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Milkman · Feb 21, 2017

Dustin said:
No, then again I consider taking somethings life a little more serious than going 5 over the speed limit..

You appear to be admonishing a member in a post above for not reporting someone who didn't properly do the call in game report.
Help me understand. Are you implying here that a person not reporting an animal being shot is more serious than someone breaking the speeding laws?

Dustin · Feb 21, 2017

Milkman said:
Are you implying here that a person not reporting an animal being shot is more serious than someone breaking the speeding laws?

Not implying it, flat out stating it, if as many people broke game laws as there is that break the speeding law there would not be one person that follows the game laws.

So yet again, yes, I consider taking somethings life more serious and a bigger deal than going 5 over the speed limit and still getting passed by people going 10 over.

If you're not gonna follow one of the game laws you might as well not follow any of them.

elfiii · Feb 21, 2017

deers2ward said:
Processors should have to get a license from the DNR, and the processors should then have to require ID to accept an animal and enter into system in real time while hunter is standing there. Hunter gets a receipt. DNR not only gets info, but also cross references for license and bag limit, and then acts upon illegal drop off attempts.

There are lots and lots of us who DIY and don't use a processor. As far as game law enforcement goes, exactly how much more are you willing to pay for a hunting license to get the level of enforcement you desire?

deers2ward · Feb 21, 2017

elfiii said:
There are lots and lots of us who DIY and don't use a processor. As far as game law enforcement goes, exactly how much more are you willing to pay for a hunting license to get the level of enforcement you desire?

I bought a lifetime license years ago, and also hunt on my own property. I also process my own deer, when I kill one which I haven't in two years (by choice).

Really doesn't matter what I would pay in hypotheticals, because we both know it will never happen...

I believe that people in general only do the right thing anymore if they either are afraid of the punishment or have a chance of getting caught....and you have neither under the current system.

elfiii · Feb 21, 2017

deers2ward said:
I believe that people in general only do the right thing anymore if they either are afraid of the punishment or have a chance of getting caught....and you have neither under the current system.

I believe most people do the right thing. The question is what is the price of catching the ones doing wrong and making them pay for their misdeeds? Most people are in favor of punishment for it. Not too many are willing to fork over the money to bring them to heel. That is the central problem.

red neck richie · Feb 21, 2017

deers2ward said:
Processors should have to get a license from the DNR, and the processors should then have to require ID to accept an animal and enter into system in real time while hunter is standing there. Hunter gets a receipt. DNR not only gets info, but also cross references for license and bag limit, and then acts upon illegal drop off attempts.

This increase in the processors time and resources (computer) would increase the price of getting a deer processed, which is then passed on to the consumer. The staff for DNR to actively monitor and dispatch officers to make arrests (not write tickets, cuff and stuff these scumbags) will mean increased license fees for hunters.

I would gladly pay both to know our resource is being truly managed and that laws are being enforced with certain and swift justice.

Unless you do something like this, hunters are going to do what they want, and their friends running the processor are going to look the other way (while they make money and pinch meat).

I totally disagree. Why should it be a processors job to do the job of dnr and law enforcement. And quite frankly will put processors out of business. The more difficult you make something the less people will do It. Humans are like water they take the least path of resistance. I agree that most people want to do the right thing but I would advise against making it too complicated. I still don't under stand if you have 3 days to report to dnr why a processor would need a report harvest number when you drop it off.

GDAWG84 · Feb 21, 2017

Dustin said:
No, then again I consider taking somethings life a little more serious than going 5 over the speed limit.

You pretty much nailed it... they've went to near extinction in the southeast once already and IMO are well on the way there again.

Fixed that for ya.

Well then you and the lawmakers of this state see thing quite differently since failure to harvest and simple speeding violations are both classed as misdeanors. Let's rephrase Milkman's previous questions: Have you willing reported every game violation that you have come across? Including the ones unknowingly or accidentally committed by yourself, your children, hunting partners/friends? How about your spouse? Would you turn her in?

As for the difference in management regimes here vs out west, it's still apples to oranges. Habitat, land use, hunter dynamics, they're all different and should be managed accordingly. Most of Georgia's deer population issues is not a DNR problem, it's a hunter management issue.

Dustin · Feb 21, 2017

GDAWG84 said:
Well then you and the lawmakers of this state see thing quite differently since failure to harvest and simple speeding violations are both classed as misdeanors. Let's rephrase Milkman's previous questions: Have you willing reported every game violation that you have come across? Including the ones unknowingly or accidentally committed by yourself, your children, hunting partners/friends? How about your spouse? Would you turn her in?

As for the difference in management regimes here vs out west, it's still apples to oranges. Habitat, land use, hunter dynamics, they're all different and should be managed accordingly. Most of Georgia's deer population issues is not a DNR problem, it's a hunter management issue.

Yes, I have turned in friends, I didn't for a while, then I saw that everyone you didn't turn in got more bold or, at the very least admitted to more that they had done.

The deer population issue is a DNR problem, It has been shown for 1,000s of yrs with everything imaginable, including hunting, that when left to their own accord people will destroy everything... The DNR's entire reason for being in existence is to MANAGE HUNTERS because they cannot manage the herd themselves. Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a dream land and knows NOTHING of the history of the deer in the south, that's why we had no deer season for decades, hunters left to manage the herd.

deers2ward · Feb 22, 2017

elfiii said:
I believe most people do the right thing. The question is what is the price of catching the ones doing wrong and making them pay for their misdeeds? Most people are in favor of punishment for it. Not too many are willing to fork over the money to bring them to heel. That is the central problem.

There are no free lunches, but I see the central problem as human behavior. Friends having someone else take their deer to the processor. The info the processor takes down is so he knows who to call when its ready....not because its going anywhere or being cross referenced (or acted upon) by anybody.

We had a much better system with the 5 tags (and the population flourished). I would support a return to that as a step in the right direction...If you think about the tags as a kind of monopoly money...you actually have a tangible thing that you must hand over and expire by punching, whereas today's system is more like...everyone has credit cards...... but charges to the account only post if they are self-reported. 100% honor system=only used by the honest.

j_seph · Feb 22, 2017

I remember 15/20 years ago driving home from hunting club and come across a road block with the DNR and local LEO's. Don't see them anymore, least I have not. Seemed to catch quiet a few that way.

elfiii · Feb 22, 2017

deers2ward said:
There are no free lunches, but I see the central problem as human behavior. Friends having someone else take their deer to the processor. The info the processor takes down is so he knows who to call when its ready....not because its going anywhere or being cross referenced (or acted upon) by anybody.

We had a much better system with the 5 tags (and the population flourished). I would support a return to that as a step in the right direction...If you think about the tags as a kind of monopoly money...you actually have a tangible thing that you must hand over and expire by punching, whereas today's system is more like...everyone has credit cards...... but charges to the account only post if they are self-reported. 100% honor system=only used by the honest.

We still have a tagging system and now you have 48 hours to report your kill. I haven't used a processor in 15 years so who would I turn my tag in to? The same people that now require me to report my kill within 48 hours, that's who.

It doesn't matter what system you use. Honest people will still be honest and dishonest people will still be dishonest.

Deer did not flourish because there was a tagging system.

GDAWG84 · Feb 22, 2017

Dustin said:
Yes, I have turned in friends, I didn't for a while, then I saw that everyone you didn't turn in got more bold or, at the very least admitted to more that they had done.

The deer population issue is a DNR problem, It has been shown for 1,000s of yrs with everything imaginable, including hunting, that when left to their own accord people will destroy everything... The DNR's entire reason for being in existence is to MANAGE HUNTERS because they cannot manage the herd themselves. Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a dream land and knows NOTHING of the history of the deer in the south, that's why we had no deer season for decades, hunters left to manage the herd.

I see your your point and commend you for your commitment to catching poachers. I'm not going to report somebody on failure to harvest unless I had evidence beyond word of mouth. Reporting somebody is great but word of mouth isnt enough to get a probable cause search or search warrant. If the ranger can roll up on them right then with a freshly killed deer and no confirmation number, then they're a caught tail; provided they haven't marked their harvest record. Then it becomes a moot point and a whole bunch of wasted effort. Presuming that a ranger can somehow get enough probable cause to go searching a suspects freezers for processed venison, how are they going prove that the venison in question was from an unreported deer unless there's a date on the package? That's the whole plausible denialibility factor. I'm not trying to be argumentative or dissuade anybody from doing what they think is right. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that there's more to the issue than just calling in a complaint and the violator getting a citation.

As for DNR's role in management of the deer herd, the only tool at their disposal is either sex days. The legislature sets the season length and bag limit. I don't really think you can compare the days of pre-regulations and market hunting to today's current population trend. I think DNR is doing the best it can given the situation and without busting the state up into different management zones based on physiographic regions. Yea the 12 deer limit is high for most areas but it also gives the areas that need it the option of managing their herd. DNR can't regulate common sense. It's up the hunters to decide whether to pull the trigger or not. And its up to the clubs to determine what an allowable, responsible harvest goal should be. Just because you can shoot 12 doesn't mean you should.

Oh and btw I've been both formally and professionally educated on the history of Georgia's deer herd and its restoration and management. It's very interesting stuff.

Dustin · Feb 23, 2017

GDAWG84 said:
As for DNR's role in management of the deer herd, the only tool at their disposal is either sex days. The legislature sets the season length and bag limit. I don't really think you can compare the days of pre-regulations and market hunting to today's current population trend. I think DNR is doing the best it can given the situation and without busting the state up into different management zones based on physiographic regions. Yea the 12 deer limit is high for most areas but it also gives the areas that need it the option of managing their herd. DNR can't regulate common sense. It's up the hunters to decide whether to pull the trigger or not. And its up to the clubs to determine what an allowable, responsible harvest goal should be. Just because you can shoot 12 doesn't mean you should.

Oh and btw I've been both formally and professionally educated on the history of Georgia's deer herd and its restoration and management. It's very interesting stuff.

They can set 1 doe day per yr... that's a lot they can do... doesn't matter what the legislature sets if you make it physically impossible to accomplish.

The market hunting thing... It sounds bad till you realize there are more licensed hunters out there now than there was at all back then in the state of GA.

The 12 deer limit may work in the areas where it's 1,000 acre club after 1,000 acre club... but in the areas that are more broken up it can put the deer population in a bad spot.

The main thing is, at the very least in my county and what traveling I do around northwest GA, the deer population is WAY down... where you used to be able to drive through and see a deer every time, now it's months at a time between sightings, trail cameras used to get 700+ pictures a week and the last yr or so I've actually put cams out in those same places and gotten nothing for months until a lone deer would pass through... it's not just my place, I'm talking spreading cameras out over 30 to 40 miles of area and the results be the same.

After hearing that most people say "the deer have moved", "you need to go to another county and get a lease",etc., if deer hunting involves driving halfway across the state and spending thousands of dollars on a huge lease that only 5 people can hunt without it being over hunted then I guess I'm out of the game... Before this 12 deer limit and doe days galore deer were plentiful around here, now it's a waste land.

The whole thing of the "over populated" crowd is IMO the biggest lie and a flat out excuse to just kill deer I've ever seen, If you don't believe me then all you have to do is drive around the Chickamauga battlefield, Cades cove... deer so thick you could hang out the window of the car and kill them with a sock full of wood screws... healthy deer, huge antlers, massive bodies, etc. no over browsing, no disease, nothing bad.

Either way, it's not gonna last forever, everyone now just thinks about the big thousand acre places for deer and that's how deer bag limits are managed, in another hundred yrs those 1,000 acre places will all be gone and so will the deer, might as well enjoy it while it's still here.

tonyrittenhouse · Feb 23, 2017

Dustin said:
They can set 1 doe day per yr... that's a lot they can do... doesn't matter what the legislature sets if you make it physically impossible to accomplish.

The market hunting thing... It sounds bad till you realize there are more licensed hunters out there now than there was at all back then in the state of GA.

The 12 deer limit may work in the areas where it's 1,000 acre club after 1,000 acre club... but in the areas that are more broken up it can put the deer population in a bad spot.

The main thing is, at the very least in my county and what traveling I do around northwest GA, the deer population is WAY down... where you used to be able to drive through and see a deer every time, now it's months at a time between sightings, trail cameras used to get 700+ pictures a week and the last yr or so I've actually put cams out in those same places and gotten nothing for months until a lone deer would pass through... it's not just my place, I'm talking spreading cameras out over 30 to 40 miles of area and the results be the same.

After hearing that most people say "the deer have moved", "you need to go to another county and get a lease",etc., if deer hunting involves driving halfway across the state and spending thousands of dollars on a huge lease that only 5 people can hunt without it being over hunted then I guess I'm out of the game... Before this 12 deer limit and doe days galore deer were plentiful around here, now it's a waste land.

The whole thing of the "over populated" crowd is IMO the biggest lie and a flat out excuse to just kill deer I've ever seen, If you don't believe me then all you have to do is drive around the Chickamauga battlefield, Cades cove... deer so thick you could hang out the window of the car and kill them with a sock full of wood screws... healthy deer, huge antlers, massive bodies, etc. no over browsing, no disease, nothing bad.

Either way, it's not gonna last forever, everyone now just thinks about the big thousand acre places for deer and that's how deer bag limits are managed, in another hundred yrs those 1,000 acre places will all be gone and so will the deer, might as well enjoy it while it's still here.

There is no use in trying to tell people anything especially the crowd that says I have plenty of deer. I have tried and tried and it's just no use. I hunt the forest service land and wma's in North Georgia and no what kind of deer we use to have before the 12 deer limit and all these either sex days. I'm done trying to tell them. All I can say is enjoy them while you have them because there will come a time you will be saying we have no deer.

HOGDOG76 · Feb 23, 2017

I75 goes north and I10 goes west take your pick

deers2ward said:
Do you think people would speed as much if they were cuffed and taken downtown? I doubt it...Comparing crimes against humanity and crimes against wildlife is another conversation all together.

I think this thread and the responses on it speak to the lack of regard and ignorance there is in the southeast relative to wildlife management.

Go out west or up to Alaska and take some big game without reporting it and see what happens. Won't just be a ticket.

If the people in the Southeast cared about the whitetail even a fraction of what folks (and the government) out west and up north care about their game animals, we would not even be having these conversations. But they won't. Never will. Just keep watching the GA bulldawgs and shooting deer in your relatives 2 acre backyards and keep on keeping on.....smh

deers2ward · Feb 25, 2017

HOGDOG76 said:
I75 goes north and I10 goes west take your pick

Lol, don't need to

Thankfully, I own my own land, and enough of it that I do not have to rely on what other people do to ensure that I have deer.

I don't always leave the state to hunt...but when I do.. I fly

Dustin · Feb 25, 2017

deers2ward said:
I own my own land, and enough of it that I do not have to rely on what other people do to ensure that I have deer.

I can promise you that you do not own enough land that surrounding property owners have no effect on the deer #'s in your area.

humdandy · Feb 25, 2017

deers2ward said:
Processors should have to get a license from the DNR, and the processors should then have to require ID to accept an animal and enter into system in real time while hunter is standing there. Hunter gets a receipt. DNR not only gets info, but also cross references for license and bag limit, and then acts upon illegal drop off attempts.

This increase in the processors time and resources (computer) would increase the price of getting a deer processed, which is then passed on to the consumer. The staff for DNR to actively monitor and dispatch officers to make arrests (not write tickets, cuff and stuff these scumbags) will mean increased license fees for hunters.

I would gladly pay both to know our resource is being truly managed and that laws are being enforced with certain and swift justice.

Unless you do something like this, hunters are going to do what they want, and their friends running the processor are going to look the other way (while they make money and pinch meat).

Why would you care? You have not killed a deer in GA since 2007?

Nicodemus · Feb 26, 2017

Alright, folks, that`s enough. Keep it clean, and civil.

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