Invalid baptisms

[brutally honest]

“A Catholic priest in Phoenix has resigned from his position after a church investigation found he had been incorrectly performing baptisms over his 20-year career — rendering the rite invalid for thousands of people, accordingto Bishop Thomas Olmsted of the Diocese of Phoenix.”

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/catholic-priest-andres-arango-baptisms-invalid-phoenix-church/

 

[kmckinnie]

It’s not there fault. Maybe everything will be ok on judgment day.

 

[GeorgiaBob]

I read that yesterday, then looked at the response from the Vatican. All I can say is that, while I can agree that it is the Lord that sanctifies and protects the person who is Baptized, I simply cannot accept that our God would refuse that protection to anyone simply because some fool of a priest used a plural instead singular pronoun!

John probably spoke in Aramaic instead of Hebrew when he Baptized Jesus in the Jordan, but I doubt that God was bothered by the less formal language. For context, spoken Aramaic does not use pronouns so it wouldn't have been an issue 2,000 years ago. If the Roman Catholic Church is so caught up in one ENGLISH pronoun that they choose to claim that every Baptism by one priest is invalid, why don't they invalidate every Baptism ever, except those completed exclusively in Aramaic?

I got no problem with the RC Church dumping the priest. But I sincerely believe that the RC church has bigger problems than pronouns used in Baptism!

Idiocracy in vestments ! !

 

[Spotlite]

1. “Father Arango misstated one word: "We baptize" should have been "I baptize.”


2. "The issue with using 'We' is that it is not the community that baptizes a person, rather, it is Christ, and Him alone, who presides at all of the sacraments, and so it is Christ Jesus who baptizes."

Their logic is flawed. If they really believe that #1 was an issue because of #2 - unless Arango is Christ he shouldn’t even use “I”.

 

[StriperAddict]

I've found that the One who immersed me into the Spirt of Christ had me enjoy Him in the celebration of water ... later.
An understanding of Rom 6:3-5 also came later, yielding peace, hope.

The "I" was the washer, Jesus Christ.
The "we" were the splashers of whom I'm grateful for nonetheless!

 

[OwlRNothing]

Salvation isn't tied to baptism. I wouldn't expect the Catholic church to understand that though. So much of their beliefs are tied into dogma, ritual and man-made technicalities. It's a shame, really. Everything is written down, plain as day - but humanity has always found a way to make things concerning God more complicated than they actually are in reality. The Bible clearly says that Jesus is the way, not "baptism" is the way.

 

[gemcgrew]

Christ will not be disappointed.

 

[Madman]

1. “Father Arango misstated one word: "We baptize" should have been "I baptize.”


2. "The issue with using 'We' is that it is not the community that baptizes a person, rather, it is Christ, and Him alone, who presides at all of the sacraments, and so it is Christ Jesus who baptizes."

Their logic is flawed. If they really believe that #1 was an issue because of #2 - unless Arango is Christ he shouldn’t even use “I”.

If his orders are valid then he is acting In persona Christi.

 

[1eyefishing]

Question from the layman (non-Catholic):
For the victims of the now unofficial baptism, is there ANY facet of life that would be affected by this other than their standing with the church?
I don't get why the fault is not forgiven and let the victims go on with their lives. Instead they have to be rebaptized.
I don't get it.

 

[Madman]

The baptism is Christ’s to give, not ours.

Lot of good studies on the topic, Studies as old as the Church.

 

[Madman]

But back to the actual baptism, it is easily rectified. Anyone can baptize.

 

[NCHillbilly]

So I guess all them folks will go to Hades now?

 

[Throwback]

A good example of religion getting in the way

 

[Spotlite]

A good example of religion getting in the way

Off topic but saw Popcorn as your Avatar. Met the dude a couple times. My Dad built two cabins in Maggie Valley, one Asheville and in one Boone. I had no idea at the time he was “famous”, though.

 

[gemcgrew]

So I guess all them folks will go to Hades now?

Some of them are already there.

 

[Nicodemus]

Some of them are already there.

How do you know this?

 

[gemcgrew]

How do you know this?

It is inherent in that system of religion, but your knowledge of the system would have to be far greater than this one article. Even without that knowledge, it may be logically deduced, as seen in post #4.

 

[Spotlite]

It is inherent in that system of religion, but your knowledge of the system would have to be far greater than this one article. Even without that knowledge, it may be logically deduced, as seen in post #4.

But post 4 isn’t really arriving at “the logical or pieces of THE answer” as it appears to be. There’s more flawed than stated but out of respect for my RC friends some debates aren’t worth debating.

Now, just give the man a straight answer as to how you know some of those folks are roasting - his understanding might be far greater than you imagine. Remember, the math teacher doesn’t ask the class the sum of 2 + 2 because the math teacher doesn’t know the answer.

 

[gemcgrew]

But post 4 isn’t really arriving at “the logical or pieces of THE answer” as it appears to be. There’s more flawed than stated but out of respect for my RC friends some debates aren’t worth debating.

Now, just give the man a straight answer as to how you know some of those folks are roasting - his understanding might be far greater than you imagine. Remember, the math teacher doesn’t ask the class the sum of 2 + 2 because the math teacher doesn’t know the answer.

Nowhere did I imply that he doesn't know the answer.

 

[Spotlite]

Nowhere did I imply that he doesn't know the answer.

True. He’s just asking you how you know they’re roasting.

It was a question I hesitated to ask you myself, but how do you know?