GunnSmokeer
Senior Member
I used to think that a 12 gauge "riot gun" or "street sweeper" combat shotgun was one of the best possible choices for home defense or to carry when traveling, camping, etc. A defensive weapon for just about any threat from any scenario.
One of the advantages of the shotgun, I thought, was that it threw a pretty wide pattern of pellets and would make hitting the target easier. Especially if you're moving, the "target" is an adversary who is also moving, and he's wielding a weapon against you. (So "accuracy" in real -life is likely to be nowhere near as good as what accuracy you get at the shooting range, punching paper targets).
But, we all know that shotguns don't really open up to give a wide pattern at typical self-defense distances. I've found it's less than 1" of spread per yard to the target. That's from short-barreled cylinder bore guns. No choke.
Some people are advocating the use of a special type of wad that holds the pellets together much longer. Federal invented this and called their version FliteControl. It can shrink 00 buckshot groups from 12" down to 6" at 15 yards.
More and more "combat shotguns" these days are getting fitted with rifle sights, ghost ring peep sights, and red-dot scopes. Just like the military M4 carbines in 5.56 mm wear.
SO MY QUESTION IS: Why choose a shotgun at all?
Why not just choose a rifle or carbine, in a necked-case rifle caliber that shoots a 50-130 grain expanding bullet at 2500-3100 f.p.s.?
A .30 bore rifle has 30% less recoil than a 12 gauge shotgun of the same weight.
A modern paramilitary type rifle or carbine will hold 30 rounds in the magazine, instead of 6-9 in the shotgun.
Refilling the tubular magazine on a shotgun is slow, but mag changes on an AR are super-fast and easy.
An AR carbine can be lighter by about 2 pounds, compared to most 12-gauge combat shotguns.
A rifle or carbine can be shorter, with a 16" barrel as the requirement to stay out of the NFA's reach, while the shotgun has to have at least an 18" barrel to be unregulated.
Is it stopping power?
Is that what makes a shotgun good?
I think that a high-velocity rifle bullet of an expanding / varmint design will have plenty of stopping power, and will create a huge wound cavity that's both deep enough and not too prone to overpenetration. Now FMJ or "ball ammo" would be a bad choice. Let's assume that the rifles or carbines would only be loaded with relatively light and fast-moving expanding bullets.
The effective range of a rifle has to be at least triple that of a shotgun. Shotguns with buckshot are widely regarded as being good to 50 yards, and with slugs and some decent sights or a scope, make that 100 yards. Rifles are good to at least 150 yards with plain iron sights, shooting quickly from the standing position (unsupported). But with a rifle, if you take the time to get into a steady position or use a rest, you can shoot accurately out to at least 300 yards (even in intermediate calibers like the 6.5mm or 6.8mm, or the .300 Blackout (supersonic). The smoothbore shotgun just isn't going to get the job done at more than about 125 yards, even if you use slugs and take your time to aim well from a steady rest.
What do y'all think?
One of the advantages of the shotgun, I thought, was that it threw a pretty wide pattern of pellets and would make hitting the target easier. Especially if you're moving, the "target" is an adversary who is also moving, and he's wielding a weapon against you. (So "accuracy" in real -life is likely to be nowhere near as good as what accuracy you get at the shooting range, punching paper targets).
But, we all know that shotguns don't really open up to give a wide pattern at typical self-defense distances. I've found it's less than 1" of spread per yard to the target. That's from short-barreled cylinder bore guns. No choke.
Some people are advocating the use of a special type of wad that holds the pellets together much longer. Federal invented this and called their version FliteControl. It can shrink 00 buckshot groups from 12" down to 6" at 15 yards.
More and more "combat shotguns" these days are getting fitted with rifle sights, ghost ring peep sights, and red-dot scopes. Just like the military M4 carbines in 5.56 mm wear.
SO MY QUESTION IS: Why choose a shotgun at all?
Why not just choose a rifle or carbine, in a necked-case rifle caliber that shoots a 50-130 grain expanding bullet at 2500-3100 f.p.s.?
A .30 bore rifle has 30% less recoil than a 12 gauge shotgun of the same weight.
A modern paramilitary type rifle or carbine will hold 30 rounds in the magazine, instead of 6-9 in the shotgun.
Refilling the tubular magazine on a shotgun is slow, but mag changes on an AR are super-fast and easy.
An AR carbine can be lighter by about 2 pounds, compared to most 12-gauge combat shotguns.
A rifle or carbine can be shorter, with a 16" barrel as the requirement to stay out of the NFA's reach, while the shotgun has to have at least an 18" barrel to be unregulated.
Is it stopping power?
Is that what makes a shotgun good?
I think that a high-velocity rifle bullet of an expanding / varmint design will have plenty of stopping power, and will create a huge wound cavity that's both deep enough and not too prone to overpenetration. Now FMJ or "ball ammo" would be a bad choice. Let's assume that the rifles or carbines would only be loaded with relatively light and fast-moving expanding bullets.
The effective range of a rifle has to be at least triple that of a shotgun. Shotguns with buckshot are widely regarded as being good to 50 yards, and with slugs and some decent sights or a scope, make that 100 yards. Rifles are good to at least 150 yards with plain iron sights, shooting quickly from the standing position (unsupported). But with a rifle, if you take the time to get into a steady position or use a rest, you can shoot accurately out to at least 300 yards (even in intermediate calibers like the 6.5mm or 6.8mm, or the .300 Blackout (supersonic). The smoothbore shotgun just isn't going to get the job done at more than about 125 yards, even if you use slugs and take your time to aim well from a steady rest.
What do y'all think?
and I'll be able to hear what's up next
