Solution to World Crisis....

[addictedtodeer]

In debate, the proposing team in a debate round is usually (but not always) assumed to have the burden of proof, which means that if the team fails to prove the proposition to the satisfaction of the judge, the opposition wins.

Exactly as an atheist you must prove your statement just as the theist must prove theirs.

let me explain

the Christian "there is God"
Atheist" there are no gods"
Christian "God introduces himself in scripture and declares that he is"
Atheist: (now must prove their point and disprove the christian)

 

[pnome]

Umm not according to logic.
You are making a statement that needs to be proven, just as we are.

Tell me then, whence comes the presumption of innocence in our legal system?

Ohh and read this: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/logic.html#shifting

 

[addictedtodeer]

Tell me then, whence comes the presumption of innocence in our legal system?

Ohh and read this: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/logic.html#shifting

The problem with "An Introduction to Atheism" and most atheist I meet is that they do not deal with the primary issue with Christianity, God introduces himself.

To be a weak or strong atheist you deal with all the issues but the primary one the statement by God that he exists.

It's the 600lb gorilla that everyone passes over and never deals with.

I do not expect that we will agree I just would love for an atheist to actually argue against God's statement of existence.

 

[connorreid]

I admitted I can't . That is why I asked for your expert definition. So you equate the Westminster Divines on an equal basis as the bible? Again not judging ,but asking for your expert answer. Not trying to be a hypocrite by judging fruit ,just trying to emulate one who professes to be the expert. You know, imitation is a form of flattery, that kind of thing.

You labelled me "expert", not me. I don't think I am but obviously you do. Thanks!!
I don't equate the West. Divines on same level as Bible. Don't know where you got that from.
I can't believe a grown man like you can't come up with a simple definition. Why get on here and debate if words (in your perspective of the world) really have no meaning??

 

[connorreid]

Tell me then, whence comes the presumption of innocence in our legal system?

Ohh and read this: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/logic.html#shifting

How can you account for innocence in an atheistic world?? That "presupposes" moral absolutes (which you guys claim not to have).
Same with a "legal" system - how could you have one in an atheistic world where we are like animals with no meaning??

 

[pnome]

I just would love for an atheist to actually argue against God's statement of existence.

More explanation is needed. The statement "God's statement of existence" presupposes his existence in order to make such a statement.

 

[celticfisherman]

More explanation is needed. The statement "God's statement of existence" presupposes his existence in order to make such a statement.

And yours presupposes His non-existence.

 

[earl]

You labelled me "expert", not me. I don't think I am but obviously you do. Thanks!!
I don't equate the West. Divines on same level as Bible. Don't know where you got that from.
I can't believe a grown man like you can't come up with a simple definition. Why get on here and debate if words (in your perspective of the world) really have no meaning??

You may become the first person to go on my ignore list . It is plai to see that you are all bluff and bluster and do not have the mental capacity to back up any thing that you
say .In your case a good defense is a better offense . Spout nonsensical garbage and then ask others to explain it back to you.
1. You have claimed to know others relationship with their god because you know fruit.
2. you stated that thewest.divine said the same thing as the bible.
3. Any definition I give would be insufficient for you [in your perspective of your world ]
4. You have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that you know absolutely nothing about debate.
5. Words have no meaning for you because you choose not to understand.
Should you ever choose to have a real dialogue with any one I wish you the best of luck. Your constant personal attacks on folks will soon send you down the same path as 5 and big 10. Some christians just like sticking together I guess.

 

[connorreid]

You may become the first person to go on my ignore list . It is plai to see that you are all bluff and bluster and do not have the mental capacity to back up any thing that you
say .In your case a good defense is a better offense . Spout nonsensical garbage and then ask others to explain it back to you.
1. You have claimed to know others relationship with their god because you know fruit.
2. you stated that thewest.divine said the same thing as the bible.
3. Any definition I give would be insufficient for you [in your perspective of your world ]
4. You have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that you know absolutely nothing about debate.
5. Words have no meaning for you because you choose not to understand.
Should you ever choose to have a real dialogue with any one I wish you the best of luck. Your constant personal attacks on folks will soon send you down the same path as 5 and big 10. Some christians just like sticking together I guess.

I could care less if I go on your ignore list. What's funny is what all you accuse me of (and you are a grown MAN) then you act like a 5 year old, say your mad and are taking your toys home. You come to a debate forum and get your feelings hurt. Sorry. Who is the child? By the way, I don't believe in luck so don't wish it for me.....

 

[earl]

connor old son, I am waiting on an answer from the mods prior to responding to your post .

 

[celticfisherman]

connor old son, I am waiting on an answer from the mods prior to responding to your post .

Earl you are going to have to show someone where he has insulted you. I don't see where he has called you a name or anything. Just questioned your actions. And how you act to everyone. Oh well....

He answers your questions and clearly. You may not understand them but that isn't his fault. You have danced and whined for several posts now. He's right. You just seem to have got your feelings hurt cause someone nailed who you are.

 

[ambush80]

And yours presupposes His non-existence.

That is the default without evidence. that is the default without evidence. that is the default without evidence......

One last time so that this is never brought up again?

That is the default without evidence.

(I'm not even an atheist and I get it)

 

[earl]

Earl you are going to have to show someone where he has insulted you. I don't see where he has called you a name or anything. Just questioned your actions. And how you act to everyone. Oh well....

He answers your questions and clearly. You may not understand them but that isn't his fault. You have danced and whined for several posts now. He's right. You just seem to have got your feelings hurt cause someone nailed who you are.

And now we hear from the peanut gallery. IMO ya'll are birds of a feather. Maestro's of all things religious. Your babbleings explain everything but only if we believe in the same nonsense.I enjoy debating but usually only those who know how.

 

[celticfisherman]

And now we hear from the peanut gallery. IMO ya'll are birds of a feather. Maestro's of all things religious. Your babbleings explain everything but only if we believe in the same nonsense.I enjoy debating but usually only those who know how.

The same goes with you earl. The babblings of a man who cannot and will not attempt to understand spiritual things has no purpose in a debate about spiritual things.

I took debate, communications, and all the rest. Even Philosophy... The irrate ramblings of an athiest or agnostic or whatever it is you now are are meaningless. So are your opinions about something you know nothing about.

I don't have a clue about quantum physics. So any opinion I would offer is meaningless and without merit. Same as your opinions on religion.

 

[connorreid]

The same goes with you earl. The babblings of a man who cannot and will not attempt to understand spiritual things has no purpose in a debate about spiritual things.

I took debate, communications, and all the rest. Even Philosophy... The irrate ramblings of an athiest or agnostic or whatever it is you now are are meaningless. So are your opinions about something you know nothing about.

I don't have a clue about quantum physics. So any opinion I would offer is meaningless and without merit. Same as your opinions on religion.

When people are pressed to make sense of their worldview and they can't, they get mad. When they are not agreed with they get frustrated and become irrational. I remember growing up in the church and then realizing after several discussions with people that I didn't even know why I believed what I believed and that frustrated me b/c I couldn't defend it. All I could do is clam up or get angry (that didn't produce anything good). I believe, now, I have a systematic theology and a lot of times people don't like that b/c along with a systematic form comes MANY ANSWERS (people may not like your answers, but you have them). People just don't like it when you put forth your system, even though they don't understand it or won't even attempt to. They start slinging mud and degenerating quickly. A lot of times what they think is "arrogant" is really "confidence" and they don't like it. Just my opinion from observations..........

 

[celticfisherman]

When people are pressed to make sense of their worldview and they can't, they get mad. When they are not agreed with they get frustrated and become irrational. I remember growing up in the church and then realizing after several discussions with people that I didn't even know why I believed what I believed and that frustrated me b/c I couldn't defend it. All I could do is clam up or get angry (that didn't produce anything good). I believe, now, I have a systematic theology and a lot of times people don't like that b/c along with a systematic form comes MANY ANSWERS (people may not like your answers, but you have them). People just don't like it when you put forth your system, even though they don't understand it or won't even attempt to. They start slinging mud and degenerating quickly. A lot of times what they think is "arrogant" is really "confidence" and they don't like it. Just my opinion from observations..........

Yep.

 

[earl]

And that is where you show your ignorance and arrogance in one sentence. Spiritual things are not the sole property of the christian religion. They may be in your mind ,but are not in the real world. What I will not accept is christianity ,especially your peculiar brand. If you attended the philosophy classes you took , you should be able to understand the thought process. Instead your major rebuttal is because others don't believe as you do they cannot be spiritual . It's like saying because I am a John Birch advocate I can't understand politics. While I may not be in the majority ,it in no way diminishes my ability to understand ,discuss , or even debate with a democrat or republican.
I don't have a clue about quantum physics either but I am intelligent enough to listen to a conversation and ask intelligent questions. It's called adult conversation and is used in socializing.

 

[connorreid]

And that is where you show your ignorance and arrogance in one sentence. Spiritual things are not the sole property of the christian religion. They may be in your mind ,but are not in the real world. What I will not accept is christianity ,especially your peculiar brand. If you attended the philosophy classes you took , you should be able to understand the thought process. Instead your major rebuttal is because others don't believe as you do they cannot be spiritual . It's like saying because I am a John Birch advocate I can't understand politics. While I may not be in the majority ,it in no way diminishes my ability to understand ,discuss , or even debate with a democrat or republican.
I don't have a clue about quantum physics either but I am intelligent enough to listen to a conversation and ask intelligent questions. It's called adult conversation and is used in socializing.

Who are you talking to? If me, I never said or proposed what you put down (so don't know where you got it from). Anybody can go back and read every comment I've made on all threads and quickly see I never said any of that. I don't accept you particular view of the world either (so now we are even)......I thought you were going to put me on your ignore list. Please do.

 

[earl]

The difference between putting forth your view and just ranting is a skill that some here would do well to polish. The acidity and hatefulness expressed may be the christian way but it is not the spiritual way .imho.

 

[connorreid]

The difference between putting forth your view and just ranting is a skill that some here would do well to polish. The acidity and hatefulness expressed may be the christian way but it is not the spiritual way .imho.

Your own words actually describe very well what you have been doing.

I'm am moving on to some other topics and discussions with others - we aren't getting anywhere so I'll give it a rest. You may get the last word in if you like. If it makes you feel better I'll submit and let you do that. Bye-bye.