Did you ever consider that Christianity as we know it is not simple. It is very complex--even though we might not want to admit it.

[gordon 2]

This tread is proving that>>>>

Christianity as we know it is not simple. It is very complex--even though we might not want to admit it.​

It is not simple on the individual level, on the inter-relational level nor at the Church-community-culture level. Although I do believe that all who contributed to the tread so far are mostly on the same faith page, all carry a different individual spiritual knapsack, secular and in some cases very differrent faith histories.

There seems to be, for me, a lack of stewardship within that would hold everything less complex, less confrontational in discussions with regards to fellowship and faith issues, opinions and spiritual life in general.

Often we are (and I am) the riders of a ghostly horse... I'm not sure why. What is simple for one is ripe with complexes for another. I'm not sure why.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

This tread is proving that>>>>

Christianity as we know it is not simple. It is very complex--even though we might not want to admit it.​

It is not simple on the individual level, on the inter-relational level nor at the Church-community-culture level.

The Gospel is simple yes

I think life can still be as simple and only as complicated as YOU want to make it

Maybe the Holy Spirit ministers in the faithful as the Church. . Maybe the Holy Spirit ministers in the schools of theology. Maybe the Holy Spirit ministers through the prophets. Maybe the Holy Spirit ministers trough prayers and fellowship.

Maybe the Holy Spirit cares that you are cleaned up from your once sloppiness in your fellowship.and again that you sometimes come as you are sloppy and untidy, talk your ear off and cryptic in dialogue even....
So maybe a forum needs specific directives and additional heading regards differing fellowship.

 

[Israel]

Beyond this, or in addition to it, when one factors in matters of motives and intents assigned to the outworking of thought/consciousness as "ideas in motion" via speech, acts...all doings...and consider these things of motive as no less than real to themselves, as no less "real things" even as that which they identify themselves by as selves (I am a very very kind self!...a patient self...an honest self...a christian self...ha ha ha)...then the matters are compounded accordingly.

All in all a wiser might say the self is in a continual striving to manifest itself as "real" even (who has been married?) against [all] other selves it does not and cannot deem of equal weight of reality. If only the balance were equal in ourselves in all our demand of "prove yourself to me!" and turned to an inward query where the man is pinioned himself upon "prove yourself to me".

He would have to turn elsewhere to know...who he is. What he is. Even that "he is". Unable to prove his own being to himself.

 

[gordon 2]

Beyond this, or in addition to it, when one factors in matters of motives and intents assigned to the outworking of thought/consciousness as "ideas in motion" via speech, acts...all doings...and consider these things of motive as no less than real to themselves, as no less "real things" even as that which they identify themselves by as selves (I am a very very kind self!...a patient self...an honest self...a christian self...ha ha ha)...then the matters are compounded accordingly.

All in all a wiser might say the self is in a continual striving to manifest itself as "real" even (who has been married?) against [all] other selves it does not and cannot deem of equal weight of reality. If only the balance were equal in ourselves in all our demand of "prove yourself to me!" and turned to an inward query where the man is pinioned himself upon "prove yourself to me".

He would have to turn elsewhere to know...who he is. What he is. Even that "he is". Unable to prove his own being to himself.

The inward query or questioning that there is better in reality or in life for the self due our hopes for the belief in God promises, hope in the great prophecies that the blind will see and that in ourselves there is ever a greater capacity to love others and God which we in our own selves know is a limited love but one day will be life all in all, so....

The calculated and periodic stabs at revival in and out and the re-imagining of the Church itself, the reassessment of our own lives in Christ and His in us, is it not a calling from within and a calling to fellowship not that we fall short of the Glory of God, but that there is ever a better ground to stand on for ourselves from which to be fed by God. I know that for myself I'm not unlike the little tax collector getting in the way of Jesus. I do this because it works for me. Christ invites himself to my shacks...

Much more than our commonality of egos selfish and giving there is Christ calling, "calling you and me. Come home." I am, we are, like the prodigal son going home, on the road. And so I am, we are all inwardly not there yet. We are unknown quantities and limited in capacities.

Therefore we have places to rest our feet which are different one the other. One rests his in the Kingdom, another in the Church, another in Scripture, another in the sacraments, another in reason another in the revelation of what was once mystery.

In conversation one uses a word to mean something global which is understood as being local to another and vis-a-versa. We are wonderers in a desert which is in ourselves. We stop at our wells, each other's, where we recognize there is some water to the degrees we know it can be turned to wine. And were we know in the other there is water to be turned to wine, that there is wine, we know Christ is there inside another who like me lacks capacity to make the desert wells give only wine.


Mountains surround us from each other though we are to Christ and the viewpoints are many. Never the less" Christ come" and let the children be baptized and the adults too. Let us share wines...in the wholesomeness of the wedding...even though for now married life is never at all what it will be.

So I am a tax collector and a payer of taxes and a pilgrim and I define myself in these works which I do admit I think about.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Beyond this, or in addition to it, when one factors in matters of motives and intents assigned to the outworking of thought/consciousness as "ideas in motion" via speech, acts...all doings...and consider these things of motive as no less than real to themselves, as no less "real things" even as that which they identify themselves by as selves (I am a very very kind self!...a patient self...an honest self...a christian self...ha ha ha)...then the matters are compounded accordingly.

All in all a wiser might say the self is in a continual striving to manifest itself as "real" even (who has been married?) against [all] other selves it does not and cannot deem of equal weight of reality. If only the balance were equal in ourselves in all our demand of "prove yourself to me!" and turned to an inward query where the man is pinioned himself upon "prove yourself to me".

He would have to turn elsewhere to know...who he is. What he is. Even that "he is". Unable to prove his own being to himself.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

The inward query or questioning that there is better in reality or in life for the self due our hopes for the belief in God promises, hope in the great prophecies that the blind will see and that in ourselves there is ever a greater capacity to love others and God which we in our own selves know is a limited love but one day will be life all in all, so....

The calculated and periodic stabs at revival in and out and the re-imagining of the Church itself, the reassessment of our own lives in Christ and His in us, is it not a calling from within and a calling to fellowship not that we fall short of the Glory of God, but that there is ever a better ground to stand on for ourselves from which to be fed by God. I know that for myself I'm not unlike the little tax collector getting in the way of Jesus. I do this because it works for me. Christ invites himself to my shacks...

Much more than our commonality of egos selfish and giving there is Christ calling, "calling you and me. Come home." I am, we are, like the prodigal son going home, on the road. And so I am, we are all inwardly not there yet. We are unknown quantities and limited in capacities.

Therefore we have places to rest our feet which are different one the other. One rests his in the Kingdom, another in the Church, another in Scripture, another in the sacraments, another in reason another in the revelation of what was once mystery.

In conversation one uses a word to mean something global which is understood as being local to another and vis-a-versa. We are wonderers in a desert which is in ourselves. We stop at our wells, each other's, where we recognize there is some water to the degrees we know it can be turned to wine. And were we know in the other there is water to be turned to wine, that there is wine, we know Christ is there inside another who like me lacks capacity to make the desert wells give only wine.


Mountains surround us from each other though we are to Christ and the viewpoints are many. Never the less" Christ come" and let the children be baptized and the adults too. Let us share wines...in the wholesomeness of the wedding...even though for now married life is never at all what it will be.

So I am a tax collector and a payer of taxes and a pilgrim and I define myself in these works which I do admit I think about.

 

[brutally honest]

Posts 85 and 86 would be appropriate responses to at least 50% of all posts in the Spiritual forum.

LOL

 

[gordon 2]

I agree there is better taxidermy or prayer out there than what I can do. Have mercy on me. My walk so far is the best I can do.

 

[Israel]

WWJD or "What Would Jesus Do?" as having worked its way into general (and certainly "christian") conversation as a sort of healthy prescription for a soul's caution to a more sober considering is not without some benefit. But it is not an end in itself if looked to as best practice...or final word in matters of our direction/discipling.

If left unattended or undirected itself (as an end in itself, even a presumed "good end" of itself) it can, if undisciplined, lead to a vain reliance upon imaginations. But this we have to learn.

The end of faith is seeing the Lord "as He is" for our movement in faith to faith, and glory to glory. The faith of the son of God (Jesus Christ Himself) is such that His confession remains "I do only what I see the Father doing". It is present (in every sense of that word) tense activity of spirit and not left to the imagination.

But this is not meant as reproval, but is encouragement. For each and every one of us. Need I say myself included? (I am made able to say it.)

Obviously (is it obvious?) attached to, or inherent in what appears instruction "What Would Jesus Do?" is a situation-ality, a response to circumstance by which it would appear a healthy consideration of WWJD is seen as "what would Jesus do in this circumstance". Again, this is not unhealthy; for calling to mind the Lord in any circumstance must have benefit. God forbid my setting of stones where there are none.

But here, might we agree(?), we are always in circumstance. Is it not undeniable? But we must be awakened to this, and such help is ours through Christ to such awakening. Even (especially?) through His body and its working of members. Even a growth and building up by what each member supplies as directed by a Sovereign head who fits all together of His body according to such sovereign work of grace.

"We" do not direct the head. "We" may (and are so encouraged) to present appeal, (ask, seek, knock) but even that we discover is a motion initiated by, and provided to the member as a grace from the Head.

So God forbid any take a stand upon themselves as being a "better" or more diligent "asker, seeker, knocker". All we have is of gift of, and by, grace. And no where is this remembering of more importance (nor of less than total benefit to us) than when we could be inclined to think we are doing a "good" thing. Even like "preaching the gospel".

And do any of us doubt we may often encounter that inclination of thinking? Often all it takes is a slight scratch against our own "good" intentions to discover what is working. And yes! God has appointed these as necessary, when necessary, for our "waking up". We are always in circumstance.

But our Lord? The Father of whom He bore (bears) witness? Is He reactionary? Think soberly. Is He not He who declares the end from the beginning, and all we may perceive as "in between"? Even all and every circumstance that we may perceive as "nodal"...but is in truth all in/on the continuum of God's workings...even preordained workings? The beginning holding all as to end, the end revealing all as to beginnings. And even if, or when, we touch the truth of any circumstance (as to us appears "particular") we are awakened to being very much in a river without beginning nor end.

We repeat things as well we should, but not to the mere end of repetitions. There is a working to speaking, in speaking, just as there is in a thinking upon that is not ordained "of us" but is a gift of grace to us, and as for us that we may learn the joy of sharing in truth...as our Lord would have our joy...even full.

There is a great gulf (yet made for us simple) to cross. The complexity of lies whose abyss seems to always threaten to a swallowing and by which we may invent many devices for escape (hence our own love of complexity that must be unraveled, and is in, and by, Christ) we may mistake for His being complex with us...or worse..."for" us. If we find a ducky and dodginess it would behoove us to look at where its true residence lay. As the apostle says here:

But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

No! We are just learning in whom (and where) the duckiness and dodginess lay. And our great need (and whose even perception of that great need) is of grace. And be persuaded (again, as only by grace) to press on. Even to a promise of single eyed seeing.

Do you not find it at least interesting that the first apostles given to seeing (having manifest before them) Jesus Christ as risen among them, an "event" (the resurrection) in time appointed to their time of being in the earth (we think it often "mind blowing" do we not?) go on to understand that such as appeared "event" or circumstance, or situation, is actually, (and indeed) the lamb slain from the foundation of the world...and as another put it:

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Their being "delivered" out of the constraints of time (and the circumstances it can deceptively "highlight" by being taken advantage of by another...even our "own" imaginings) to see what is from the beginning. So that even their mind blowing witness of a thing in time...as event...has led them to truth far deeper. Understanding that events/circumstance/situation are all for our benefit to learn to not be constrained by, or worse, deceived in them.

That we may see Him who is from the beginning.

What is Jesus doing?


As always.


All things well.

And whatever we have (are appointed) to pass through to see Him as He is, is not only worth it and barely worth the mention...except as acknowledgement to God's glory that He causes all to work to His good end. And has even (is even doing so) from the beginning.

My my my...do you not find rejoicing in Jesus answer to His own question?

I have no doubt at all that I (and every other man, woman, child one may ever possibly know, even of fathers, mothers, wives, brothers, sisters, and children) will leave us extremely sad and miserable, otherwise.

Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

Bless you Lord Jesus for answering. And how.

Every man shall kiss his lips that giveth a right answer.

 

[gordon 2]

and *he* is the propitiation for our sins; but not for ours alone, but also for the whole world.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him

Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

1 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.

I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness— 26 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord’s people. 27 To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

28 He is the one we proclaim, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone fully mature in Christ. 29 To this end I strenuously contend with all the energy Christ so powerfully works in me.

 

[gordon 2]

Seek the LORD while He may be found; call on Him while He is near. 7Let the wicked man forsake his own way and the unrighteous man his own thoughts; let him return to the LORD, that He may have compassion, and to our God, for He will freely pardon.…