People ARE Mixing the Gospels Together!

newnature · Mar 5, 2016

So-called Christendom today fails to rightly divide the word of truth, because they have mixed God’s program with Israel and his program with the Body of Christ and mixed dispensations together; dispensations that do not mix together, and as a result, they think they have taken on Israel’s role from the point where Israel left off.

The programs have simply been intertwined in the minds of the religious world. Any kind of works at all, even if they appear to be good works in a our minds, that are done for the purpose attaining salvation, or for the purpose of maintaining salvation, and even for the purpose of proving our salvation is a slap in the face of God, who had to provide the gift of salvation, because our righteousness would be totally incapable of meriting it. â€¨

It was God’s plan to use the faith and its resultant faithfulness of the son of God in the ultimate glorification of human-kind who would take him at his word, the union of believers to Christ is that which allows God to remain just when he credits those with the righteousness of his son. â€¨Are we to study the Word of God as though it were a hodge-podge assortment of instructions that are all the same for all the people of all the ages? Some people study it that way, and then wonder why they can not make sense of it. â€¨

Cafeteria Christianity, each group placing on their plate the portion, or portions of Scripture that appeal most to them. “We want this, but we will ignore that.” “We will take one of these, but we will leave the others off our plate.” But we can not pick and choose whatever doctrine suits our appetites, as though it is left up to us to sere ourselves.â€¨

We have to allow God to tell us in the Word, the portions of that Word that are specifically written about and directly apply to us. If you read the words “ye men of Israel,” “ye men of Judaea” do not take from the table of that nation and put that instruction on your plate. You are not the nation Israel. You are not under the law, they were. You are under grace!

gordon 2 · Mar 6, 2016

newnature said:
So-called Christendom today fails to rightly divide the word of truth, because they have mixed God’s program with Israel and his program with the Body of Christ and mixed dispensations together; dispensations that do not mix together, and as a result, they think they have taken on Israel’s role from the point where Israel left off.

The programs have simply been intertwined in the minds of the religious world. Any kind of works at all, even if they appear to be good works in a our minds, that are done for the purpose attaining salvation, or for the purpose of maintaining salvation, and even for the purpose of proving our salvation is a slap in the face of God, who had to provide the gift of salvation, because our righteousness would be totally incapable of meriting it. â€¨

It was God’s plan to use the faith and its resultant faithfulness of the son of God in the ultimate glorification of human-kind who would take him at his word, the union of believers to Christ is that which allows God to remain just when he credits those with the righteousness of his son. â€¨Are we to study the Word of God as though it were a hodge-podge assortment of instructions that are all the same for all the people of all the ages? Some people study it that way, and then wonder why they can not make sense of it. â€¨

Cafeteria Christianity, each group placing on their plate the portion, or portions of Scripture that appeal most to them. “We want this, but we will ignore that.” “We will take one of these, but we will leave the others off our plate.” But we can not pick and choose whatever doctrine suits our appetites, as though it is left up to us to sere ourselves.â€¨

We have to allow God to tell us in the Word, the portions of that Word that are specifically written about and directly apply to us. If you read the words “ye men of Israel,” “ye men of Judaea” do not take from the table of that nation and put that instruction on your plate. You are not the nation Israel. You are not under the law, they were. You are under grace!

Preach it bros. You should pamphlet this to the people who caucus. You might win a few-- one or two.

newnature · Mar 6, 2016

gordon 2 said:
Preach it bros. You should pamphlet this to the people who caucus. You might win a few-- one or two.

Paul’s message is unique and distinct from the message of Jesus Christ and the 12 apostles, there is difference in God’s earthly program and God’s heavenly program, what traditions of people must be left behind if we take the doctrine of Paul seriously?

hayseed_theology · Mar 6, 2016

newnature said:
what traditions of people must be left behind if we take the doctrine of Paul seriously?

Dispensationalism ::ke:

newnature · Mar 6, 2016

hayseed_theology said:
Dispensationalism

Jesus gave himself a ransom for MANY. Who are the “many” spoken of? Israel!

But a ransom for ALL was not testified until Paul proclaimed it, the revelation of the secret, which was kept secret since the world began.

hayseed_theology · Mar 6, 2016

newnature said:
Jesus gave himself a ransom for MANY. Who are the “many” spoken of? Israel!

But a ransom for ALL was not testified until Paul proclaimed it, the revelation of the secret, which was kept secret since the world began.

So your argument is that Christ gave himself for ethnic Israel only?

Nothing in the context of Matthew 20 or Mark 10 indicates to me that the Israel is the many. Could you demonstrate from the immediate context that the many spoken of is Israel.

John 3:16 seems to indicate that Christ's atonement was intended for a broader audience than merely ethnic Israel.

newnature · Mar 6, 2016

hayseed_theology said:
So your argument is that Christ gave himself for ethnic Israel only?

Nothing in the context of Matthew 20 or Mark 10 indicates to me that the Israel is the many. Could you demonstrate from the immediate context that the many spoken of is Israel.

John 3:16 seems to indicate that Christ's atonement was intended for a broader audience than merely ethnic Israel.

I have history. Leviticus 26, beginning with verse 40, is the confession Israel would be called upon to make. Israel would also have to accept the remainder of her punishment, that failure under the contract would call for and that would be the seven year tribulation. When John the Baptizer came along, had anything new begun? He simply called upon Israel to change their minds about their righteousness.

hayseed_theology · Mar 6, 2016

newnature said:
I have history. Leviticus 26, beginning with verse 40, is the confession Israel would be called upon to make. Israel would also have to accept the remainder of her punishment, that failure under the contract would call for and that would be the seven year tribulation. When John the Baptizer came along, had anything new begun? He simply called upon Israel to change their minds about their righteousness.

So you can't demonstrate from the immediate context that Israel is the "many" referenced in those passages?

gordon 2 · Mar 6, 2016

newnature said:
Paul’s message is unique and distinct from the message of Jesus Christ and the 12 apostles, there is difference in God’s earthly program and God’s heavenly program, what traditions of people must be left behind if we take the doctrine of Paul seriously?

Sorry bros. but if your saying that there are two gospels, one from Jesus and the other from Paul, or one from Peter and another from Paul, then you have at it. I will not entertain this if it is the case. If you mean something else, then explain more...

Paul did not have a different gospel from our Lord. There was not one gospel to the Jews and then a different one to the gentiles.

I understood from your original post that some Christians mix up the disciplines from the old Hebrew covenant with the covenant of grace and that it makes for a mixed up man and a mixed up life. And I agree. This does happen.

Our brother Paul`s model is our Lord Jesus who ministered to both Jews and gentiles. Peter ministered to both Jews and gentiles. The other apostles ministered to both Jews and gentiles. There is one gospel.

newnature · Mar 6, 2016

hayseed_theology said:
So you can't demonstrate from the immediate context that Israel is the "many" referenced in those passages?

A little history first. John the Baptizer came in connection with Yahweh’s earthly nation Israel and in accordance with an offer to confess their failure under the contract in order to gain their promised land. That confession itself would be considered a fruit of righteousness in the eyes of Yahweh. The focus during John the Baptizer’s ministry was still Israel and the issue continued to be the land. Nothing had changed except that Israel was being offered the opportunity to confess their failure under the contract. Israel continued to be the focus and the land continued to be the issue.

Artfuldodger · Mar 6, 2016

Ephesians 2:12-14
remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.14For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,

Was there a time that Gentiles were separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth?

Artfuldodger · Mar 6, 2016

Ephesians 3:6
This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

Romans 11:25-26
25For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery-- so that you will not be wise in your own estimation-- that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; 26and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, "THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB."

newnature · Mar 6, 2016

Artfuldodger said:
Ephesians 2:12-14
remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.14For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,

Reconciliation has to do with God’s justice being satisfied for sins, and that means all of them and that means for all the world, reconciliation is a sin issue. Justification is something entirely different, it has to do with a judicial decree of the very righteousness of God himself freely attributed to the believer’s account. â€¨

Who took your sin debt? Jesus Christ! Who paid it? Jesus Christ! How much of it did he pay? All of it before you were ever born! Reconciliation had to do with sin debt. Justification has to do with righteousness.

Artfuldodger · Mar 6, 2016

Romans 11:14-15
for I want somehow to make the people of Israel jealous of what you Gentiles have, so I might save some of them.15 For since their rejection meant that God offered salvation to the rest of the world, their acceptance will be even more wonderful. It will be life for those who were dead!

Their rejection meant that God offered salvation to the rest of the world. What about before their rejection?

newnature · Mar 6, 2016

Artfuldodger said:
Romans 11:14-15
for I want somehow to make the people of Israel jealous of what you Gentiles have, so I might save some of them.15 For since their rejection meant that God offered salvation to the rest of the world, their acceptance will be even more wonderful. It will be life for those who were dead!

Their rejection meant that God offered salvation to the rest of the world. What about before their rejection?

A Priesthood would be essential if Yahweh was going to work at all with Gentiles during a time when Israel was a peculiar treasure unto him; a royal priesthood. Israel was given that instrumental role to play when it came to representing Yahweh to the nations at that time. Israel was to be a light unto the Gentiles according to prophecy.

Israel was to make Yahweh’s name GREAT among the nations. Yahweh has always considered people righteous on the basis of their belief (faith). Call of Abram (Abraham). Now we have humankind divided into two different parts, Israelites and Gentiles. Abram is the father of Israel and the father of all with faith.

Artfuldodger · Mar 6, 2016

newnature said:
Reconciliation has to do with God’s justice being satisfied for sins, and that means all of them and that means for all the world, reconciliation is a sin issue. Justification is something entirely different, it has to do with a judicial decree of the very righteousness of God himself freely attributed to the believer’s account.  

Who took your sin debt? Jesus Christ! Who paid it? Jesus Christ! How much of it did he pay? All of it before you were ever born! Reconciliation had to do with sin debt. Justification has to do with righteousness.

"at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth"

What does that mean?

"I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery"

Explain the mystery! Mystery being "secret."

Artfuldodger · Mar 6, 2016

newnature said:
A Priesthood would be essential if Yahweh was going to work at all with Gentiles during a time when Israel was a peculiar treasure unto him; a royal priesthood. Israel was given that instrumental role to play when it came to representing Yahweh to the nations at that time. Israel was to be a light unto the Gentiles according to prophecy.

Israel was to make Yahweh’s name GREAT among the nations. Yahweh has always considered people righteous on the basis of their belief (faith). Call of Abram (Abraham). Now we have humankind divided into two different parts, Israelites and Gentiles. Abram is the father of Israel and the father of all with faith.

"having no hope and without God in the world."
Who was this referring to?

newnature · Mar 6, 2016

Artfuldodger said:
"at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth"

What does that mean?

"I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery"

Explain the mystery! Mystery being "secret."

Reconciliation simply means a change in status, and it is a major issue recognizing reconciliation. Reconciliation from God’s advantage point is an accomplished fact, and God is reconciled where the totality of the sin debt of all men is concerned.

Artfuldodger · Mar 6, 2016

newnature said:
Reconciliation simply means a change in status, and it is a major issue recognizing reconciliation. Reconciliation from God’s advantage point is an accomplished fact, and God is reconciled where the totality of the sin debt of all men is concerned.

What is the mystery that was finally revealed?

Romans 16:25
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Ephesians 3:1-
1For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles-- 2if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace which was given to me for you; 3that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief.4By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; 6to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,

Colossians 1:24-27
Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church. I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness -- the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints. To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

newnature · Mar 6, 2016

Artfuldodger said:
What is the mystery that was finally revealed?

Romans 16:25
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Ephesians 3:1-
1For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles-- 2if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace which was given to me for you; 3that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief.4By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; 6to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,

Colossians 1:24-27
Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church. I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness -- the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints. To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

There are those who mistakenly suppose that reconciliation is the same thing as righteousification. These people have jumped to the conclusion that Christ taking the sin issue off the table of God’s justice through his becoming sin for man is that which makes a man as righteous as God; they have mistaken reconciliation for justification.

People ARE Mixing the Gospels Together!

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