Blasphemy...

Madman

Senior Member
I've often thought about how much of man does God use. Could or would the world receive the Word without man? Even in that aspect God may use man's intersession.
 
Maybe most everyone did get it wrong and Jesus isn't God. Maybe he has always been with God as a Son. Then again perhaps the Father became the Son. Did Christ incarnate as the man Jesus or did God the Father incarnate as the man Jesus?
The Pope's friend may have just heard it wrong.
 
I think what the Pope was saying is that Jesus gave up his divinity as a man or maybe he wasn't acting as God while he was a man. What ever that term is when deity gives up divinity.
Scalfari, who famously does not take notes during interviews, has misrepresented Pope Francis in the past.
 

Big7

Senior Member
I discern from the Vatican's polite reply that it was not what the pope said.
EXACTLY ! Some MORONS didn't get past the first paragraph. Good grief.

I feel sorry for them, I'll still pray for the seriously disenfranchised.

Folks need to stop making stuff up trying to figure things out all by themselves.

Just Sayin'
 
I think what the Pope was saying is that Jesus gave up his divinity as a man or maybe he wasn't acting as God while he was a man. What ever that term is when deity gives up divinity.
Giving up one's Godly powers is the explanation that makes the most sense to me, although it's still a bizarre concept that my mind struggles with.

One God, but in three persons. Each having all the attributes of God. Ever-present, all-knowing, all-powerful.

Yet, in Matthew 24:36, Jesus said he didn't know when he'd be coming back to rule in Glory over the Earth. He said that was something only God the Father knew, not the Son.

Jesus on Earth also acknowledged that God the Father had power and authority that Jesus didn't have. Including the power to designate who could sit at his right hand, and his left hand, later when he came into his Glory. Jesus said to his disciples that such a request was not in his power to grant, as the Father decides who sits there. (Mark 10:35; Matthew 20:20).
 

Israel

Senior Member
Giving up one's Godly powers is the explanation that makes the most sense to me, although it's still a bizarre concept that my mind struggles with.

One God, but in three persons. Each having all the attributes of God. Ever-present, all-knowing, all-powerful.

Yet, in Matthew 24:36, Jesus said he didn't know when he'd be coming back to rule in Glory over the Earth. He said that was something only God the Father knew, not the Son.

Jesus on Earth also acknowledged that God the Father had power and authority that Jesus didn't have. Including the power to designate who could sit at his right hand, and his left hand, later when he came into his Glory. Jesus said to his disciples that such a request was not in his power to grant, as the Father decides who sits there. (Mark 10:35; Matthew 20:20).
Giving up one's Godly powers is the explanation that makes the most sense to me, although it's still a bizarre concept that my mind struggles with.
You are not alone:

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Though I fear a spirit abroad today would see Paul having a radio show or podcast in which he could be consulted for "all the answers" is he not rather admitting, like all of us (or any who believe) we are drawn into a great mystery, and that without argument.

"How is God?" How is He...in His being?

Yet we who believe may also believe he did not merely write this "of himself"...the prompting to it, the motivation for it, the reason for its writing...is of God, Himself.

Here is settled abruptly, if we are indeed drawn into it, the futility of all figuring and calculations, the philosophical meanderings, the intellectual graspings, the religious dogmas. We come at last, if we do at all, to that place of reliance upon another to disclose Himself, knowing that apart from that, all expectations of, suspicions about, figurings to...mean not only nothing, but less than so...for they are now working against understanding. Facing, in some way in ourselves, all the previous bases of relationship.

"Will it be to my advantage to know this person?" or "Will knowing about this person (especially if they are of any power) be of use in harnessing that power to my advantage, rather than harm?"

That place where Joshua asks of the Warrior:

And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?

And having his eyes opened in this

And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come.

He responded by this

And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?

This:

Then the Commander of the LORD’s army said to Joshua, “Take your sandal off your foot, for the place where you stand is holy.” And Joshua did so.

What we bring of "need to know" must be dealt with in revelation of its source. For, or against...me?

Do we hear the laughter?

What me would there be, could there be, to even ask such a question...apart from a me already provided...to even ask?

If I am not a trick of time and chaos, I cannot be tricked by it.

Joshua showed whom he was for in his submission to the authority of the words spoken to him.

Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required. Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
 

gordon 2

Senior Member
"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

For Christians is God both an individual and what He contributes to human life? Or put differently, is the Holy Spirit both an individual and the effect ( or manifestation) of his interventions in the lives of people. Or put differently is God's salvific intervention in the person and the work of Jesus Christ Him?

Without some intimacy with God as a "Spirit" the id of Jesus Christ son of Mary is very difficult and can be difficult even with the intimate.

Most have to rely on scripture for identification--- which usually is making a case by searching precedence in scripture. It leaves many hanging... especially those who issue from bible alone cultures.

That Jesus was both man and God is a puzzle except that God as Spirit does temper his interventions with humans ... within limits and therefore tempering Himself to circumstance, even though his being --Him-- or the Spirit is limitless.

Therefore Jesus Christ is justified in making distinction with his powers as God and man, and the powers of our Father.

Now for those who search scripture... was God's wisper God when when he spoke to Elijah at the cave mouth?

2After the earthquake there was a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire came a still, small voice. 13When Elijah heard it, he wrapped his face in his cloak and went out and stood at the mouth of the cave. Suddenly a voice came to him and said, “What are you doing here, Elijah?”…

Now this scripture says that the Lord was not in the fire. My Question is: Was God in the voice that addressed Elijah? Was God separate in that his word and his being were two things considering that John our apostle states that God is a Spirit??? Was the voice , the sounds God's and God?

Now was the voice from Jesus's mouth God's and the actions of Jesus God's? Was the whole ministry of Jesus essentially God's ministry of salvation and was the ministry independent of Jesus son of Mary... or is Christ's person inseparable from the will of the Father in time... so much so that it is equally Him?

I think the bible says that God says He will redeem his people. "Therefore, say to the Israelites: 'I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the yoke of the Egyptians. I will free you from being slaves to them, and I will redeem you with an outstretched arm and with mighty acts of judgment. "

Is the Holy Spirit a Spirit, a person, an individual, a voice, a flame, a fragrance, etc and what they say and do? Both manifestation and what they do? Is Jesus' physical and spiritual DNA sufficient... to make him for us... God's agent of redemption and God?

Tradition say that Jesus is both man and God.

What would cause some to say that Jacob when he wrestled with a man all night and injured his hip, that Jacob wrestled with an angel and others that Jacob wrestled with God? Is this what we are doing with Jesus? Yet Jesus is said to have said, " I and the Father are one.” No angel and no man in scripture ever said this, other than Jesus.

So who do we say Jesus is? "Blessed are you, _______ for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. " Or not.
 
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