coyowolf?

[au7126]

Watching GPB now about this topic. very interesting

 

[Browning Slayer]

I can remember when deer were very rare and turkey non-existent over most of this state. The landowners or government restocked the deer and turkey but I've never seen them with wolves. How did these wolves live all that time and no one ever saw one...I'm not sure ya'll are even saying you have seen a wolf yet. I don't know about the DNA but somewhere we got to have a wolf for all this cross breeding. Where there are wolves they kill cattle, horses, elk etc. not rabbits and mice...who lost a cow lately?

No one said there are wolves here.. Just a different Yote then you see west of the Mississippi.. There are tons of proven data linking the yotes to wolves from the great lakes region and we've posted it all on here. You should actually click on the links and learn something.

Ok.. We've provided you with tons and tons of scientific data and all you've provided is YOUR opinion. How about you back up your claims with some real data instead of "YOUR" thoughts..

 

[NCHillbilly]

You still haven't answered my question. Some humans have Neanderthal DNA yet do not have super human Neanderthal strength, why would we assume that just because a coyote has some wolf DNA in his background he would have super wolf strength or characteristics?

I have already answered your question, but you keep sticking your fingers in your ears so you can't hear the answer.

The wolf DNA in eastern coyotes shows up in their differences from western coyotes: Bigger size, tendency to hunt in packs, and common color variations. Those are all wolf traits, not coyote traits.

Wolf DNA does not make them a timber wolf, it makes them a unique canid that is different from anything else in North America, but apparently really similar to what used to be here in the Southeast to begin with. Not quite a wolf, not quite a coyote; but distinctly different from western coyotes.

There is a lot of scientific speculation that the red wolf is nothing but a long-standing wolf/coyote hybrid itself, that has stabilized over time into what it is today.

 

[oppthepop]

NCHILLBILLY I totally agree - just from personal experience in both parts of the country. Also, IMHO, if NICODEMUS has any input, I'm gonna lean his way as he is true woodsman from what i have read on his posts.
If I kill or trap any of the "questionable" canines after deer season is over I will gladly post some pics for reference.
Good discussion.

 

[Tider79]

Thanks for the links Jseph. Those were interesting reads.
A 64 lb female coyote. Wow.

 

[JohnK]

Interesting post. Here is a photo comparison of a red wolf and a coyote. The second photo is of a coyote I caught in April. I wondered then and now if it was a hybrid.

Well, Last year I shotgunned a larger male, estimate 40 lbs., that was a twin for c. rufus in your post and like I said, that black coyote is common on the land I hunt.
The only coyotes I've ever seen were in NW Georgia so I really don't know what the rest of them look like. The little bitty ones with skinny legs I call pups. We don't have much discussion about it between me, myself and I.

 

[Barebowyer]

Informative post and the longest one I have ever seen on GON without someone getting nasty. Very productive and mature, enjoying it

 

[elfiii]

So what would you call this female? I call it a coyote.

 

[antharper]

So what would you call this female? I call it a coyote.

I'd call it a good coyote , did u try your new call out ?

 

[JohnK]

Lookin' good

 

[elfiii]

I'd call it a good coyote , did u try your new call out ?

Not yet. I killed her back in October. Going to try and make it to the woods next weekend and give it a whirl.

 

[fishingtiger]

This has been a very interesting read! Saw this guy in my backyard. I think it is an eastern wulfshund

 

[shakey gizzard]

This has been a very interesting read! Saw this guy in my backyard. I think it is an eastern wulfshund

The alpha males always have those light colored manes!

 

[Browning Slayer]

So what would you call this female? I call it a coyote.

I would call it "dead"..

 

[ddd-shooter]

This is one I took a picture of here in Southwest Georgia. What is it?

Can we all take a min and appreciate this set-up?
Knowing a little of Nic's posts, I saw this one coming.
But still, an epic takedown for sure. Nothing like facts getting in the way of a good argument.
I've seen some coyotes up here in the mtns that made me say wow, but I didn't know why until today.

Thanks for the education, gentlemen.

 

[chehawknapper]

There are pure coyotes in the S. E. However, there are also many coyotes showing up with red wolf interbreeding. Where did it come from you ask. It has been my, Nick's and Jay's opinion since the late 70's early 80's that the "Florida Black Wolf - color variation of red wolf" never disappeared completely. US F&W trapped numerous animals in the early 70's in east Texas and western Louisiana thinking that was the only location left of pure red wolf. After genetic testing to eliminate the coyotes, these were the animals that started the captive red wolf breeding program which utilizes accredited zoos of which Chehaw is one. Records have been kept on every single animal in that breeding program. Several release areas have been tried. They have all failed except the one in coastal N.C. Because of an already established population of coyotes. In a normal healthy population of red wolves they would kill coyotes. But in an introduced population of few animals the mating urge will accept any of the same "family". The current problem with the N.C. Population is they were introduced on federal land which is poor habitat for the wolves. They have migrated into private lands creating problems with farms and ranchers (the original reason they were almost killed to extinction). Then a federal judge ruled it was unlawful to hunt coyotes because of the inability to discern the difference between red wolves and coyotes. The locals and the N.C. Wildlife officials exploded and everything has not been settled yet. I am convinced that the black brush wolves that show up quite regularly are proof positive that the Fl. Black Wolf that Bartrum spoke of never completely disappeared.

 

[NCHillbilly]

There are pure coyotes in the S. E. However, there are also many coyotes showing up with red wolf interbreeding. Where did it come from you ask. It has been my, Nick's and Jay's opinion since the late 70's early 80's that the "Florida Black Wolf - color variation of red wolf" never disappeared completely. US F&W trapped numerous animals in the early 70's in east Texas and western Louisiana thinking that was the only location left of pure red wolf. After genetic testing to eliminate the coyotes, these were the animals that started the captive red wolf breeding program which utilizes accredited zoos of which Chehaw is one. Records have been kept on every single animal in that breeding program. Several release areas have been tried. They have all failed except the one in coastal N.C. Because of an already established population of coyotes. In a normal healthy population of red wolves they would kill coyotes. But in an introduced population of few animals the mating urge will accept any of the same "family". The current problem with the N.C. Population is they were introduced on federal land which is poor habitat for the wolves. They have migrated into private lands creating problems with farms and ranchers (the original reason they were almost killed to extinction). Then a federal judge ruled it was unlawful to hunt coyotes because of the inability to discern the difference between red wolves and coyotes. The locals and the N.C. Wildlife officials exploded and everything has not been settled yet. I am convinced that the black brush wolves that show up quite regularly are proof positive that the Fl. Black Wolf that Bartrum spoke of never completely disappeared.

Ben, the NC program is also currently suffering big problems from the red wolves interbreeding with coyotes.

I agree with your theory, also.

 

[chehawknapper]

It is my understanding that where they were originally established on federal land there were not any coyotes. But, because it was such poor habitat, the wolves moved out of the area onto private land and then started interbreeding with coyotes. Once depredation of livestock started, the locals did not care if it was coyotes or wolves. A lawsuit was filed to stop hunting coyotes in the area because of the inability to distinguish the difference. A federal judge agreed which made the N.C. Wildlife to ask the Feds to declare the red wolf extinct in the wild which would then give them the green light to eradicate them. The Feds have refused to that and the saga continues. Chehaw is one of several locations that are actively involved with a very intensive breeding program to keep the genetic lines healthy. The big question for the future is where can these animals ever be released and remain pure genetically as well as not causing a problem with people/livestock?

 

[watermedic]

I killed this one this year. He weighed in at 44 lbs.

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[Core Lokt]

Got this pic at the house a couple yrs ago. Think it has wolf in it. Just S of Metcalf Ga.