Gandhi

[gordon 2]

I know some Hindu Indians who would not agree about what a great man he was. My own opinion is withheld, as I am not as knowledgable about it as my Hindu Indian friends. They don't speak very highly of him, at all. They feel he sold out the entire nation to the English.

Yes. That dynamic would be in play in any nation under the heals of the british empire, but also Gandhi was a South African.

 

[TTom]

Gandhi as a South African, hmmm I know the legality and the work of that part of his life a little. Born India, went to England for college and law school, then to South Africa, and then back to India.
Hard for me to consider him a South African, even though legally he immigrated there from England.

It would be interesting to hear how Ted's Hindu friends back the "sell out" position. Of course we usually hear only part and a western biased history of the man.

Nothing I have read would support a sell out to the British position.
But I haven't read everything. But then again I wouldn't take everything someone from India said as truth either,I mean we have folks here in US who believe all sorts of conspiracy theories about our own Government figures.

 

[ted_BSR]

Gandhi as a South African, hmmm I know the legality and the work of that part of his life a little. Born India, went to England for college and law school, then to South Africa, and then back to India.
Hard for me to consider him a South African, even though legally he immigrated there from England.

It would be interesting to hear how Ted's Hindu friends back the "sell out" position. Of course we usually hear only part and a western biased history of the man.

Nothing I have read would support a sell out to the British position.
But I haven't read everything. But then again I wouldn't take everything someone from India said as truth either,I mean we have folks here in US who believe all sorts of conspiracy theories about our own Government figures.

I absolutely agree with you TTom. I have only had a couple of discussions with a couple of Indians about Gandhi, so I have a very limited sample group. They were real Indians that had been in the states for just a few years. Here is a little context about one of the discussions.

A gun control discussion led me to mention Gandhi’s stance on guns. It was hindsight on his part, but he said something to the effect that the worst thing the British did to the Indian people was to deprive them of their right to own firearms. My buddy suddenly got this really angry look on his face, and said "very strong expletive" Gandhi, he sold out the entire nation of India! He did nothing to stop the English from taking over, and preached passiveness and submission. He was the worst thing to ever happen to my nation! That guy was a traitor!

I was pretty shocked, and apologized for upsetting him. He said he was not angry with me, but he hates how most westerners have this idea of Gandhi, the great man of peace, and that he was some kind of great super being, when he was really just a self serving intellectual elitist.

Wow. That was the first time I had heard anyone speak that way about Gandhi, but not the last.

 

[TTom]

Ted I have to laugh at the idea that Gandhi did nothing to prevent the British from taking over. Especially since they had "owned" India for how many decades before Gandhi was born? (Mid 1800's)

Peaceful protests, and civil disobedience are in many ways virtues, but as with anything carried to an extreme those virtues can become a vice in themselves.

Ghandi was not strong enough to hold India together as he dreamed of doing. His willingness to negotiate for a unified India is what got him assassinated. And of course assassinations tend to create martyrs. But he was able, before the end, to shame the British into agreeing to leave India, and to do so without firing a single shot in anger against them.

Self serving? hmmm that is going to take a bit of work, although not impossible, to make the case that Gandhi served himself in that his goal was to mark himself as the hero of India, or a great saint of sorts. I guess we have multiple religions where the preachers are self serving in the manner in which they do their work. Seeking to gain strength and political power through their work. So you could argue the case effectively with a bit of work.

 

[ted_BSR]

Ted I have to laugh at the idea that Gandhi did nothing to prevent the British from taking over. Especially since they had "owned" India for how many decades before Gandhi was born? (Mid 1800's)

Peaceful protests, and civil disobedience are in many ways virtues, but as with anything carried to an extreme those virtues can become a vice in themselves.

Ghandi was not strong enough to hold India together as he dreamed of doing. His willingness to negotiate for a unified India is what got him assassinated. And of course assassinations tend to create martyrs. But he was able, before the end, to shame the British into agreeing to leave India, and to do so without firing a single shot in anger against them.

Self serving? hmmm that is going to take a bit of work, although not impossible, to make the case that Gandhi served himself in that his goal was to mark himself as the hero of India, or a great saint of sorts. I guess we have multiple religions where the preachers are self serving in the manner in which they do their work. Seeking to gain strength and political power through their work. So you could argue the case effectively with a bit of work.

I respect your comments. The opinions I gave are not my own, I don't know that much about Gandhi. I was just relating how one Indian described how he felt, and I was paraphrasing, but I think I got it mostly right.

 

[TTom]

Oh no I got that it was you relaying someone else's words.