Jim Ammons
Senior Member
Am I missing something here? I see the two hot legs from breakers in panel. I do not see where a ground wire is attached to panel. Someone show it to me.
Welcome Guest!
? For Electricians. I’m stumped.
- Thread starter sleepr71
- Start date
- Status
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
That's what I was trying to figure out, the path of the dryers ground wire to the neutral bus or at least the ground rod in the main panel. Since it's also being used as a neutral.
Probably outside the image on the right side of panel.
Doug B.
Senior Member
In a three wire service, that is no longer acceptable by NEC, the neutrals and grounds are all on the same ground/neutral bar and it is bonded to the box. In a four wire service, which is now required by code, the neutrals and grounds must be separated. All the grounds go to the ground bar that screwed to the panel so everything that needs to be bonded is then indeed grounded. All the neutrals go to the neutral bar which is insulated from the panel so that the neutrals and grounds remain separated. The reason for this is so that the neutral has to be the conductor finishing the circuit and the ground can never be the conductor to finish the circuit.
So, to answer your question, yes the ground from the dryer receptacle in the OP's scenario is connected to the ground/neutral bar and they are not separated.
oldfella1962
Senior Member
"All the neutrals go to the neutral bar which is insulated from the panel so that the neutrals and grounds remain separated. The reason for this is so that the neutral has to be the conductor finishing the circuit and the ground can never be the conductor to finish the circuit." - Doug B
BEST explanation of ground/neutral I have ever heard, and I used to teach "basic electronics" along with the actual equipment that uses said electronic principles and I never truly understood what I taught or what was taught to me. Granted we were on a fast-paced learning trajectory, but it would have been useful.
That said, I don't want to muddy the waters here, but it could help solve future problems of a similar nature: what is a "return line?" You see "return line" on electronic schematics & wiring diagrams, but nobody has ever been able to explain to me the science behind it. Granted I'm not an engineer just a tech, so if the wire is broken, I fix it. But can you define or explain the "return line" term?
BEST explanation of ground/neutral I have ever heard, and I used to teach "basic electronics" along with the actual equipment that uses said electronic principles and I never truly understood what I taught or what was taught to me. Granted we were on a fast-paced learning trajectory, but it would have been useful. That said, I don't want to muddy the waters here, but it could help solve future problems of a similar nature: what is a "return line?"
You see "return line" on electronic schematics & wiring diagrams, but nobody has ever been able to explain to me the science behind it. Granted I'm not an engineer just a tech, so if the wire is broken, I fix it. But can you define or explain the "return line" term?
notnksnemor
The Great and Powerful Oz
I wasn't aware of this change, but I have been retired for a while now and not really kept up with NEC changes.
Did NFPA 70E adopt this for industrial applications too?
I will get a better pic later today..?
oldfella1962
Senior Member
That's the fun (sort of) when it comes to troubleshooting - finding/eliminating what the problem is not.
ilbcnu
Senior Member
Check the continuity of the cord
baddave
Senior Member
to begin with a dryer doesn't need a neutral or a ground to function. it's 240v. a ground is for over current protection, safety from being accidentally energized, and lightning escape path. If you had a mother board or indicator lights that required a neutral then i apologize but "I" have never seen that on a dryer. being that your legs are so inbalanced I would bet you have an issue under ground. You said the dryer was fed underground???? something very similar happened with my well a couple yrs ago. UF cable somehow developed burnt 2 conductors. see, you can sometimes read voltage but it needs to be a strong voltage capable of carrying current. also had happen on my tractor- read 12V but wouldn't turn over. I had a loose ground connection. I'd bet money that's your issue
baddave
Senior Member
In addition to what I just posted, check everything above ground that you can. Take the wires off the breaker and check voltage there. If it reads the same,or very close, then you have an issue right there, ez pz. If you read like 125v at each leg to ground and 240v between the legs then I'm guessing you have a burnt current carrying conductor underground. If so it will probably eventually burn all the way through
baddave
Senior Member
that meter may well have an insulation test mode. It don't look like it. If so try that
Last edited:
Wire Nut
Senior Member
The neutral is the “return line”. It’s a current carrying grounded conductor that is returning the unused current back to the point of main disconnect. At that point it goes to the ground"All the neutrals go to the neutral bar which is insulated from the panel so that the neutrals and grounds remain separated. The reason for this is so that the neutral has to be the conductor finishing the circuit and the ground can never be the conductor to finish the circuit." - Doug B
That said, I don't want to muddy the waters here, but it could help solve future problems of a similar nature: what is a "return line?"
Did not get much done today. Grabbed a new receptacle, and dryer cord. Replaced the receptacle… No difference.replace the cord… No difference. Took the cover off the breaker box… And I see nothing loose or corroded, but just for grins and giggles…I loosened and checked every wire connection. I didn’t see any corrosion or dirt where ants or anything had got into it. I do not see any damage to the wire from the breaker to the receptacle. It came up a pretty strong thunderstorm so I called it a day. I’ll have to revisit Saturday. I think the problem lies in the main breaker box, or the wire from the breaker box to the outbuilding. There has been no dirt work, yardwork with a tractor or anything… So not sure what would’ve happened to the wire underground.
Did you identify the 10 gauge ground/neutral wire from the panel to the receptacle? It doesn’t show in the picture you posted.
How far is it from the panel to the receptacle? What kind of cable is it?
baddave
Senior Member
i had no explanation for my issue either. wire had been underground for more than 40 yrs. maybe it was nicked and took 40 yrs to lose it's integrity. do what I said
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
I thought all the controls and the drum motor on most US dryers were 120 volts? Wasn't the purpose of the code change due to NEC not wanting dryers to use the ground for a neutral? Thus the code change to the 4 wires with a separate ground and neutral.
Last edited:
Here’s some info from google ?
https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/31640/can-a-dryer-receptacle-be-wired-without-a-neutral
https://www.how-to-wire-it.com/wire-a-dryer-outlet.html
ok
In
The panel u gave the 2 hot to 2 breakers side by side. One from each leg to the panel. There’s a 3 insulated wire that’s the neutral it goes to a bar with screw ins like the ground.
The ground is the green or bare copper to a lug with screw ins.
The ground is a green wire. The neutral is white the othe two are hot. Red blue black yellow or what ever.
Now if this escapes you call a electrician!
https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/31640/can-a-dryer-receptacle-be-wired-without-a-neutral
https://www.how-to-wire-it.com/wire-a-dryer-outlet.html
ok
In
The panel u gave the 2 hot to 2 breakers side by side. One from each leg to the panel. There’s a 3 insulated wire that’s the neutral it goes to a bar with screw ins like the ground.
The ground is the green or bare copper to a lug with screw ins.
The ground is a green wire. The neutral is white the othe two are hot. Red blue black yellow or what ever.
Now if this escapes you call a electrician!
- Status
Similar threads
