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Straw Purchase??
- Thread starter Buck Nasty
- Start date
grim
Moderate Anarchist and Retired Mod
My wife bought me a shotgun before. She had written down the model number of a gun I was talking to a friend about and surprised me with it. She didnt know much more about the gun than that.
polaris30144
Senior Member
There is no law against buying a gun as a gift. My wife has bought a couple of guns for me as gifts and there never was a question of it being a Straw Purchase. She even told the dealer she was buying it as a gift for me, she filled out the paperwork, paid and walked out with the guns. I think too many try to over think the laws and interpret them as they see them instead of looking for real legal advice.
Miguel Cervantes
Jedi Master
It probably was covered before in this thread, but the only way it was a straw purchase is if he doesn't legally qualify to purchase a firearm himself, regardless of what language he speaks. Definitely a curious situation, but given the gist of what Packrat posted, there are bigger fish to fry on this topic. If the gentleman wanted a firearm for ill gotten reasons, there was no need to go to a dealer to get one, there are tons on the market available for purchase without going through the legal channels.
germag
Gone But Not Forgotten
That's not entirely correct. For instance, let's say that your neighbor can get a LE discount for a Glock if he buys it, but you can't. Both of you are legally eligible to purchase and possess firearms. You give your neighbor the cash to purchase the firearm and as a favor to you, he goes and buys it for you and fills aout all the paperwork as if he were buying it for himself. That is a straw purchase and can net you 5 in the federal pen.
It has nothing to do with eligibility. That's just the most common reason for people making straw purchases. The law says that the 4473 MUST be filled out by the actual purchaser. That's one of the very first questions on the form. If you answer "no" to that one, the sale is over.
If you are buying the gun as a gift for someone else, then you are the actual purchaser. If you are not buying it as a gift and you are not buying it for yourself, then it is a straw purchase...simple as that.
Miguel Cervantes
Jedi Master
germag
Gone But Not Forgotten
You took liberties with my phrasing and twisted it's intent.
I quoted you verbatim and didn't change a thing in your post so I'm not sure how I twisted anything....I certainly wasn't trying to. Here's what you said:
"the only way it was a straw purchase is if he doesn't legally qualify to purchase a firearm himself, regardless of what language he speaks. "
So, what was the intent? If I did twist something somehow, please accept my apologies....I was only pointing out what I saw as an incorrect statement on a fairly important point....certainly not trying to start anything.
Miguel Cervantes
Jedi Master
Eligibility implies privilege, not legal position, which would be correct if we were talking sales to special interest, but I am referencing the basis for the legal ability to buy a firearm to begin with, special interest eligibility is above and beyond the legal qualification.
germag
Gone But Not Forgotten
Yep, I understand that. But, the definition of "straw purchase" has nothing at all to do with legal ability or legal eligibility to purchase a firearm. The definition of "straw purchase" is making a firearms purchase on behalf of another person, whether or not they are legally able or eligible to purchase one for themselves. Whether you use the term "eligible" or "able" is a mmatter of semantics.
This cut/paste from Wiki explains it better:
In the context of United States federal gun laws, a straw purchase is defined as any purchase from a dealer holding a Federal Firearms License where the buyer conducting the transaction is acting as a proxy for another person. The law does not distinguish between someone who is purchasing on behalf of a person who legally cannot purchase or possess a firearm, and one who is not. In the United States, straw purchases are a felony violation of the Gun Control Act of 1968 for both the straw purchaser (who can also be charged with lying on Federal Form 4473) and the ultimate possessor. One of the questions on Form 4473 is “I am the buyer of this firearm” and the purchaser must answer honestly yes or no, by checking the appropriate box in ink. However, purchase of a firearm as a bona fide gift for someone who can legally own such a firearm is permitted.
If you are a convicted felon, have been convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence, have been committed or adjudged as mentally defective, are or have been addicted to illegal drugs, have been dishonorably discharged from the U.S. military, you are not eligible to purchase, own, or possess firearms.
Miguel Cervantes
Jedi Master
You are correct.
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf
15. STRAW PURCHASES
Questions have arisen concerning the
lawfulness of firearms purchases from
licensees by persons who use a "straw
purchaser" (another person) to acquire
the firearms. Specifically, the actual
buyer uses the straw purchaser to execute
the Form 4473 purporting to show
that the straw purchaser is the actual
purchaser of the firearm. In some instances,
a straw purchaser is used because
the actual purchaser is prohibited
from acquiring the firearm. That is to
say, the actual purchaser is a felon or is
within one of the other prohibited categories
of persons who may not lawfully
acquire firearms or is a resident of a
State other than that in which the licensee's
business premises is located.
Because of his or her disability, the person
uses a straw purchaser who is not
prohibited from purchasing a firearm
from the licensee. In other instances,
neither the straw purchaser nor the actual
purchaser is prohibited from acquiring
the firearm.
In both instances, the straw purchaser
violates Federal law by making
false statements on Form 4473 to the
licensee with respect to the identity of
the actual purchaser of the firearm, as
well as the actual purchaser's residence
address and date of birth. The actual
purchaser who utilized the straw purchaser
to acquire a firearm has unlawfully
aided and abetted or caused the
making of the false statements. The
licensee selling the firearm under these
circumstances also violates Federal law
if the licensee is aware of the false
statements on the form. It is immaterial
that the actual purchaser and the straw
purchaser are residents of the State in
which the licensee's business premises
is located, are not prohibited from receiving
or possessing firearms, and
could have lawfully purchased firearms
from the licensee.
An example of an illegal straw purchase
is as follows: Mr. Smith asks Mr.
Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr.
Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the
money for the firearm. If Mr. Jones fills
out Form 4473, he violates the law by
falsely stating that he is the actual buyer
of the firearm. Mr. Smith also violates
the law because he has unlawfully aided
and abetted or caused the making of
false statements on the form.
Where a person purchases a firearm
with the intent of making a gift of the
firearm to another person, the person
making the purchase is indeed the true
purchaser. There is no straw purchaser
in these instances.
In the above example,if Mr. Jones had bought a firearm
with his own money to give to Mr. Smith
as a birthday present, Mr. Jones could
lawfully have completed Form 4473.
The use of gift certificates would also
not fall within the category of straw purchases.
The person redeeming the gift
certificate would be the actual purchaser
of the firearm and would be properly
reflected as such in the dealer's records.
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf
15. STRAW PURCHASES
Questions have arisen concerning the
lawfulness of firearms purchases from
licensees by persons who use a "straw
purchaser" (another person) to acquire
the firearms. Specifically, the actual
buyer uses the straw purchaser to execute
the Form 4473 purporting to show
that the straw purchaser is the actual
purchaser of the firearm. In some instances,
a straw purchaser is used because
the actual purchaser is prohibited
from acquiring the firearm. That is to
say, the actual purchaser is a felon or is
within one of the other prohibited categories
of persons who may not lawfully
acquire firearms or is a resident of a
State other than that in which the licensee's
business premises is located.
Because of his or her disability, the person
uses a straw purchaser who is not
prohibited from purchasing a firearm
from the licensee. In other instances,
neither the straw purchaser nor the actual
purchaser is prohibited from acquiring
the firearm.
In both instances, the straw purchaser
violates Federal law by making
false statements on Form 4473 to the
licensee with respect to the identity of
the actual purchaser of the firearm, as
well as the actual purchaser's residence
address and date of birth. The actual
purchaser who utilized the straw purchaser
to acquire a firearm has unlawfully
aided and abetted or caused the
making of the false statements. The
licensee selling the firearm under these
circumstances also violates Federal law
if the licensee is aware of the false
statements on the form. It is immaterial
that the actual purchaser and the straw
purchaser are residents of the State in
which the licensee's business premises
is located, are not prohibited from receiving
or possessing firearms, and
could have lawfully purchased firearms
from the licensee.
An example of an illegal straw purchase
is as follows: Mr. Smith asks Mr.
Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr.
Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the
money for the firearm. If Mr. Jones fills
out Form 4473, he violates the law by
falsely stating that he is the actual buyer
of the firearm. Mr. Smith also violates
the law because he has unlawfully aided
and abetted or caused the making of
false statements on the form.
Where a person purchases a firearm
with the intent of making a gift of the
firearm to another person, the person
making the purchase is indeed the true
purchaser. There is no straw purchaser
in these instances.
In the above example,if Mr. Jones had bought a firearm
with his own money to give to Mr. Smith
as a birthday present, Mr. Jones could
lawfully have completed Form 4473.
The use of gift certificates would also
not fall within the category of straw purchases.
The person redeeming the gift
certificate would be the actual purchaser
of the firearm and would be properly
reflected as such in the dealer's records.
germag
Gone But Not Forgotten
I wasn't trying to be argumentative or anything, but it's an important point that could potentialy get a person into hot water and a lot people don't fully understand it.
ASH556
Senior Member
Not true, see above^^^^
dawg2
AWOL ADMINISTRATOR
Not enough info to answer intelligently. Only pure speculation.
Can you do something now? Yes, you can call the store manager and talk to them about it and he can do some research.
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