Divorce and remarriage of Christians?

[GeauxLSU]

I said in my 40 years...

My father-in-law, who was Catholic, was excommunicated for divorcing an unfaithful wife back in the late '40's.

I ain't been on the planet that long brother. Like I said, hen's teeth. I'm sorry it happened to him (and that is very odd considering scripture and the obvious state of divorce today) but extremely glad he found a church home!
Again, I have never personally seen anyone 'excommunicated' in my lifetime. Though I've no doubt it's happened. It's just like every other church I presume, people just generally leave if they have such a strong disagreement.

 

[Mechanicaldawg]

Phil,

Just to be clear, I do not doubt that it is very rare these days. Just making an observation as to how things have changed.

 

[GeauxLSU]

Phil,

Just to be clear, I do not doubt that it is very rare these days. Just making an observation as to how things have changed.

I know! Some people actually wear shorts to church now!!!

Sorry, I'll go stand in the corner.....

 

[groundhawg]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlmathis123
My Church of God of Prophecy pastor told us he was whole heartily against it and would not perform the wedding (regardless of the reason they divorced) and that she still needed to reconcile with her Ex husband.

That pastor needs to read his Bible.

SBG,

I sure do not understnd the part about the pastor wanting the exwife to reconcile with her husband but as far as the pastor not performing the wedding he may of had no choice. Several churches will not allow the pastor to perform a wedding where one or both have been divorced.

Not going to add my thoughts since others have already cover most of this subject and done it better than I can. But do not be to harsh on the pastor since his hands may have been tied - at least - as far as performing the weeding service.

 

[Jim Thompson]

I dont care one way or the other, if folks are believers, yet they cannot work out their marital problems and then get remarried, so be it. As long as they stay believers and continue to follow the way their particular religion tells them they should follow then they will be just fine

 

[Mechanicaldawg]

I know! Some people actually wear shorts to church now!!!

Sorry, I'll go stand in the corner.....

Now that's funny rite thar now!

 

[ramsey]

Post #19 and #20 sum this up pretty well for all sides.

 

[ilikembig]

Well, I know you probably don't want to hear my opinion but I'm gonna give it anyway....

God allowed in His law for divorce. He said His law was not to be changed. Jesus changed it. That's why you have this problem of confusion.

Wow, that's probably one of the shortest posts on religious discussion I've ever made!!!

Hugs!
Kerri (divorced and remarried!)

I am just curious - What was it that Jesus changed?

 

[StriperAddict]

With Matt 5:28, Jesus didn't 'change' the laws of marriage & divorce, he just got to the HEART of the problem...

whoso looketh on a woman to lust has comitted adultery IN HIS HEART

FYI, Jesus no doubt considered what Job said...
"I made a covenant with mine eyes; why then should I think upon a maid?" (Job 31:1)

Adultery clearly begins in the HEART. I think Jesus made this point w/o bashing divorced couples but opened a door for greater understanding.

Sorry if you didn't see that.

 

[SBG]

Jesus changed the Law and said no divorce or remarriage was allowed.


Hugs!
Kerri

That is not what he said at all. He said that because of the hardness of the Hebrew's hearts, Moses suffered(appeased) them to put away their wives. This was in contradiction of His perfect example of Adam and Eve.

Matthew 19:9 reads, "And I say unto you , Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery

This is Jesus speaking. How can he say "no" divorce was allowed when right here in this verse he gives the exception which allows it?

 

[Dudley Do-Wrong]

God allowed in His law for divorce. He said His law was not to be changed. Jesus changed it.

Kerri, you really need to provide Biblical reference to your assertions. To merely make a statement like that without any reference is very disingenious. I personally don't mind you asserting your beliefs, but if you have nothing supporting them, then how can you expect anyone to respect your opinions?

 

[ilikembig]

Deu 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give [it] in her hand, and send her out of his house.

I don't really believe this can be used as a relevant source then, this appears to be used out of context. And according to the old testament uncleanness means...
1) nakedness, nudity, shame, pudenda

a) pudenda (implying shameful exposure)

b) nakedness of a thing, indecency, improper behaviour

c) exposed, undefended (fig.)

This sounds more like adultery( the meanings and the quote), and we all know what the bible says about that.

 

[SBG]

I'm not going to get into a debate about this because I don't want to be accused of derailing a thread again

Why stop now? You already did what you intended.

 

[Cward]

I think this along with ALOT of other things in "Religion" is a bunch of bologna! I think man tries to stick his nose in Gods business WAY too much and force their own "beliefs" on others. We look through a glass darkly.

See what I mean.

 

[Dudley Do-Wrong]

Keri, you have raised an interesting issue, but your fallacy lies in picking and choosing certain Scriptures to support your opinion without giving equal consideration to the rest of Scripture.

You start with Deuteronomy 24:1-2 and you made a keen observation and it is an integral part of this discussion:

I'm not going to argue over what "uncleanness" means either because even some Jewish sects disagree on what exactly it means ('uncleanness' is not a good translation of the actual Hebrew word used).

The exact Hebrew word used for “uncleanness” in this passage is `ervah. I can find no direct interpretation and I would just guess that the term “uncleanness” is the best English word that can apply, I believe the word “indecency” is sometimes used. As you pointed out:

either because even some Jewish sects disagree on what exactly it means

Here lies a problem as you correctly point out. Because different Jewish sects apply their own definition, a lot of confusion was created. On the liberal side, a man could divorce his wife for almost anything, on the conservative side, it applied to sexual impurity/immorality. Well, what actually happened was that divorce for any number or reasons was happening.

Fast forward to Malachi:
Malachi 2:14-16
Why has God abandoned us?" you cry. I'll tell you why; it is because the Lord has seen your treachery in divorcing your wives who have been faithful to you through the years, the companions you promised to care for and keep. You were united to your wife by the Lord. In God's wise plan, when you married, the two of you became one person in His sight. And what does He want? Godly children from your union. Therefore guard your passions! Keep faith with the wife of your youth. For the Lord, the God of Israel, says He hates divorce and cruel men. Therefore control your passions—let there be no divorcing of your wives.
Wait a minute, does this contradict Deuteronomy? It says “let there be no divorcing of your wives”, no stipulations or exceptions. How do you resolve this Keri?
The Hebrew word for "hate" used here is ane', (saw-nay') and has the idea of "detest." God detests divorce. Has God changed His mind on this over the years?

Malachi 3:6
For I am the LORD, I do not change; Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.

Now, let’s go back to the beginning, what did God want. Generally speaking, most folks agree that Moses “penned” Genesis as well as Deuteronomy, that has been accepted by Jews and Christians alike. So, there should be no disparity between Genesis and Deuteronomy.

God created a man and a woman, not a man and multiple women or a woman and multiple men.
Genesis 1:27
So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

God never intended a “separation” in a marriage.
Genesis 2:24
Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

As far as adultery goes, what did God think about it?
Leviticus 20:10
'The man who commits adultery with another man's wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death.

OK, did God absolutely forbid divorce? In my opinion I would say no. He constantly expressed His displeasure concerning divorce, why else would there be so much Scripture devoted to it? What he did forbid was adultery and this is one of the things Jesus was expressing.

Matthew 19:5-6
And that a man should leave his father and mother, and be forever united to his wife. The two shall become one—no longer two, but one! And no man may divorce what God has joined together.

Matthew 5:32
But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to commit adultery, and anyone who marries a woman so divorced commits adultery.

Jesus also had to remind the Pharisees of God’s word:

Matthew 19:3
The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?"
Matthew 19:4
And He answered and said to them, "Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning 'made them male and female,' (Reference Genesis 1:27)

But, the discussion goes on:
Matthew 19:7-9
They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" He said to them, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.

I find no contradiction, I find no “changing of the law” as you indicate. Instead, what I plainly see is that Jesus corrected the errors of the Pharisees and scribes.

 

[SBG]

Keri, you have raised an interesting issue, but your fallacy lies in picking and choosing certain Scriptures to support your opinion without giving equal consideration to the rest of Scripture.

You start with Deuteronomy 24:1-2 and you made a keen observation and it is an integral part of this discussion:
The exact Hebrew word used for “uncleanness” in this passage is `ervah. I can find no direct interpretation and I would just guess that the term “uncleanness” is the best English word that can apply, I believe the word “indecency” is sometimes used. As you pointed out:

Here lies a problem as you correctly point out. Because different Jewish sects apply their own definition, a lot of confusion was created. On the liberal side, a man could divorce his wife for almost anything, on the conservative side, it applied to sexual impurity/immorality. Well, what actually happened was that divorce for any number or reasons was happening.

Fast forward to Malachi:
Malachi 2:14-16
Why has God abandoned us?" you cry. I'll tell you why; it is because the Lord has seen your treachery in divorcing your wives who have been faithful to you through the years, the companions you promised to care for and keep. You were united to your wife by the Lord. In God's wise plan, when you married, the two of you became one person in His sight. And what does He want? Godly children from your union. Therefore guard your passions! Keep faith with the wife of your youth. For the Lord, the God of Israel, says He hates divorce and cruel men. Therefore control your passions—let there be no divorcing of your wives.
Wait a minute, does this contradict Deuteronomy? It says “let there be no divorcing of your wives”, no stipulations or exceptions. How do you resolve this Keri?
The Hebrew word for "hate" used here is ane', (saw-nay') and has the idea of "detest." God detests divorce. Has God changed His mind on this over the years?

Malachi 3:6
For I am the LORD, I do not change; Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.

Now, let’s go back to the beginning, what did God want. Generally speaking, most folks agree that Moses “penned” Genesis as well as Deuteronomy, that has been accepted by Jews and Christians alike. So, there should be no disparity between Genesis and Deuteronomy.

God created a man and a woman, not a man and multiple women or a woman and multiple men.
Genesis 1:27
So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

God never intended a “separation” in a marriage.
Genesis 2:24
Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

As far as adultery goes, what did God think about it?
Leviticus 20:10
'The man who commits adultery with another man's wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death.

OK, did God absolutely forbid divorce? In my opinion I would say no. He constantly expressed His displeasure concerning divorce, why else would there be so much Scripture devoted to it? What he did forbid was adultery and this is one of the things Jesus was expressing.

Matthew 19:5-6
And that a man should leave his father and mother, and be forever united to his wife. The two shall become one—no longer two, but one! And no man may divorce what God has joined together.

Matthew 5:32
But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to commit adultery, and anyone who marries a woman so divorced commits adultery.

Jesus also had to remind the Pharisees of God’s word:

Matthew 19:3
The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?"
Matthew 19:4
And He answered and said to them, "Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning 'made them male and female,' (Reference Genesis 1:27)

But, the discussion goes on:
Matthew 19:7-9
They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" He said to them, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.

I find no contradiction, I find no “changing of the law” as you indicate. Instead, what I plainly see is that Jesus corrected the errors of the Pharisees and scribes.

Excellent post David.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Cward]

Well if that ain't the Pot callin' the Kettle black!!

How about you apply that SAME train of thought to YOUR understanding of Isaiah 7:14? A bit of a hypocracy, don't ya think?

Still love ya!!!

Hugs!
Kerri

 

[Dudley Do-Wrong]

How about you apply that SAME train of thought to YOUR understanding of Isaiah 7:14? A bit of a hypocracy, don't ya think?

Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

What are you talking about??

Would you like to start a different thread?