due to the situation in the Great Lakes area. George Washington had the GA treaties declared null and void. Meanwhile Spain and Britain were fanning the flames and the Federal Government knew it had to do something, the young Republic's resources were spread too thin and could not deal with the issues on the Southern Border and what was known generally as the "southwest" so he sent agents to meet with McGillivray. Oddly enough there were British agents and Spanish agents visiting at the same time trying to convince McGillivray that he should not contemplate peace with the US. About this time a character by the name of Bowles shows up in Canada with a handful of Creek and Seminole warriors and claims he represents the Creek Confederation and is seeking British aid in creating a Country made up of southern Indians that would be allies with Britain.

As a result of Washington's agent McGillivray and around 20 other Creek tribal leaders head out overland in what has been described as a rolling carnival to go to New York. The Group of Creeks are met at NYC by Tammany Hall and given a huge parade through the City, are wined and dined by the elites and become the toast of the town. They end up negotiating a treaty with the US that gave them back a lot of their land that they were swindled out of by GA and they ended up giving up some land in the Southern part of GA to act as a buffer with Florida plus some land to the west. Strangely it is reported that both Spanish and British agents were present in NYC and continually meeting with McGillivray and keeping their nations informed as to what was going on and continually tried to convince the Creeks not to enter into a treaty with the US. The Treaty of New York, is what the treaty was known as, from what I can tell it was the very first treaty ratified by the Senate under the new Constitution. This took place in 1790. That laid the foundation for the future Creek Civil War. (I am going to stop for tonight, but will continue with the story soon.)

One note I have is that we kinda thought that after the Revolutionary War, that we as the US had sent British back to Britain.
In other words they were no longer a threat. Yet in fact they were as we soon found out.

Artfuldodger said:

One note I have is that we kinda thought that after the Revolutionary War, that we as the US had sent British back to Britain.
In other words they were no longer a threat. Yet in fact they were as we soon found out.

Click to expand...

They never left the old "Northwest" nor Canada. They felt that the Great Lakes area were a logical extension of their holdings in Canada. The lines in the Revolutionary War were not as clear as many believe. Many in the 13 Rebellious Colonies were never Patriots and remained staunch Tories. New York, Maryland, Pennsylvania, South Carolina and Georgia had large numbers of Tories and there were lesser numbers in the other Colonies. Two Southern Colonies did not even send representatives to the Continental Congress nor did they join the rebellion, they were British West Florida and British East Florida, both of which became a safe haven for many Southern Tories.

One of my favorite characters during the Revolutionary War was Thomas "Burnt Foot" Brown who was an unlanded young nobleman from England who was granted lands not far from Augusta. Patriots burned his Plantation and Tarred and Feathered him in Augusta badly burning his feet. He ended up being a huge thorn in the side of many patriots in GA and South Carolina. He ended up leading a band of Creek, Seminole and Tory Troops known as His Majesty's or the King's Florida Rangers. They caused a lot of turmoil on the GA frontier. He had an uncanny ability to influence the Creeks and Seminoles of North Florida and South GA. He basically helped defeat the various invasions of Florida and fought in the Battle of Savannah, both the taking and loss of Savannah. His men also fought bravely in the Battle of Augusta and refused to surrender to the Patriot forces arrayed against them. They barely escaped with their lives when Augusta fell to the Patriots under Henry "Light Horse Harry" Lee, the father of Robert E. Lee, and General Greene. Brown negotiated a surrender to the Continental Army as opposed to the Patriot Militia from GA because they wanted him dead. He eventually was released in a POW swap and continued fighting for the Tory cause until the war ended.

Governor Wright at times hated him and at times thought he was the best thing around. He also helped stir up the Cherokees against the white settlers, who were rabid patriots, near their lands in the Upper Savannah River watershed. After the War he ended up a successful Planter in British possessions in the Caribbean eventually ending up on St. Vincent's with a successful Plantation.

With the entry of France into the American Revolution, the American theater became a side line within a larger almost World Wide War. Fighting took place in India, the Caribbean and in Europe.

King George III never really accepted the loss of his American possessions and leading up to the Treaty of Paris and after it the British schemed to hold on to the Ohio Valley and the Great Lake regions. This scheming lasted through the American Civil War and only ended towards the end of the 19th Century. The only difference over time was with the border between Canada and the US...once again it almost led to War when what is now the State of Washington was being settled...it was known as the Oregon Territory. Britain never trusted American intents with regards to Canada, especially after the Louisiana Purchase and Thomas Jefferson's Manifest Destiny. Many historians feel Britain was only one step away from intervening on behalf of the Confederacy during the War Between the States. They had too many commercial interests in North America to have behaved otherwise.

What was happening in North America was nothing more that a preview of the "Great Game" between Britain and Many European powers starting in the 19th Century leading up to, and being one of the main causes of WWI. This was where Britain was trying to protect her commercial and colonial interests throughout the world, specifically Africa and India.

Also Tecumseh came down South around 1811 and stirred up up the red sticks pretty good with talk of uniting the tribes and throwing the white man off their lands. The Ga ( lower ) Creeks were more peaceful but the Upper - Alabama Creeks were fired up by this powerful Chief and the Fort Mims massacre was the result.

westcobbdog said:

Also Tecumseh came down South around 1811 and stirred up up the red sticks pretty good with talk of uniting the tribes and throwing the white man off their lands. The Ga ( lower ) Creeks were more peaceful but the Upper - Alabama Creeks were fired up by this powerful Chief and the Fort Mims massacre was the result.

Click to expand...

That is very true and an interesting story. A whole set of circumstances created the perfect storm for his visit and what resulted from his visit. The Creek Nation had many ties with the Shawnee. Tecumseh's parents were actually married in the Creek Nation, his mother was a Creek. There were actually some Shawnee towns within the boundaries of the Creek Nation. Tecumseh had strong ties with the British in the Ohio Valley and Great Lakes region and he was very up to date on the Politics between the US and Britain.

Tecumseh's brother, Tenskwatawa (there are numerous spellings) "had a vision" that the Americans were basically tools of an evil spirit sometimes during the first part of the 19th Century. This led to a new religious movement with heavy political overtones. This new religion became known to Americans as the "Prophet" movement. Basically it called for unity of all native peoples and for them to stand as one against the Americans. "The Great Breath Giver" was the deity that presented this idea. It also called for abandoning all white ways. This movement became very popular in the Ohio Valley where the natives were also dealing with an influx of white settlers from the young Republic to their east.

At the time of the formation of the Prophet movement, events in Europe took an interesting turn. The Napoleonic Wars were changing the Political landscape. France "politically" conquered Spain which basically became a puppet state of France and in 1801 France gained the return of Louisiana via treaty with Spain. As you might recall France lost Louisiana at the end of the French Indian Wars to Spain. In order to raise capital for his future plans in Europe, Napoleon sold Louisiana to the US which at the time had Thomas Jefferson as President and he was pushing the doctrine of "Manifest Destiny". Neither Britain nor the Spanish Government in exile recognized the deal. The Louisiana Purchase could have only solidified the need for the Indians to unify in the face of the ever growing young Republic.

Shortly before this time a gentleman named Benjamin Hawkins was named Indian Supervisor for all the tribes south of the Ohio River. He truly felt sympathy for the Indians and felt it was his duty to look after them. He knew their only hope was to adopt white ways and become a part of US society. He rightfully felt that the young Republic was going to expand and if the natives did not adapt conflict would be unavoidable. He implemented programs to help assimilate them into society. He sent blacksmiths, iron ore, looms, spinning wheels, etc...he ran a school on the grounds of his Plantation that taught modern agricultural practices and animal husbandry. Because of their close proximity to the whites in GA the Lower Creek Townships somewhat enthusiastically took up these ways. Many Lower Creeks became extremely wealthy and accumulated large plantations no different that those of the white planters in the lands that bordered the Creek Nation.

The same process was taking place in the Upper Towns too, but because of their more isolated condition from the GA white settlements they did not benefit as much economically. Due to the importance of water travel and lack of roads, they also kept important trading relationships with the Spanish in Mobile and Pensacola. This fact kept them in contact with both Spanish agents and British agents that wanted to frustrate American plans of expansion. The Spanish Governor of West Florida also gave a Scottish Company exclusive trading rights within the Upper Creek Towns. Shortly after Napoleon politically conquered Spain he replaced the King with his brother who was more pliable, Britain sent troops to liberate Spain (known as the Peninsular Campaign) along with exiled Spanish and Portuguese troops. So Britain and Spain had become allies after hundreds of years being opposed to one another.

You had Spanish agents, British agents and numerous Tory exiles working against Hawkins in the Upper Creek towns. After the Louisiana Purchase, white settlers flooded into the Mississippi Territory and Tennessee had become a State and it was aggressively seeking white settlers. So the Upper Creek towns, which had been isolated from white settlement due to the Lower Towns acting as a buffer against the whites in GA were now becoming surrounded by Americans. These Americans were land hungry and this scared the younger Creeks in the upper towns. While many in the Upper Towns had kept to the old ways, many, even those who were anti-American, had prospered and benefited from the changing economy. William Weatherford aka Red Hawk, was one, he was a wealthy planter of mixed parentage (his father was an ardent Tory and his mother was a "princess" of the Wind Clan). By this time also you had white settlers moving into the lower Alabama river valley from the Mississippi Territory (Ft. Mims was a result of this) The border between the Creek Nation and the Mississippi Territory was rather vague down that way.

All that was going on when 1811 dawned. Due to issues of trade, right of maritime passage and border issues with Britain over Canada the US and Britain were on the verge of war again, everyone knew it was coming. Britain was still embroiled in the Napoleonic Wars in Europe so she knew she was going to need help in the coming war. Spain was still in the throws of expelling Napoleon from her borders and they deep down did not trust British intentions with her holdings in North America so Britain knew they could not rely on her as an aggressive ally, at best she would be a reluctant one. Tecumseh and his brother saw the coming war as a chance to forever rid themselves of the American threat. They became staunch British allies. Bolstered with British promises they set out south to create a unified front against the Americans.

In 1811 the US also knew war was coming with Britain and was making ready. One of the items they knew they needed was a couple of roads that would go through Cherokee, Choctaw and Chickasaw territory with the bulk of the roads going through Creek Territory so they could send military supplies and troops to its newly acquired lands on the Gulf of Mexico. The Upper Towns had a large number of younger men against the road. In the Lower Towns they were largely for the Roads, they saw the economic opportunities and wanted the added wealth. The natives were going to build inns and could charge tolls on the numerous bridges and ferries that would be necessary.

1811 was a momentous year for a couple of reasons. The first was the appearance of Haley's comet. When Tecumseh was heading south the comet was low on the horizon. He first visited the Chickasaw where he received a lukewarm greeting, they were a weak nation by then and were ambivalent to his plans. He next visited the Choctaw Nation which were strong. He received a rather hostile welcome, their leaders knew war against the US would be their doom. He was escorted out of their territories. At this time Hawkins had called a council of the Creeks and invited the Chickasaw, Choctaw and Cherokee to this council, its purpose was to inform the Indians that the roads were going to be built over some of their objections. He arrived in the Creek nation along with the comet being at its peak appearance....and during the Council. The older Upper Creek leaders were beginning to accumulate wealth by this time too. A split had developed between them and the younger leaders and strangely many of the women. The women were loosing influence due to the economics shifting their society away from a matriarchal tradition. A political rift had developed in the Upper Towns between the "old chiefs" and the younger creeks over the issue of the road. Into this mix stepped Tecumseh and his band of roughly 20 warriors and religious leaders....the prophets.

Through political maneuvering Tecumseh was allowed to speak. He spoke of unity but not of war. Hawkins and other American agents were present. So were British and Spanish spies. After awhile Hawkins felt he was going to have his way and did not suspect Tecumseh's true motives, so he eventually left. Because there were still numerous American citizens at the Council, Tecumseh sought, and received a private meeting with all the miccos (political leaders) . It was at this meeting where one of the neater stories happened. After he spoke of the coming war and the need to ally with the British, many of the older chiefs spoke out against him. Many of them had sided with and fought for the British during the Revolution. They had no doubt who would win the coming War. They pointed out that the US when it was weaker, defeated the British. This led to the British abandoning many of their Indian allies to face the retribution of the US and cost the Indians a lot of their lands, and pointed to GA as example of what the Creek Nation lost. The younger chiefs had not been around for the Revolution and they had no memories of the defeat, they sided with Tecumseh. Peter McQueen was a hot head younger leader who was already at odds with the old chiefs over the Road. He rallied many of the younger Creeks to Tecumseh's cause. Tecumseh, after not getting the unified support threatened some of the older chiefs. Legend has it he told them "When I return to Detroit I will stomp my foot and that shall destroy the homes of those that oppose me!" He then left the Creek Nation with the addition of a small Creek war band and headed back to Detroit.

While he was there, his brother spent some time with those Creeks that were disposed to ally with Tecumseh. These Creeks were indoctrinated in the Prophet movement and its practices. He found numerous adherents amongst the Alabama peoples. (The tribe who were part of the Creek Confederation, not the state) Chief of whom was Josiah Francis, another Creek of mixed parentage. About the time Tecumseh would have reached Detroit another fate of history occurred. The New Madrid earthquake hit, destroying many of the towns of the Upper Creeks, it did destruction as far away as Milledgeville, the Capital of GA. Word quickly spread of Tecumseh's threat, coupled with Haley's Comet....many of the Creek who were superstitious joined Tecumseh's cause and became ripe recruits for Josiah Francis and his band of Creek prophets.

Thanks for the history lesson....good read and thanks for sharing.

I know, this is an amazing part of our history and a big part at that. How it all ties together is interesting. Especially the Indian prophets, the earthquake, the comet, the trading, the interbreeding, & the Creek civil war.
Then how it all ties to Tecumseh, his brother, the Shawnee in relation to the prophet religion. How Tecumseh branched out to all the Indians for unity. How the Spanish and British used all this to their benefit.

Part of intrigue to me is how so many of these Indian chiefs and leaders were the result of the mixed marriages with the white traders.
How they were the younger ones who were influenced by prophet's religion and became prophets themselves. Not only prophets but chiefs and leaders with much influence.

Billcollector mentions them and then I research them. Just looked at Josiah Francis. He was born to a South Carolina frontier silversmith and a Creek Indian mother in central Alabama around 1770. He became a “prophet” of the Red Stick movement which attempted to purify Creek culture of foreign elements.

It's like most of the predominate leaders of this movement were mixed blood. A mixed race person telling people that part of his lineage is the enemy. That part of his lineage was from the evil Spirit. You'd think they, the mixed chiefs, wouldn't have any credibility.

I guess it has to do with all of their mothers being Indians and their fathers being white. Matrilineality is the tracing of lineage through the female line so they saw them as being Indian.

One of the more influential leaders of the "Red Sticks" was of course William Weatherford. He did not follow the prophets and was considered a "secular" leader by most of the historians I have read. Interestingly enough, he was only 1/8th Indian and 7/8ths white. I would argue that they were not so much "anti-white" as they were anti-American. Yes, the prophets preached anti-white culture, that it is what was leading to the down fall of the Indian according to their tenets. However, they sure liked white arms, and had a continual quest to gain supplies of powder, lead and firearms. I think of them almost as todays modern islamist. They hate western influence and culture and yet they use our innovations for their socio-political gains.

Strangely enough was their attitude towards slavery. The settlers in the Mississippi Territory and in GA and TENN. were petrified that they would support a slave revolt, remember, this was only 10 or so years after the Haitian revolt and that was any white southerners biggest fear. We have a strange, and most of the time, wrong idea of how the felt. This is largely due to what was going on in the Spanish territories of East and West Florida. The Creeks along with the Choctaw and Chickasaw largely held Africans in contempt. They too owned African Slaves but their method was different than our ideas of slavery. Indian slaves were given more freedom to marry who they wanted to and even own firearms. The could "win" their freedom and be adopted by the tribe, if the owners felt them deserving. During the Creek War and its opening days at Ft. Mims, the redsticks did not take African scalps, they thought those scalps were subpar when it came to being a trophy. They also did not respect Africans as warriors.

When General Claiborne attacked the town the whites called "the Holy Grounds" some African Slaves joined in the prophets in the defense of the town. Weatherford was at this battle and allegedly argued against allowing this, he feared them doing so would unify the whites even more against them (I truly do not see how that was possible) and give incentive to destroy the Creek Nation. Claiborne and Col Butler of the US Army both made mention of the slaves armed and defending the Holy Grounds and that did create a louder public outcry...but it did lead to many militia units staying in the West of Mississippi to guard against a slave revolt. Oddly, the prophets saw Africans as a sort of item associated with the American society that they preached against.

Artfuldodger, I am sure you ran across the issue of Seminole slaves and them not being allowed to go west in the early days of the removal act as being in large part, the cause of the 2d Seminole War. One other interesting twist of history, during the early 1820s William Weatherford joined William McIntosh in raids into East Florida to capture slaves from the Seminoles and repatriate them with their former owners. The slave raids was big business amongst the Creeks and made them lots of cash. It was mentioned in some of the materials you supplied links to in your thread on Billy Bowlegs.

It seems the details of the period between The Revolutionary War and the War Between the States, and Indian affairs in particular, gets largely omitted or glossed over in this country's education system. Thanks for the cliff's notes, gentleman.

jbird1 said:

It seems the details of the period between The Revolutionary War and the War Between the States, and Indian affairs in particular, gets largely omitted or glossed over in this country's education system. Thanks for the cliff's notes, gentleman.

Click to expand...

I've noticed that too. I wonder why since is was a major part of our history. Maybe Billcollector has some ideas.

Concerning the Indians slaves, I did read how they were treated differently to the point of even having firearms.

Concerning industrialism, I think we all like the products of it more than what it leads to. I would guess it would be like enjoying alcohol and then cursing what it made you do the next morning.
Liking electricity but not liking how you've become dependent on it.

I like the comparison with today's modern Islamist. They fuss a bit about our culture but don't mind the trading and Capitalist aspect of it. Even taking an American name for business purposes.

That's an interesting aspect of what we have been discussing concerning trading with each other. Americans, British, Spanish, Indians, free Blacks, slaves, all inter connecting concerning trade and finance.

That would probably be a good subject alone. Legal trade, black market, weapons, booze, gold, buckskins, seeds, medicine, prostitution, land, slave trade, slave reclamation, etc.

Then throw in mercenaries, arms dealers, pirates, Privateers, spies, politicians, etc. as related to the war's effects on trade.

Great info Redneck, I’d say u were a SE injun expert on par with a college professor, for real.

westcobbdog said:

Great info Redneck, I’d say u were a SE injun expert on par with a college professor, for real.

Click to expand...

Thanks, however, there are some in this forum whose knowledge about this period puts mine to shame. Ben Kirkland or Chehawknapper as he is known on here has a unique knowledge of this time period and is fascinating to listen to when he gets on this subject. He literally is a walking and talking library on Native Americans and Early settlers. He hosts the Chehaw Frontier Days Festival and the Indian Festival in Albany at Chehaw Park. Nick Baker or Nicodemus is also extremely knowledgeable on this period. They both participate in "living history" types of events. The Revolutionary War in Georgia through the waning days of the Seminole Wars are just fascinating to me. Many people don't think about it but the Creek Civil War and the First Creek War gave us some of the more colorful characters in American History. Of course it gave Andrew Jackson his fame and national prominence , but you had people like Davey Crockett and Sam Houston who also made a name for themselves during this conflict.

I would hazard to say that the 1st Creek conflict, especially if you include the 1st Seminole War, was probably one of the, if not the most, bloody Indian War in America's history. I would also think that the Battle of Horseshoe Bend was probably the single most devastating battle for Native Americans in North America. It is said that around 550 red stick noses (one person on Jackson's staff thought that collecting the noses of fallen warriors was the best way to get an accurate count of the dead red stick warriors) were collected from the battlefield and the estimates of warrior killed in the river ranges from 250 to 300. From the interviews of captive women and the handful of warriors captured after the battle there were around 1000 red stick warriors at the battle. Only a handful of warrior escaped and they did so in small groups during the night after the full day of fighting.

While few historians want to connect the 1st Creek War and the 1st Seminole War together, I always do. After the Battle of Horseshoe Bend Jackson marched to the heartland of the Creek Nation and ahead of him Peter McQueen and Josiah Francis fled with around 1000 red stick warriors and their families to Pensacola and Spanish protection. This band of red sticks continued raiding into what is now southern Alabama, southern Mississippi and southern Georgia and their raids, in part, are what led to Jackson's various expeditions into Florida culminating in the 1st Seminole War. Strangely enough, one would think that the Indian Raids alone would be what gave the incentive for action, but when one reads between the lines, the specter of a Slave Revolt loomed large in the logic of the time. The British and the Spanish also contributed to this fear. As has been pointed out in another thread, the British turned over a Fort on the Apalachicola River near what is now known as Tate's CensoredCensoredCensoredCensored to a group of run away slaves and armed them. They allied with the red sticks who were thick in the area.

No one knows exactly how many people lost their lives in this conflict. One interesting tidbit of information was that whenever US forces or their allies entered red stick towns one grisly discovery was always noted. The number of white scalps on display, in many cases being those of women, children and infants and in many cases they numbered over 100. Due to cultural and religious beliefs the Creeks would always mutilate and make trophies off of their victims if they had a chance to. This led to an interesting practice amongst the American forces and their allies. Whenever possible, if Americans were killed in a battle, they did not bury the dead, they would weight them down and sink them in a river or creek so they could not be dug up and desecrated at a later date. This also led to some of the same practices amongst the militia men who partook in the fight...the desecration of red stick bodies. There is a tale about how some militia men after the battle of Horseshoe Bend skinned some red stick corpses to make bridles out of the skins.

Maybe someone out there can inform me of any battles between the Americans and the Indians that were more costly in native lives than the Battle of Horseshoe Bend. Of the famous early battles, such as Tippecanoe the modern estimates of Indian deaths was around 50, though it is very unclear what the death toll was to those who fought on the American side. Most believe that the American casualty figures were higher than those of the Indians; the Americans suffered over 60 killed. At the Battle of Fallen Timbers the American forces reported that they found "about 30 or 40 dead Indians" on the battle field, however the British reported 19 Indian deaths. The Battle of the Thames, where Tecumseh was killed the Americans reported 33 Indians killed along with around 12 or so British soldiers however the Indians and British recorded the Indian Casualty figures at 16. During the Blackhawk War the Battle of Wisconsin Heights, which was the largest battle, the Indian death toll was around 60 for the highest estimates, though many believe that figure is rather inflated. Aside from the drawn out Seminole War(s) and the 2d Creek War, there were not many other conflicts involving such large forces of Indians up until the War Between the States. And try as I might, with the exception of the Battle of Little Bighorn I can not recall a battle where the Indians were able to muster a force as large as the confirmed killed at the Battle of Horseshoe Bend.

Many historians believe that the 1st Creek War was one of the most costly in life and property damage of all our Indian Wars. The Fort Mims massacre is an example. It is estimated that roughly 500 militia men, friendly Indians, settlers, metis (mixed blood white and Indians), and slaves were at Fort Mims at the time of the attack. All told, nearly 36, almost all men, escaped with out being captured or killed though many eventually succumbed to their wounds. When a relief party surveyed the battle field around 2 weeks later 247 bodies were found that belonged to those who had sought refuge in the Fort. I find this number fascinating in that wolves, bears and panthers were still common in this region at the time along with buzzards and turkey vultures plus one of the relief party wrote about the huge number of ravens there when they rode up and the surviving settler dogs were also feasting on the dead. There were also a handful of women and children who were captured by the red sticks. Because many of the structures in the fort where the militia and the others sought refuge in were burned to mere ashes many remains could not be counted. The estimates are that roughly 400 people were killed by the red sticks during this action. Over 100 red stick bodies were found by the relief party also. The Battle of Little Bighorn is often thought of as America's most costly battle with Native Americans, it resulting in around 270 American and allied Indian deaths. That number pales in comparison to the cost of the Battle of Ft. Mims.

How bout the fort the Sanish controlled I think in NW or North Central Fla that the Americans had to remove to make the frontier safer, where land troops from the North and a few ships came up from the south and a lucky cannon ball hit the powder keg killing 300-400 people. Don’t know how many were Indians but would guess a lot.

westcobbdog said:

How bout the fort the Sanish controlled I think in NW or North Central Fla that the Americans had to remove to make the frontier safer, where land troops from the North and a few ships came up from the south and a lucky cannon ball hit the powder keg killing 300-400 people. Don’t know how many were Indians but would guess a lot.

Click to expand...

Are you talking about Negro Fort? That was a Fort built by the British in 1814 on the banks of the Apalachicola River near present day Tate's CensoredCensoredCensoredCensored (or Tate's Hades to keep from being censored). After the end of the War of 1812 when the British withdrew from the area in 1815 it was turned over to a community of run away slaves along with arms and powder to "protect" them. There was also a number of the refugee red sticks that had escaped Alabama with Peter McQueen living there too. Amongst those Indians in the area was a small band of Choctaws who went against their nation and joined the red sticks in the Creek War. They could not return to their lands due to a death sentence that had been imposed upon them by the leaders of the Choctaw Nation for succumbing to the prophets.

The settlers in South GA, southern Alabama (in the areas ceded to the US via the Treaty of Ft. Jackson at the end of the Creek War) and southern Mississippi were fearful of the Fort and its inhabitants believing it would inspire a slave revolt, or at the very least, become a beacon for run away slaves and encourage others to escape to the area hoping to leave bondage. As many southern news publications of the day editorialized, the Fort had become a beacon for run away slaves from as far away as Virginia. Some of the run away slaves had joined the British Colonial Marines during the War of 1812 and were trained in the art of Warfare by the British. The former Marines were who the Fort was turned over to.

Today we seldom think about it, but in the Ante Bellum South one of the biggest fears was that of a Slave Rebellion. The Haitian Slave Revolution of 1803 sent a shock wave through the Southern States that is hard to understand today. The slaves of Haiti not only won their freedom through force of arms, they defeated veteran French Troops of Napoleon's. During the revolt the former slaves committed atrocities along the lines of those committed by the red sticks at the fall of Ft. Mims and almost completely massacred the white French population of that nation. This revolt coupled with the debt Napoleon was incurring with his continual military adventures in Europe is what led to the Louisiana Purchase in 1804. The revolt led to numerous revisions of the Slave laws and the creation of special patrols in an attempt to make a similar revolution impossible.

Andrew Jackson, flush with success from his recent victories during the Creek War and the Battle of New Orleans had been given Military Command of the Military District that was responsible for this region of America (its southern borders). The areas encompassed in his new Command included the recently acquired lands of southern Alabama and southwest Georgia. Jackson also had a "secret" interest in a slave "smuggling" enterprise which utilized Spanish West Florida as an entry point. I can not help but think that this "smuggling business" along with his involvement in land speculation contributed to his ordering an expedition to "take care of it." His interest in the slave enterprise has been pointed to as one of the reasons he wanted to capture Pensacola during the Creek War, due to a number of circumstances he never got around to it. Jackson had other motives too which would be apparent a couple of years later.

The Fort also presented another threat. It controlled the lower reaches of the Apalachicola River. This was an important factor. After the Creek War, one of the conditions imposed on the Creek Nation was that it would be "bound like a chain" by a string of Forts on its borders and in its interior. Also the lands of Southwest GA had been opened for white settlement. The main source of transportation to the Forts on the lower reaches of the Flint and Chattahoochee Rivers and the new settled regions of southwest GA were serviced by river transportation utilizing the Apalachicola River.

While the Apalachicola River was technically in Spanish West Florida, Spanish control was generally limited to a couple of outposts, namely Pensacola and St. Marks. The British, through trade and agents still were generally running free in Spanish West Florida and were also encouraging the recently arrived red sticks along with the Seminoles to raid American settlements and communities along its frontier with both Spanish West and East Florida. Because of the Spanish weakness in the area, the Americans also used the Apalachicola River as if it was its own. The Fort presented a situation where a group of run away slaves had a potential strangle hold on southwest GA's and southeast Alabama's life line. It was apparent to those in power that something had to be done about it.

In 1816 Jackson ordered General Gaines to take care of the Fort. He did so by using gun boats moving up the river and soldiers coming south overland from GA meeting up at the Fort. The run away slaves and their Indian allies had a few skirmishes with the troops moving overland but did not keep them from advancing on the Fort. During the meantime gunboats arrived on the river at the Fort. Prior to firing on the Fort General Gaines demanded that the occupants surrender. The run away slave in command said he was under British orders to not surrender, he then raised the Union Jack and a Red flag which meant "no quarters". One of the first cannon balls fired ended up in the Fort's magazine causing a massive explosion killing around 260 of the forts roughly 330 odd occupants. Strangely the run away slave commander Garcon and a Choctaw Chief survived this. The Fort immediately fell to the American forces. Garcon was executed by firing squad and the Choctaw Chief was turned over to the Lower Creeks that accompanied the army who killed and scalped him. The rest of the blacks that survived were captured and eventually resold into slavery. This all took place toward the end of July in 1816. There ended the saga of Negro Fort.

However, this battle had some far reaching ramifications. Amongst the Indians who were at the Fort were some from Fowl Town, which was on the lower Flint near present day Bainbridge. The Micco of Fowl Town was an old warrior that the Americans called Fat Warrior. He was a long time ally of the British and had sided with them during the Revolution as a young warrior and was one of the rare southern GA Miccos who supported the red stick movement. After the Revolution he moved his town from around present day Albany GA to what was thought of as Florida territory at the time (the southern border of GA in the west was very vague during those years) . As a result of these deaths, he was angered and started harassing the Americans at Fort Scott on the lower reaches of the Flint and near Fowl Town.

Because of this harassment troops from Fort Scott, along with some additional forces, raided and burned Fowl Town and fought an inconclusive battle known as the Battle of Fowl Town Swamp in November of 1817. In retaliation, Fat Warrior along with red sticks, Seminoles and run away slaves from the area, largely from North Florida, ambushed a survey party moving up the Chattahoochee River near present day Chattahoochee Florida on November 30, 1817. The survey party was also carrying supplies for Fort Scott along with some of the officer's wives. This ambush led to what became to be known as the "Scott Massacre".

The fall of Negro Fort also impacted the Seminoles of Spanish East Florida where there were large numbers of run away slaves living amongst them. The border raids into southeast GA increased markedly over the anger the Seminole communities in peninsula Spanish East Florida had because of this attack during 1817. These raids in southeast GA also provided political incentive for Jackson to invade Florida.

Historians are divided on when the First Seminole War actually started. Some point to the attack on Negro Fort, others point to the Battle of Fowl Town Swamp and the remaining historians point to the Scott Massacre. Regardless of where you stand on the start of the War, the attack on Negro Fort began a chain of events that led to Andrew Jackson personally leading an invasion of Florida in March of 1818 and redrawing the map of the young United States.

Andrew Jackson always felt that Florida rightfully belonged to the US and had wanted to take it from the Spanish. He felt as long as the Spanish held Florida there would not be peace on the southern border of the US. But for a chronic lack of supplies during the Creek War many feel, and I have no doubt, Jackson would have invaded Florida. Pensacola was being utilized by British Troops during the War of 1812 and based, in part, its southern campaign out of there during that war which culminated in the Battle of New Orleans.

During General Claiborne's campaign against the "Holy Grounds" some of his troops captured some correspondence between the Spanish Governor in Pensacola and William Weatherford discussing British and Spanish aid flowing from Pensacola and talking about the soon arrival of British forces en masse on the Gulf Coast. Jackson was privy to this correspondence. During Jackson's first campaign into the Creek Nation in the Fall of 1813 it was his intention to make it to the Alabama River and then move over land and capture Pensacola. His chronic lack of supplies, coupled with horrible weather and a lack of roads and militia troops on the verge of mutiny caused him to terminate his campaign after his victory at Talladega. It was always his stated intention to capture Pensacola during the Creek War, but that plan never came to fruition. He finally realized his long held desire in 1818.

One incident in the Creek War that has stuck in my head ever since I first read it was recorded by Davy Crockett in his autobiography. It is a good example of just how brutal things could get back then.

Apparently, Crockett and others attacked a Creek village. About 40-50 Indians ran into a house. The soldiers set the house on fire and burned up the Indians inside. Later, as they were sifting through the ashes of the village foraging for food (they were out of supplies,) they discovered that the house they burnt had a root cellar under it, with a big bin of potatoes stored in it. The heat of the fire had roasted the potatoes in the fat rendered from the burned Indians. They ate them.

I have always though the French and Indian Wars period was one of the more interesting in our history, but is often overlooked. Most of the stuff you hear about it is from the Northeast, but stuff was going on down here as well. Several times, I have visited the site of Fort Loudon near here in eastern TN. It was a British fort built with the permission of the Cherokee in the heart of their territory. The British wound up angering the Cherokee, who promptly switched sides and laid siege to the fort. Most of the fort's garrison of 200 soldiers was either killed or taken prisoner after the surrender, except for one officer, Captain John Stuart, who was released by Attakullakulla.

The fort has been reconstructed in a pretty accurate manner, and it's a very interesting place to visit. My wife an I were lucky enough to be there for a reenactment once.

NCHillbilly said:

One incident in the Creek War that has stuck in my head ever since I first read it was recorded by Davy Crockett in his autobiography. It is a good example of just how brutal things could get back then.

Apparently, Crockett and others attacked a Creek village. About 40-50 Indians ran into a house. The soldiers set the house on fire and burned up the Indians inside. Later, as they were sifting through the ashes of the village foraging for food (they were out of supplies,) they discovered that the house they burnt had a root cellar under it, with a big bin of potatoes stored in it. The heat of the fire had roasted the potatoes in the fat rendered from the burned Indians. They ate them.

I have always though the French and Indian Wars period was one of the more interesting in our history, but is often overlooked. Most of the stuff you hear about it is from the Northeast, but stuff was going on down here as well. Several times, I have visited the site of Fort Loudon near here in eastern TN. It was a British fort built with the permission of the Cherokee in the heart of their territory. The British wound up angering the Cherokee, who promptly switched sides and laid siege to the fort. Most of the fort's garrison of 200 soldiers was either killed or taken prisoner after the surrender, except for one officer, Captain John Stuart, who was released by Attakullakulla.

The fort has been reconstructed in a pretty accurate manner, and it's a very interesting place to visit. My wife an I were lucky enough to be there for a reenactment once.

Click to expand...

Yeah, that was something else. I believe that was at the Battle of Tallushatchee. Crockett was an "out rider" or scout for General Coffee during Jackson's first Campaign into the Creek Nation. I seem to recall Crockett writing that the "grease" from those burning Creeks gave those potatoes a "peculiar taste". All of Jackson's Campaigns were plagued by a horrible supply system and the troops were generally one step away form starvation. I would imagine that they actually were on the verge of starvation for them to eat those potatoes. In later days, Crockett was typically in political opposition to Jackson and often pointed out how Jackson mismanaged his Militia command (especially with regards to supplies) as a political arrow, so to speak.

During the first campaigns Jackson was in command of militia troops from Tennessee and so therefore they had to "contract" for their supplies. And the civilian suppliers seldom, if ever, delivered. At a couple of points the supply situation had gotten so bad the men were taking the corn out of the horse manure and eating it. The supply situation and the lack of winter clothing coupled with the bitterness of the winter of 1813-14 led to numerous mutinies by Jackson's troops which he eventually had to let loose so they could go home. The prophets made the situation worse for the hostile Indians by slaughtering most of the cattle, swine and chickens at the outset because they were " ways of the White man" and having them would anger the Great Breath Giver.

Many people do not realize this, but Jackson had no military training and during the bulk of the Creek War he was not in the Army, but was only a commander of Tennessee Militia. Though he had the rank of "General" he was often under the command of Army officers of a lesser rank and he had no influence what so ever amongst the Commanders of either the Georgia Militia or the Mississippi Territorial Militia. If these militia commanders could not get sufficient support from their respective States they had to make of the difference for supplies out of their personal wealth. This requirement for these Militia Generals to do so led in part to the financial ruin of General Claiborne who commanded the Mississippi Militia during the bulk of the Creek War.

After the Battle of Horseshoe Bend and the invasion to the heart of the Creek Nation Jackson went home. The subsequent negotiations were left up to General Charles C Pinckney who was the overall Army Commander for the bulk of the war against the Creeks. Many felt that Jackson should have a say so in the negotiations because they felt he was responsible for the overall defeat of the Red Sticks. Raids were still occurring in the Tensaw District and Jackson and his political allies were writing letter after letter to people in Washington City at the time. During this time a rather large force of British troops arrived at Apalachicola Bay with a large amount of arms for the remaining Red Sticks who had fled to Florida led by Peter McQueen. They built a Fort on St. George Island and then the rebuilt an old trading station/fort on some bluffs overlooking Apalachicola (this would become Negro Fort).

The commander of this British force had the intention of creating chaos in Georgia and Mississippi by fomenting a slave revolt and getting the Indians to continue their War. They were spreading the word that the long awaited British forces and supplies had arrived. Their plan was a logical one, they were preparing for their invasion of the Gulf Coast. The Spanish were unable to do anything about the British presence so they got on board with it so to speak. Due to all of this and the continued "politicking" by Jackson's supporters he was Commissioned in the US Army as a Brigadier General and Brevetted to Major General.

Jackson was dispatched to Fort Jackson to take over negotiations with the Creeks. During this time frame Major General Harrison of Tippecanoe fame resigned his commission so Jackson's name was presented to the Senate and he was promoted to Major General and was given command of the Southern Theater of War, the War of 1812 was still going on though negotiations were taking place in Europe that would soon end it. During the negotiations, or shortly before them, word arrived to Jackson that the British had made an approach to the Lower Creeks who had allied with the US about changing sides and it appears that some of them were actually thinking about this. Jackson used this information to impose upon the whole Creek Nation a rather harsh treaty. The Towns that sided with the Americans ended up having to cede near as much land. In the end the Creek Nation ended up loosing its lands in all of South GA, what is now South Alabama and the lands in the west of its nation. Jackson's intention was to isolate the Creek Nation, surrounding it by US lands where they could not border another Indian Nation or Florida so no more mischief could be made.

When the friendly Creeks objected, Jackson played his Ace up his sleeve. He argued, rightfully, that when Tecumseh had come, the obligations of the Treaty of New York had required them to turn him over to the Americans because the second he mentioned rebelling against they had the obligation to either execute him and his confederates or arrest him and turn him over to the Federal government. They had no argument to counter this and begrudgingly signed the Treaty of Fort Jackson though they all sent letters to Washington City to complain. Immediately upon the treaty being signed Jackson dispatched it to Washington and loaded up his command on boats present at Fort Jackson and headed down the river to Mobile to prepare for the Defense against the British who were scheming in Florida and shortly there after brilliantly defend New Orleans in a battle that would forever cement his national fame and eventually propel him into the Presidency.

In Jackson's final campaign into the Creek Nation which culminated at Horseshoe Bend he finally had a Regular Army Unit "technically" under his command. The 39th Infantry Regiment of the US Army. They were used by Jackson to storm the hardest section of the Creek defenses at Horseshoe Bend and suffered the most of all American Forces at the Battle.

Amongst their numbers was a very young ensign who went on to make a name for himself. He was wounded on two occasions. The first by a barbed iron headed arrow lodging into one of his legs which in "ripping" it out caused massive damage to his leg that plagued him for the rest of his days. Jackson saw him in the infirmary tent where he was arguing to go back out to the Battle. Jackson ordered him to stay.

After the Creek fortifications were breached and the Red Sticks were largely defeated a mopping up took place. Seldom was quarter given or asked for. The remaining Red Stick warriors would hold out in small fortified positions similar to the bunkers of today. In many instances they had to be burned out. There was one particular position that was hard to get at with fire. Jackson asked for volunteers and nobody came forward, until finally the young ensign limped forward and said he would do it and volunteered the troops under his command. He jumped into the ravine where the "bunker" was which stunned the Indians because he was so exposed, for a second they did not fire at him but seeing none of his troops following, the Creeks released a barrage upon him. He received numerous gunshot wounds and was taken off the field. The troops eventually were able to burn those holdouts out and they were all killed. The young ensign went on to serve as Governor of Tennessee and became the First President of the Republic of Texas, his name was Sam Houston.

In reading all the materials on this subject I could not help but wonder "What if the Creeks had turned Tecumseh over to Hawkins at the Council?" More than likely the Civil War would not have happened, or maybe it would have due to the Federal Road issue. But had it not happened, how would history had been different? Would Jackson have been propelled into the national spotlight? But for the Creek War he more than likely would have never been commissioned in the US Army when he was and therefore would not have been in command of the forces defending New Orleans. There is a good chance he would have never been more than a Southern Lawyer and Planter.

Jackson's original militia command was dismissed when it looked like the British were not going to invade the Gulf in early 1813 and only regrouped after the Fort Mims Massacre. Had the Creek War not happened, they might have never really considered it. The confusion the Creek War caused had to create a right circumstances for the British to revisit their southern invasion plans. The red stick Florida exiles were the reason behind the British going to Apalachicola Bay, it was common knowledge that Peter McQueen was considering surrendering to the Americans at Fort Jackson due to the good treatment "Billy" Weatherford had received. The Spanish Governor did not have the means to support the exiles and the British stepped in because it would aid in their southern strategy.

Tecumseh had been killed at the Battle of the Thames in early October of 1813 and his death had basically put an end to the British plans of creating a unified Indian front on the American Frontier. The war in the North had ground to a stalemate basically and the British had already started peace negotiations with the US. Unfortunately for the Red Sticks, the Battle of Burnt Corn Creek and the subsequent attack on Fort Mims took place before it was supposed to. The Creek Civil War was still raging and the Creek Nation was not unified and was totally unprepared to take on the US. The Creeks were not supposed to rebel until British forces had arrived on scene in the South.

No Creek war would have possibly meant no rise of Jackson and no renewed plans for a British Invasion of the Gulf Coast. Which would have meant no Battle of New Orleans. It appears to me that one Council where Tecumseh got to speak to the leaders in private altered the course of American history very drastically. To me this shows how history can pivot on one action which sets a ripple effect outwards.....Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.