Sam Harris An Atheist Manifesto

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
http://m.truthdig.com/dig/item/200512_an_atheist_manifesto
An Atheist Manifesto

Somewhere in the world a man has abducted a little girl. Soon he will rape, torture and kill her. If an atrocity of this kind is not occurring at precisely this moment, it will happen in a few hours, or days at most. Such is the confidence we can draw from the statistical laws that govern the lives of 6 billion human beings. The same statistics also suggest that this girl s parents believe at this very moment that an all-powerful and all-loving God is watching over them and their family. Are they right to believe this? Is it good that they believe this?

No.

The entirety of atheism is contained in this response. Atheism is not a philosophy; it is not even a view of the world; it is simply a refusal to deny the obvious.Censored Unfortunately, we live in a world in which the obvious is overlooked as a matter of principle. The obvious must be observed and re-observed and argued for. This is a thankless job. It carries with it an aura of petulance and insensitivity. It is, moreover, a job that the atheist does not want.

Censored

It is worth noting that no one ever needs to identify himself as a non-astrologer or a non-alchemist. Consequently, we do not have words for people who deny the validity of these pseudo-disciplines. Likewise, atheism is a term that should not even exist. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make when in the presence of religious dogma. The atheist is merely a person who believes that the 260 million Americans (87% of the population) who claim toCensorednever doubt the existence of GodCensored should be obliged to present evidence for his existence and, indeed, for his benevolence, given the relentless destruction of innocent human beings we witness in the world each day. Only the atheist appreciates just how uncanny our situation is: Most of us believe in a God that is every bit as specious as the gods of Mount Olympus; no person, whatever his or her qualifications, can seek public office in the United States without pretending to be certain that such a God exists; and much of what passes for public policy in our country conforms to religious taboos and superstitions appropriate to a medieval theocracy. Our circumstance is abject, indefensible and terrifying. It would be hilarious if the stakes were not so high.

We live in a world where all things, good and bad, are finally destroyed by change. Parents lose their children and children their parents. Husbands and wives are separated in an instant, never to meet again. Friends part company in haste, without knowing that it will be for the last time. This life, when surveyed with a broad glance, presents little more than a vast spectacle of loss. Most people in this world, however, imagine that there is a cure for this. If we live rightly—not necessarily ethically, but within the framework of certain ancient beliefs and stereotyped behaviors—we will get everything we want after we die. When our bodies finally fail us, we just shed our corporeal ballast and travel to a land where we are reunited with everyone we loved while alive. Of course, overly rational people and other rabble will be kept out of this happy place, and those who suspended their disbelief while alive will be free to enjoy themselves for all eternity.

We live in a world of unimaginable surprises—from the fusion energy that lights the sun to the genetic and evolutionary consequences of this lights dancing for eons upon the Earth—and yet Paradise conforms to our most superficial concerns with all the fidelity of a Caribbean cruise. This is wondrously strange. If one didn’t know better, one would think that man, in his fear of losing all that he loves, had created heaven, along with its gatekeeper God, in his own image.

Consider the destruction that Hurricane Katrina leveled on New Orleans. More than a thousand people died, tens of thousands lost all their earthly possessions, and nearly a million were displaced. It is safe to say that almost every person living in New Orleans at the moment Katrina struck believed in an omnipotent, omniscient and compassionate God. But what was God doing while a hurricane laid waste to their city? Surely he heard the prayers of those elderly men and women who fled the rising waters for the safety of their attics, only to be slowly drowned there. These were people of faith. These were good men and women who had prayed throughout their lives. Only the atheist has the courage to admit the obvious: These poor people died talking to an imaginary friend.

Of course, there had been ample warning that a storm of biblical proportions would strike New Orleans, and the human response to the ensuing disaster was tragically inept. But it was inept only by the light of science. Advance warning of Katrina’s path was wrested from mute Nature by meteorological calculations and satellite imagery. God told no one of his plans. Had the residents of New Orleans been content to rely on the beneficence of the Lord, they wouldn’t have known that a killer hurricane was bearing down upon them until they felt the first gusts of wind on their faces. Nevertheless, a poll conducted by The Washington Post found that 80% of Katrina’s survivors claim that the event has only strengthened their faith in God.

As Hurricane Katrina was devouring New Orleans, nearly a thousand Shiite pilgrims were trampled to death on a bridge in Iraq. There can be no doubt that these pilgrims believed mightily in the God of the Koran: Their lives were organized around the indisputable fact of his existence; their women walked veiled before him; their men regularly murdered one another over rival interpretations of his word. It would be remarkable if a single survivor of this tragedy lost his faith. More likely, the survivors imagine that they were spared through God’s grace.

Only the atheist recognizes the boundless narcissism and self-deceit of the saved. Only the atheist realizes how morally objectionable it is for survivors of a catastrophe to believe themselves spared by a loving God while this same God drowned infants in their cribs. Because he refuses to cloak the reality of the world’s suffering in a cloying fantasy of eternal life, the atheist feels in his bones just how precious life is—and, indeed, how unfortunate it is that millions of human beings suffer the most harrowing abridgements of their happiness for no good reason at all.

One wonders just how vast and gratuitous a catastrophe would have to be to shake the world’s faith. TheCensoredHolocaustCensoreddid not do it. Neither did thegenocide in Rwanda, even with machete-wielding priests among the perpetrators. Five hundred million people died ofCensoredsmallpoxCensoredin the 20th Century, many of them infants. God’s ways are, indeed, inscrutable. It seems that any fact, no matter how infelicitous, can be rendered compatible with religious faith. In matters of faith, we have kicked ourselves loose of the Earth.

Of course, people of faith regularly assure one another that God is not responsible for human suffering. But how else can we understand the claim that God is both omniscient and omnipotent? There is no other way, and it is time for sane human beings to own up to this. This is the age-old problem oftheodicy, of course, and we should consider it solved. If God exists, either he can do nothing to stop the most egregious calamities or he does not care to. God, therefore, is either impotent or evil. Pious readers will now execute the following pirouette: God cannot be judged by merely human standards of morality. But, of course, human standards of morality are precisely what the faithful use to establish God’s goodness in the first place. And any God who could concern himself with something as trivial as gay marriage, or the name by which he is addressed in prayer, is not as inscrutable as all that. If he exists, the God of Abraham is not merely unworthy of the immensity of creation; he is unworthy even of man.

There is another possibility, of course, and it is both the most reasonable and least odious: The biblical God is a fiction. AsCensoredRichard DawkinsCensoredhas observed, we are all atheists with respect to Zeus and Thor. Only the atheist has realized that the biblical god is no different. Consequently, only the atheist is compassionate enough to take the profundity of the world’s suffering at face value. It is terrible that we all die and lose everything we love; it is doubly terrible that so many human beings suffer needlessly while alive. That so much of this suffering can be directly attributed to religion—to religious hatreds, religious wars, religious delusions and religious diversions of scarce resources—is what makes atheism a moral and intellectual necessity. It is a necessity, however, that places the atheist at the margins of society. The atheist, by merely being in touch with reality, appears shamefully out of touch with the fantasy life of his neighbors
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
I don't know why the filters throw the word "censored" in there every so often, there are no curses.
 

WaltL1

Senior Member
A little dramatic maybe but some undeniable points that can't be "explained" away.
 

welderguy

Senior Member
Quote "Of course, people of faith regularly assure one another that God is not responsible for human suffering"

This statement is untrue, and may be part of the reason for his confusion.
 

ambush80

Senior Member
If only they would keep it to themselves.

I've been thinking about the people I know that are marginally religious and have wondered "what harm are they doing?" They tend to be rational in every other way, why should I care if they believe in Heaven or God? The answer is I shouldn't. But when they say things like we shouldn't do stem cell research on human embryos (clusters of 500 cells) because God told them or convicted them I remember the dangers. Then I realize that their belief system pervades everything they do which I must admit for the ones that I know, who are generally quite liberal, it is a net positive. When I visit my friends and extended family in more rural environments where there is less education, the dangers of religious belief become readily apparent. As is always the case, religiosity is tempered by secular education. They can't keep it to themselves.
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
Quote "Of course, people of faith regularly assure one another that God is not responsible for human suffering"

This statement is untrue, and may be part of the reason for his confusion.
There are certainly some examples of that being true.
You might not say it or believe it personally, but you are incorrect to say the statement is untrue. You ignore the examples given in the forums here and above. The excuse that man has brought it upon himself is the rally cry.
 

WaltL1

Senior Member
If only they would keep it to themselves.

I've been thinking about the people I know that are marginally religious and have wondered "what harm are they doing?" They tend to be rational in every other way, why should I care if they believe in Heaven or God? The answer is I shouldn't. But when they say things like we shouldn't do stem cell research on human embryos (clusters of 500 cells) because God told them or convicted them I remember the dangers. Then I realize that their belief system pervades everything they do which I must admit for the ones that I know, who are generally quite liberal, it is a net positive. When I visit my friends and extended family in more rural environments where there is less education, the dangers of religious belief become readily apparent. As is always the case, religiosity is tempered by secular education. They can't keep it to themselves.
I'm wondering, and maybe I'm just ignorant on this, but is the "danger" in that thinking all that dangerous any more?
Doesn't have the power that it used to?
 

WaltL1

Senior Member
Quote "Of course, people of faith regularly assure one another that God is not responsible for human suffering"

This statement is untrue, and may be part of the reason for his confusion.

I think in general his point is for example -
The person of course survived the horrific car crash because "God was with them".
Of course no mention of where God was about 2 seconds BEFORE the crash.
But yes there are a minority of you that come right out and say your god is responsible for the bad as well as the good.
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
I think in general his point is for example -
The person of course survived the horrific car crash because "God was with them".
Of course no mention of where God was about 2 seconds BEFORE the crash.
But yes there are a minority of you that come right out and say your god is responsible for the bad as well as the good.
No mention on how the drunk that caused the crash survived and how the entire family of four that he hit burned alive screaming to the very end because their vehicle caught fire and they were trapped. I have not heard a person mutter "that's the way God wanted it" at their funeral. Not saying there aren't any, but it would not seem the majority give god credit for both .
 

welderguy

Senior Member
There are certainly some examples of that being true.
You might not say it or believe it personally, but you are incorrect to say the statement is untrue. You ignore the examples given in the forums here and above. The excuse that man has brought it upon himself is the rally cry.

All you have to do is look at the cross, where God poured out His wrath on His Son.Our relatively small suffering in this life can not even compare to what He saved His people from.
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
If you click on the link there are 3 more pages to go along with the writing above.
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
All you have to do is look at the cross, where God poured out His wrath on His Son.Our relatively small suffering in this life can not even compare to what He saved His people from.
I looked. I see a symbol of a religion. Jesus was crucified like thousands before and after. I do not see a shred of evidence of any saving going on. He didn't suffer any more or any less than all the others. He got off easy compared to how some people suffer for their lifetime in these modern times.
What I see in believers is the twisted thought process that ignores facts in favor of fiction.
I do not see what you see and neither do billions of others.

Jesus must be thrilled to have the device that tortured him as the symbol his followers chose to represent him.
Kind of like putting a picture of the burnt up vehicle next to the casket at the wake. Ya know, to show what the person endured.....
 

WaltL1

Senior Member
No mention on how the drunk that caused the crash survived and how the entire family of four that he hit burned alive screaming to the very end because their vehicle caught fire and they were trapped. I have not heard a person mutter "that's the way God wanted it" at their funeral. Not saying there aren't any, but it would not seem the majority give god credit for both .
And to Sam's point, the comforting phrase of the day will be "it must be God's plan".
Nobody will question how an innocent, screaming, burning child fits into that plan.
 

660griz

Senior Member
All you have to do is look at the cross, where God poured out His wrath on His Son.Our relatively small suffering in this life can not even compare to what He saved His people from.

God poured out his wrath on himself. Or, there are 2 Gods.
 

ambush80

Senior Member
I looked. I see a symbol of a religion. Jesus was crucified like thousands before and after. I do not see a shred of evidence of any saving going on. He didn't suffer any more or any less than all the others. He got off easy compared to how some people suffer for their lifetime in these modern times.
What I see in believers is the twisted thought process that ignores facts in favor of fiction.
I do not see what you see and neither do billions of others.

Jesus must be thrilled to have the device that tortured him as the symbol his followers chose to represent him.
Kind of like putting a picture of the burnt up vehicle next to the casket at the wake. Ya know, to show what the person endured.....

And to Sam's point, the comforting phrase of the day will be "it must be God's plan".
Nobody will question how an innocent, screaming, burning child fits into that plan.


I totally agree with you all, Sam included, that if this is the best that God could do then He sucks. BUT, if this IS how God set it up, then all I can do is complain and refuse to worship Him. "That God is a meany" isn't really a good argument against his existence. I think a completely rational argument against the divinity of the Bible is relatively easy to make.

Again, saying "that's not how I would have done it" doesn't refute the existence of God.
 

660griz

Senior Member
I totally agree with you all, Sam included, that if this is the best that God could do then He sucks. BUT, if this IS how God set it up, then all I can do is complain and refuse to worship Him. "That God is a meany" isn't really a good argument against his existence. I think a completely rational argument against the divinity of the Bible is relatively easy to make.

Again, saying "that's not how I would have done it" doesn't refute the existence of God.

The beauty of it, is that we don't have to refute the existence of God...since there is no proof there is one.

For believers of the Christian God of mercy and love, God is a meany, bully, and 'that's not how I would have done it', even though I was created in his image, should be another little sample of evidence that the bible was written by men in a very dark time.
 

ambush80

Senior Member
The beauty of it, is that we don't have to refute the existence of God...since there is no proof there is one.

For believers of the Christian God of mercy and love, God is a meany, bully, and 'that's not how I would have done it', even though I was created in his image, should be another little sample of evidence that the bible was written by men in a very dark time.

Right. We have to refute the "proof" as it is presented, which is never that hard.
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
I totally agree with you all, Sam included, that if this is the best that God could do then He sucks. BUT, if this IS how God set it up, then all I can do is complain and refuse to worship Him. "That God is a meany" isn't really a good argument against his existence. I think a completely rational argument against the divinity of the Bible is relatively easy to make.

Again, saying "that's not how I would have done it" doesn't refute the existence of God.
"IF", one god...then 10,000 gods.
The same argument can be made for them all yet for the same reasons believers believe in one, they dismiss all the others for those same reasons.

Atheists are just honest enough to take on e more god off the list for those reasons.
 

welderguy

Senior Member
"IF", one god...then 10,000 gods.
The same argument can be made for them all yet for the same reasons believers believe in one, they dismiss all the others for those same reasons.

Atheists are just honest enough to take on e more god off the list for those reasons.

Atheists are not honest. And in taking that one more off your list,you try to eradicate the One who created the dust you are made of and everything else.All those other gods could not exist in the minds of all those other people without first One creating the mind itself.See how that works?It all comes back to a single source of creation.
If you can work out some other PROOF of another means of creation,instead of a ridiculous theory,then we will have something to discuss.Until then,you are just as proofless as the next guy,so you might as well get off the merry-go-round.
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
Atheists are not honest. And in taking that one more off your list,you try to eradicate the One who created the dust you are made of and everything else.All those other gods could not exist in the minds of all those other people without first One creating the mind itself.See how that works?It all comes back to a single source of creation.
If you can work out some other PROOF of another means of creation,instead of a ridiculous theory,then we will have something to discuss.Until then,you are just as proofless as the next guy,so you might as well get off the merry-go-round.
The ONE and ONLY MIGHTY MOUSE (notice all caps) created your god. We have the same proof.

In your spare time take the opportunity to look up what constitutes a scientific theory. It is not an invisible excuse for a big brother up in the sky.
Nothing, literally nothing points to or comes back to a single source of creation. There is a point in time where our Universe was created but nobody, literally NOBODY, knows what was before that.
Get of your high horse in thinking you know anything. Not once have you posted anything but your indoctrinated opinion. Repeating it over and over is not evidence. Get some and then you can be taken seriously.
 

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