Paul’s conversion

[bullethead]

The believers aren’t happy because the question is too simple, and the unbelievers aren’t happy because the answer is too simple

You are correct. Ya can't talk Marvel when using a DC comic book for reference.
According to what is written in the stories of the Bible Paul converted because he saw a vision of Jesus on the road to Damascus.

If anyone here is wondering why there are more complex answers to the question you may be confused as which forum the question has been asked in.
If you wanted to hear all the answers that agree with you then it should have been posted a few floors up. It is THAT simple.

 

[stringmusic]

You guys stop in here asking questions like someone stopping at a gas station to ask for directions and then continue on the same route anyway because the directions take you away from the route you are already going. Why stop and ask if your immediate response is that the map is wrong without ever unfolding it?

It’s more like stopping at a gas station to ask for directions and then getting a recipe for chicken salad.

 

[bullethead]

It’s more like stopping at a gas station to ask for directions and then getting a recipe for chicken salad.

Everything that I posted has to do with Paul. Are you suggesting it doesn't? Chicken salad is like knowledge both are good and good things will never hurt you. Eat your Chikky sammich while you read up on the history of your own religion.
You never bothered to answer my questions to you about whether or not you have ever researched the Jerusalem Church or it's founders so I can see why direct answers seem like recipes to you.
So what was your point of asking the question in here?
An ah-ha gotcha moment? Did you think there was only one answer?

 

[SemperFiDawg]

It’s more like stopping at a gas station to ask for directions and then getting a recipe for chicken salad.

LOL. Well to be honest, and on the bright side, aside from the the usual suspect it's a pretty good question and in the appropriate forum to get diverse views. Maybe some of the more open minded, and less militant A/A's will chip in. There's a few still around.....maybe.

 

[Spotlite]

Interesting -
1 Peter 3:15 "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:"

It matters how we make that case for Christ. We must present it with gentleness and respect. Christians are not called on to condemn those who are curious about our hopefulness. Nor are we to be vindictive, vengeful, or insulting to those who disagree. Rather, we should explain our faith without harshness or dismissiveness.

 

[Spotlite]

But, back to Peter and James, the only thing you know about them is what Paul wrote

@bullethead in response to your note ^^^^^I unintentionally butchered that up. I was speaking specifically of Galatians since that was where the questions were being discussed.

 

[Israel]

You quoted me and enlarged a portion of my quote.
For what purpose?

What would be the limits of honesty (if there are any...or is it absolute?) for a man and how would he know if he were to the point he would declare it of himself? Before what standard would he present himself in able to say "I meet this" unwaveringly?

Would it mean "I have never lied"? Or, if one can concede he has, that now he is all free of it and no longer ever does?

Do you think these are just word games?

Have you ever been to court to give any testimony...or a deposition?
I'll assume you at least know the process before any testimony is given and how that one is presented an oath to swear or affirm (at the very least in the particular matter before the court) they will not, and are not lying; speaking only the truth, and no less, the whole of it.

Isn't it odd?

Or, have you never thought of the implications?

A man I know who was arrested for "disturbing the peace" by his street corner preaching (though no witnesses would confirm he impeded anyone, harassed anyone nor any confessed he put them in a even a state of fear by threat or disruption to their person or business) once interestingly pointed out that it was a Bible they originally presented for his swearing in when he testified.

But that same man, even though acquitted in that particular case, knows that the very thing to which no one confessed, and even in court denied, was the very thing upon which basis he was arrested.

They were disturbed by what was given him to speak. (Or at very least his manner) But they couldn't or didn't admit it. Were they the lying, or just ignorant?

That same man would be lying if he said what was given him to speak and the how of it, was not to him first, disturbing.

 

[bullethead]

What would be the limits of honesty (if there are any...or is it absolute?) for a man and how would he know if he were to the point he would declare it of himself? Before what standard would he present himself in able to say "I meet this" unwaveringly?

Would it mean "I have never lied"? Or, if one can concede he has, that now he is all free of it and no longer ever does?

Do you think these are just word games?

Have you ever been to court to give any testimony...or a deposition?
I'll assume you at least know the process before any testimony is given and how that one is presented an oath to swear or affirm (at the very least in the particular matter before the court) they will not, and are not lying; speaking only the truth, and no less, the whole of it.

Isn't it odd?

Or, have you never thought of the implications?

A man I know who was arrested for "disturbing the peace" by his street corner preaching (though no witnesses would confirm he impeded anyone, harassed anyone nor any confessed he put them in a even a state of fear by threat or disruption to their person or business) once interestingly pointed out that it was a Bible they originally presented for his swearing in when he testified.

But that same man, even though acquitted in that particular case, knows that the very thing to which no one confessed, and even in court denied, was the very thing upon which basis he was arrested.

They were disturbed by what was given him to speak. But they couldn't or didn't admit it. Were they the lying, or just ignorant?

That same man would be lying if he said what was given him to speak and the how of it, was not to him first, disturbing.

It meant that if SFD were even remotely close on anything in his assessment I would let him know.

You and SFD should lobby the moderators to make a forum for pretend psychologists where you two can offer diagnosis to the people that seek your help rather than you impose it when it is not asked for or wanted.

Street Corner/AAA threads, at least one holds you accountable.

 

[Israel]

It meant that if SFD were even remotely close on anything in his assessment I would let him know.

You and SFD should lobby the moderators to make a forum for pretend psychologists where you two can offer diagnosis to the people that seek your help rather than you impose it when it is not asked for or wanted.

Street Corner/AAA threads, at least one holds you accountable.

Disturbed much?

I have no intent nor desire to lobby anyone...and who is the one telling others "what they should do"?

Dare I posit who you believe "at least one holds you accountable."?

 

[bullethead]

@bullethead in response to your note ^^^^^I unintentionally butchered that up. I was speaking specifically of Galatians since that was where the questions were being discussed.

Ok
They are both mentioned by contemporary sources outside of Bible more than Jesus is with seemingly no forgeries or later additions to bolster their existence.

 

[bullethead]

Disturbed much?

I have no intent nor desire to lobby anyone...and who is the one telling others "what they should do"?

My disturbed meter is pegged at 0.0

I suggested what you should do after you singled me out and you went off on some usual tangents about things that were not directed at you and do not concern you. Don't start nuthin, Won't be nuthin.

 

[Israel]

My disturbed meter is pegged at 0.0

I suggested what you should do after you singled me out and you went off on some usual tangents about things that were not directed at you and do not concern you. Don't start nuthin, Won't be nuthin.

The matter of content and manner are never far from my necessity of consideration.

If I need more convincing of my natural bent toward being hostile and obnoxious of which I am yet unaware, it would surely be futile to resist upon whom God may choose to put that hat for revelation. Or that I have the power to continue in such resistance to my triumph.

But, thankfully the wonderful comfort of GEM's safe care of me yet ring in my ears (I know they were given him), for I hear a friend utter them. I believe I have been prayed for. I hear it.

"Don't worry, you are not that important".

Oh! the safety! Not important enough to ultimately effect to evil nor ill...than I am to the good. Just a thing affected by what is already established in eternity. I am affected as a canary in a coal mine immersed in what is, as a sign. I cannot curse what God has blessed, despite any utterance of mine. I can no more make noxious air than fresh air.

All I can be is blown through. To life, or death. I am in all of that hopeless except for command heard that abolishes choice..."therefore, choose life".


Perhaps you think you may have better lesson about man in that he hates being told how things are...and what to do. Even in what to choose...that abolishes choice. Or the telling of what is forbidden him to say or do.
And perhaps you even do.

Am I to fear what you imply is to "be" if something is started?

Don't start nuthin, Won't be nuthin.

Do you "have something" on me to be unleashed that you presently hold in abeyance? Will you show me something fearful?

Perhaps you do, God only knows. But then, you would have to know what God knows.

Do you?

Then you know I have no ability to start anything.

It is finished.

 

[bullethead]

The matter of content and manner are never far from my necessity of consideration.

If I need more convincing of my natural bent toward being hostile and obnoxious of which I am yet unaware, it would surely be futile to resist upon whom God may choose to put that hat for revelation. Or that I have the power to continue in such resistance to my triumph.

But, thankfully the wonderful comfort of GEM's safe care of me yet ring in my ears (I know they were given him), for I hear a friend utter them. I believe I have been prayed for. I hear it.

"Don't worry, you are not that important".

Oh! the safety! Not important enough to ultimately effect to evil nor ill...than I am to the good. Just a thing affected by what is already established in eternity. I am affected as a canary in a coal mine immersed in what is, as a sign. I cannot curse what God has blessed, despite any utterance of mine. I can no more make noxious air than fresh air.

All I can be is blown through. To life, or death. I am in all of that hopeless except for command heard that abolishes choice..."therefore, choose life".


Perhaps you think you may have better lesson about man in that he hates being told how things are...and what to do. Even in what to choose...that abolishes choice. Or the telling of what is forbidden him to say or do.
And perhaps you even do.

Am I to fear what you imply is to "be" if something is started?



Do you "have something" on me to be unleashed that you presently hold in abeyance? Will you show me something fearful?

Perhaps you do, God only knows. But then, you would have to know what God knows.

Do you?

Then you know I have no ability to start anything.

It is finished.

Good couch session with yourself.

 

[Israel]

I like reclining.

(But I had to be told to, to learn it)

 

[gordon 2]

Quote:Why do you think he chose to go from Roman citizenship to being put in prison? End quote.

If left to the Sanhedrin ( the Jewish court system) Paul was a dead duck. He deserved the fate of the Jew who frequented another God.

If left to the Roman court Paul had a fair chance to go free. The Romans were generally indifferent to the "Gods" of the people.

 

[bullethead]

Quote:Why do you think he chose to go from Roman citizenship to being put in prison? End quote.

If left to the Sanhedrin ( the Jewish court system) Paul was a dead duck. He deserved the fate of the Jew who frequented another God.

If left to the Roman court Paul had a fair chance to go free. The Romans were generally indifferent to the "Gods" of the people.

Paul also did not do his job which he was assigned to do. It is very likely that he was in trouble with the Sanhedrin before he claimed to have found Jesus.
Yes, his story tells it differently but many people find a new religion while in trouble with their old one. It's a way to keep options open.

 

[Spotlite]

Paul’s conversion is also symbolic indicating God revealing himself to one, and one turning their life around.

With the view that Paul only done this to escape trouble (and we know many claim to be outstanding Christians when the handcuffs are pulled out) but for the most part, it’s questioning the legitimacy of the serous ones and their life changing experience.

 

[bullethead]

Good couch session with yourself.

The matter of content and manner are never far from my necessity of consideration.

If I need more convincing of my natural bent toward being hostile and obnoxious of which I am yet unaware, it would surely be futile to resist upon whom God may choose to put that hat for revelation. Or that I have the power to continue in such resistance to my triumph.

You interjected "hostile and obnoxious" in order to provide a platform for yourself to continue on.

But, thankfully the wonderful comfort of GEM's safe care of me yet ring in my ears (I know they were given him), for I hear a friend utter them. I believe I have been prayed for. I hear it.

Whew, yes thankfully

"Don't worry, you are not that important".

Again, why the need to quote something as if it has been said or even implied and answer it if not to open a gate that isn't there to insert winded thoughts that are irrelevant?

Oh! the safety! Not important enough to ultimately effect to evil nor ill...than I am to the good. Just a thing affected by what is already established in eternity. I am affected as a canary in a coal mine immersed in what is, as a sign. I cannot curse what God has blessed, despite any utterance of mine. I can no more make noxious air than fresh air.

All I can be is blown through. To life, or death. I am in all of that hopeless except for command heard that abolishes choice..."therefore, choose life".

Example of what I mentioned prior

Perhaps you think you may have better lesson about man in that he hates being told how things are...and what to do. Even in what to choose...that abolishes choice. Or the telling of what is forbidden him to say or do.
And perhaps you even do.

Perhaps there is no reason for your continued assertion and fake perhaps just to put your thoughts into bandwith.

Am I to fear what you imply is to "be" if something is started?

I honestly do not know. All I did was make a reply as my something, which was all I meant.
If you quote me and call me out, I reply. It is that simple

Do you "have something" on me to be unleashed that you presently hold in abeyance? Will you show me something fearful?

I'll let you to your own paranoia

Perhaps you do, God only knows. But then, you would have to know what God knows.

I will answer like you and cover all the bases while never really giving a coherent answer.
Perhaps or maybe not but it's possible unless it isn't.

Do you?

Ask him and ye shall not recieve

Then you know I have no ability to start anything.

You quoting me for something that I said to someone else which had nothing to do with you and then you going on a rant about it says differently.

It is finished.

Plagiarism

 

[bullethead]

Paul’s conversion is also symbolic indicating God revealing himself to one, and one turning their life around.

With the view that Paul only done this to escape trouble (and we know many claim to be outstanding Christians when the handcuffs are pulled out) but for the most part, it’s questioning the legitimacy of the serous ones and their life changing experience.

Again, some real people, some real places, some real events which are embellished to add miraculous godly interactions. No different than cultures all throughout history.
Watch out for the Krakken on your next fishing trip if you do not give Poseidon the respect he, the Ancient Greeks and the authors of such tales deserve.
Or
Take them for what they are and go about your business unconcerned and a non believer.

And, people do not lie.

 

[Spotlite]

Again, some real people, some real places, some real events which are embellished to add miraculous godly interactions. No different than cultures all throughout history.
Watch out for the Krakken on your next fishing trip if you do not give Poseidon the respect he, the Ancient Greeks and the authors of such tales deserve.
Or
Take them for what they are and go about your business unconcerned and a non believer.

Well, that’s where some real and some aren't come into the picture.

There’s one characteristic I’ve never understood with some non believers and not aimed at anyone in particular on here, but be seen this in several comments. Remember I have an atheist cousin so for the sake of argument, I will use him.

Why is it that in order to be a believer, you must consider them all? (God / gods)

But yes, I do take them all for what they are, I go about my business unconcerned and not even leaving a small opportunity that any of them are out there except the one.

Why does there have to be a stipulation that they’re either all real / unreal?

I’ve asked on here before about the nonbelievers being 100% certain that the God of the Bible isn’t real. They say no. How certain are you that the rest aren’t?

The believer has no issue going unconcerned without even thinking about about any of the others he doesn’t believe exist.

I saw the edit portion “and people do not lie”. Every breathing person will lie at some point. Even if it’s to keep someone else out of trouble.

Romans - “For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.”

If a man can find hope in something, I’m not going to knock him down. If a man is ok not having hope in anything, I’m not going to knock him down.