No need to fear the hot place? Let me preach on it!

[brutally honest]

What IS the will of his Father?

"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." - John 6:40

 

[brutally honest]

Do you doeth the will of his Father?
If so, what do you do?

I live by faith, What does that entail? Church attendance, Bible reading, confession of sins, prayer, taking the Lord's supper -- not to be saved but to grow as a Christian.

 

[bullethead]

"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." - John 6:40

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." - Matt. 7:21

And yet others are saying that a person saying that they believe is not enough

John needs to talk to Matt

 

[brutally honest]

I get that but we were just debating the idea of a non christian gettin shut out even while doing the will as it were. Like i said before, whats in your heart matters most.

No one is shut out for doing God's will. They will be shut out for NOT doing God's will. Even if they've never heard of the Christian God, they have moral principles and will have violated them at various points in their life.

"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."

 

[bullethead]

I live by faith, What does that entail? Church attendance, Bible reading, confession of sins, prayer, taking the Lord's supper -- not to be saved but to grow as a Christian.

Murderers and Clergy child molesters have and live by faith also. Every person that identifies as Christian would tell me and every other Christian that they have faith.
It seems that belonging to a religion is like all the other things people "identify" as but really aren't.

 

[livinoutdoors]

No one is shut out for doing God's will. They will be shut out for NOT doing God's will. Even if they've never heard of the Christian God, they have moral principles and will have violated them at various points in their life.

"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."

I aint against ya. I wish you success on your journey!

 

[brutally honest]

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." - Matt. 7:21

And yet others are saying that a person saying that they believe is not enough

John needs to talk to Matt

Belief is not just mental ascent. "The demons believe and tremble."

If you believe in the Bill of Rights, you will act accordingly. You will exercise those rights and not prevent others from doing the same.

 

[bullethead]

No one is shut out for doing God's will. They will be shut out for NOT doing God's will. Even if they've never heard of the Christian God, they have moral principles and will have violated them at various points in their life.

"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."

So the difference is Sin and Fall Short but believers will be forgiven...and only true beleivers will be forgiven because God knows what's in you heart even better than you think you know yourself.
It sounds like Heaven is sparsly populated.

 

[brutally honest]

Murderers and Clergy child molesters have and live by faith also.

Do you really believe that murderers and clergy child molesters are "living by faith"? Do you really believe they think they are "living by faith"?

 

[brutally honest]

So the difference is Sin and Fall Short but believers will be forgiven...and only true beleivers will be forgiven because God knows what's in you heart even better than you think you know yourself.
It sounds like Heaven is sparsly populated.

Probably much "sparser" than many would like to believe.

 

[bullethead]

Do you really believe that murderers and clergy child molesters are "living by faith"? Do you really believe they think they are "living by faith"?

I am certain that they believe that they are living by faith as much as others are.

 

[NE GA Pappy]

I have a feeling that a lot of folks we think are gonna be in heaven won't be there, and a lot we think that have an express ticket on the train to high temps may just fool us. It is not my place to judge anyone.

If I had know the thief on the cross 2 days before he met Jesus, I would have thought for rootin' tootin' sure he would bust hades wide open, yet Jesus said he was going to paradise that day.

Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

 

[bullethead]

Probably much "sparser" than many would like to believe.

And the majority of those will all tell everyone else that they will qualify to get in.

 

[livinoutdoors]

I have a feeling that a lot of folks we think are gonna be in heaven won't be there, and a lot we think that have an express ticket on the train to high temps may just fool us. It is not my place to judge anyone.

If I had know the thief on the cross 2 days before he met Jesus, I would have thought for rootin' tootin' sure he would bust hades wide open, yet Jesus said he was going to paradise that day.

Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

That was well said.

 

[oldfella1962]

Good point but are they really excusing Him for His benefit or theirs?

It depends on the person. But I would say some people excuse god for god's benefit. They know they are "sinners" so it's expected that they will act terribly at times, but since they are "forgiven" they go to heaven.

 

[oldfella1962]

One has to lay the giant ego down that assumes they can comprehend everything about a power that created the universe. Humbling one’s self is part of the bargain. God is very loving. For all our shortfalls there’s a way to eternal life. If your arrogant enough to mock that God expect no mercy.

I for one don't assume I know everything about the universe - or what powers exist in the universe - but that has nothing to do with ego. Nobody knows everything about the universe but learning more & more about it through the scientific process is IMHO a very worthy goal. I do not believe that any religion (that I know of) has any insight into any factual knowledge about anything scientific that wasn't known to the humans that started the religion. Believers of various religions might try to interpret religious writings to sound scientifically sound, but it's just wishful thinking. Science and religion are apples & oranges. Religion has its place in every society so there is a psychological need for it (for many people, but not all) but the fact that there are so many different religions with opposing worldviews indicates that they can't all be true at the same time - there is only one true "reality" and it is fact based, not belief based. Just my worldview, one of millions of other worldviews. We could all be totally wrong, but no religion so far has all the answers or even a mechanism for finding the real answers.

 

[oldfella1962]

Here is the bottom line. We as individuals give ourselves a little more credit and a lot more bias then we deserve.
If getting into Heaven has a cut-off line that is anything above "accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior" then Heaven is sparsely populated.
If Heaven is full of people who do as they want whenever they want and to or with with whoever they want but qualified because they believe then I don't want to be anywhere near those people for eternity and is the reason why I interact as little as possible with them now.
If a God is truly capable of knowing what is in a man's heart and judges a person by their actions but will exclude a better person because that person isn't carrying some sort of loyalty rewards program card that says I Jesus then again it is a club I don't want to belong to.

I am not conceited enough to think that I am a 1st Round pick on draft day but I am biased enough to know that I am better than all the wanna be walk-ons.

I have posited before (but it bears repeating) that getting into heaven should require a polygraph test! Jesus himself hooks you up and asks "do you really love/serve me or are you afraid of what happens to you if you don't love/serve me?"

Logically the supernatural in general doesn't make sense to my primitive brain, but if it did I might be tempted to be "a believer" if eternal torture for non-believers was off the table. But the moral issue of coercion & intimidation doesn't sit well with me. Everybody (actually every living thing that ever existed) getting one life to live then going six feet under sounds fair to me.

 

[oldfella1962]

Do you doeth the will of his Father?
If so, what do you do?
What IS the will of his Father?

whatever you interpret as "the will of the father" mostly from the bible but the bible can be interpreted six ways from Sunday and is a moving target at best.

 

[Spotlite]

I respect you if you are answering from a personal level but if you can look around your church pews, step back and listen to what other believers say and do outside of those pews and honestly tell me that everyone who thinks they are chosen follow the same path then you will know why I am not wrong.

Faith certainly plays the largest part but you cannot honestly tell me that the people who do not act Christian all week except an hour on Sunday also do not have the same Faith that they believe just as hard and will be rewarded just as much as someone who tows the line a little more tightly.
Those people will tell you and I that they are just as chosen, just as qualified, just as deserving and know God just as well. Everyone thinks that their sandals don't stink as much as yours do.
The only way I could be more wrong is if these pews are filled with Mother Theresa clones and not people who THINK they are Mother Theresa clones which is what they've convinced themselves of.

There are some that think their boo boo don’t stink. But, they don’t represent us all.

 

[bullethead]

There are some that think their boo boo don’t stink. But, they don’t represent us all.

I absolutely know that. From my experiences the genuine people are far and few between and most people who claim to be part of a religion are the worst offenders of things that they claim to be opposed to.
I understand it is human nature. But those types are what made me leave organized religion.