Poison question for Charlie Kilmaster

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Sautee Ridgerunner

Senior Member
A few years back there was talk of a sulfite based poison that was going to be specific to hogs. It seemed initially very promising but I think there was some sort of hiccup. Has there been any headway with that? Poisoning of wildlife usually has been a giant mistake but this one was getting some legs from what I remember.
 

C.Killmaster

Georgia Deer Biologist
A few years back there was talk of a sulfite based poison that was going to be specific to hogs. It seemed initially very promising but I think there was some sort of hiccup. Has there been any headway with that? Poisoning of wildlife usually has been a giant mistake but this one was getting some legs from what I remember.

The toxicant you're referring to is probably sodium nitrite, the one that USDA is researching. It's not hog specific because it will kill other animals, but hogs are a little more susceptible to it. What they've been working on is a delivery method that only hogs can access, in this case a bin with a weighted lid. It won't work anywhere you have bears though. It made it into field trials a couple of years ago, but the hogs left too much of the bait scattered around and it killed a bunch of non-targets, mainly birds. After that they went back to the drawing board to re-encapsulate it more so there wouldn't be a taste aversion and change the consistency of the bait. Sodium nitrite is just a curing salt, ironically what's used in sausage and bacon, and tastes really salty. I think they are getting close to doing another round of field trials.

Here are some links with more info:

https://www.aphis.usda.gov/publications/wildlife_damage/feral-swine-bait.pdf
https://www.aphis.usda.gov/wildlife...amage_and_ Disease_Feral_Swine_ Ungulates.pdf
https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ne..._by_date/sa-2018/sa-06/feral-swine-bait-trial
 

Sautee Ridgerunner

Senior Member
Thanks so much for the very informative reply.

Yeah, it seems these things never work out the way we want them to. Id just as soon never see this stuff come to market if it’s going to have that type of bykill. Especially to bears.

Ive actually been shocked by how well the dnr trapping seems to be working on some of the mtn wma’s. Those cell cam triggered traps are brutal!
 

C.Killmaster

Georgia Deer Biologist
Thanks so much for the very informative reply.

Yeah, it seems these things never work out the way we want them to. Id just as soon never see this stuff come to market if it’s going to have that type of bykill. Especially to bears.

Ive actually been shocked by how well the dnr trapping seems to be working on some of the mtn wma’s. Those cell cam triggered traps are brutal!

We've got some technicians that take hog trapping very seriously and they are good at it.
 

across the river

Senior Member
Thanks so much for the very informative reply.

Yeah, it seems these things never work out the way we want them to. Id just as soon never see this stuff come to market if it’s going to have that type of bykill. Especially to bears.

Ive actually been shocked by how well the dnr trapping seems to be working on some of the mtn wma’s. Those cell cam triggered traps are brutal!
They have been using it for years in Australia and New Zeland with very little impact to non target species. This isn’t something new that has never been done before.
 

NMH5050

Senior Member
Who wants this? Whats the motive? I've walked all over Georgia and ain't found justification for trying to eradicate a whole species.

I just bought a farm and mowed all of my roads before that 2 days of rain a few weeks ago. The next week I came back and it looked like bombs went off for a 100 yards. My story is mild to what I have seen them do at a friend's place. They are a huge menace.
 

strothershwacker

Senior Member
I just bought a farm and mowed all of my roads before that 2 days of rain a few weeks ago. The next week I came back and it looked like bombs went off for a 100 yards. My story is mild to what I have seen them do at a friend's place. They are a huge menace.
I've seen the damage they can do but I ain't seen nothing that warrants killing them all and everything else in the area with poison. The "target" species will NEVER be the only one affected. We pave bout 200 thousand new acres a year in this state, yet worry bout what hogs are doing to the land? It's all about the $. The same people that want them poisoned would be turning them loose on there property if they could figure out have to profit from them.
 

C.Killmaster

Georgia Deer Biologist
I've seen the damage they can do but I ain't seen nothing that warrants killing them all and everything else in the area with poison. The "target" species will NEVER be the only one affected. We pave bout 200 thousand new acres a year in this state, yet worry bout what hogs are doing to the land? It's all about the $. The same people that want them poisoned would be turning them loose on there property if they could figure out have to profit from them.

I'm pretty sure we're always going to have pigs in Georgia whether this toxicant gets approved or not. Using the toxicants isn't going to be something that leads to the eradication of pigs, it's another management tool along with shooting and trapping. You have to train pigs to operate the special feeder before you can put out the toxicant and it's going to be limited to use by trained professionals, not just available to the general public. I'm sure there are some people that would love to eradicate pigs, but I think most would be happy to just push population numbers and distribution back to where it was 20 or 30 years ago.1982-national-swine-map-county2.jpg2019-feral-swine-distribution-2.jpg
 

NMH5050

Senior Member
I've seen the damage they can do but I ain't seen nothing that warrants killing them all and everything else in the area with poison. The "target" species will NEVER be the only one affected. We pave bout 200 thousand new acres a year in this state, yet worry bout what hogs are doing to the land? It's all about the $. The same people that want them poisoned would be turning them loose on there property if they could figure out have to profit from them.


I agree with you about the poison part. It would kill other animals that are not being targeted. I am more for trapping them. If somehow it would only kill them I would gladly use it but that is not the case.
 

C.Killmaster

Georgia Deer Biologist
I agree with you about the poison part. It would kill other animals that are not being targeted. I am more for trapping them. If somehow it would only kill them I would gladly use it but that is not the case.

That's exactly what they are testing, delivering the poison through a feeder that only pigs can access. No one would even be considering poison unless you can eliminate or severely reduce any deaths from animals other than pigs.
 

strothershwacker

Senior Member
That's exactly what they are testing, delivering the poison through a feeder that only pigs can access. No one would even be considering poison unless you can eliminate or severely reduce any deaths from animals other than pigs.
Can a hog not consume enough nitrite to be poisonous to whatever eats it? You may find a way to get it only into the hog, but how you gonna keep the hog out of the coons, coyotes, fox, opossum, bear ect.. ect...?
 

across the river

Senior Member
Can a hog not consume enough nitrite to be poisonous to whatever eats it? You may find a way to get it only into the hog, but how you gonna keep the hog out of the coons, coyotes, fox, opossum, bear ect.. ect...?
They have been doing this in New Zeland and Australia for years, an there is a bunch of info out there regarding this. The risk to other animals and humans that eat the poisoned pig is essentially nil. In short sodium nitrite is NaSO2. Sodium Nitrate is NaSO3 which is stable, so the nitrite either wants to react with something to pull another oxygen or stabilize the molecule. Sodium nitrate essentially poisons them like Carbon Monoxide CO which does essentially the same thing. Carbon Dioxide CO2 is more stable and you breathe it in and out all the time. Once the pig dies, the “Poison” has already reacted so there is nothing to really poisonous( reactive) to pass along. Just like if you killed a cow with carbon monoxide, you could eat it and not get harmed at all.
 

GeorgiaBob

Senior Member
Who wants this? Whats the motive? I've walked all over Georgia and ain't found justification for trying to eradicate a whole species.

I do. Feral hogs are an invasive species. They are not native to North America and many native species cannot compete nor thrive where hogs have moved in. Hogs damage habitat for many game animals, consume far too much of the resources in any area, and reproduce too rapidly.

Most farmers also hate feral pigs. One sounder can destroy hundreds of acres of crops in a very short time. The scrapes and digs the hogs leave behind can damage tractors and harvesters. Feral hogs cost farmers lost of money. (note: I am not a farmer.)
 
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