The Truth about the Devil

[gordon 2]

We, meaning you and me, will have to make due with what we got...in the spirit. We must stop and pray and act in faithfulness to what is good. Our differences are our strengths like the limbs of the body, this body being our one church. We go from here not willing to find enemies, but friends and the poor who deserve what talent we have so they can be witness to God's will that all man should know devine justice.

We go from here with the kind words we can give a spouse for being a good mother. We smile and engage the stranger at our door. We will be earnest and honest in our dealings. We will cultivate our talents for the service of others and the Lord. We will work for peace. We shall be patient with the poor in spirit.

I'm going to rest. Its Sunday tommorrow.

 

[60Grit]

Scooter, I didn't write the article, so when it's referring to "we" as in Jews, it's because it was written by a Jew. I'm not Jewish, but their beliefs are closest to what I believe out of what religions I have studied as of yet

I have known many very well educated, very knowledgeable people in my brief lifetime. Many of them were what I call, perpetual students. Not in the sense that they observed and learned from life, but in the sense that they could not shed the college environment for the responsibility of real life. Ever the practitioners, never the applicators.

Knowledge is great and it is good that you are inquisitive to other religions and verse yourself in the history and theologies of their foundations. However knowledge without fear of the Lord is fruitless.

Myself, from personal experience, I will choose a thimble of faith in the one true God over an acre of knowledge of the many religions any day.

 

[matthewsman]

Somehow

When I read posts like this....I am reminded of a story in Genesis where a woman offered something forbidden to a man,and against his knowledge to the otherwise,he took what he shouldn't have.We would all do well to be mindful of the story of Adam and Eve right now, lest upon taking possesion of this womans latest offering given to her by the deceiver we all be led astray.........

That's all I have to say about that......

 

[Dixie Dawg]

When I read posts like this....I am reminded of a story in Genesis where a woman offered something forbidden to a man,and against his knowledge to the otherwise,he took what he shouldn't have.

Perhaps you should remind yourself again of the story in Genesis and read it to refresh your memory? The "man" knew very well he was not to take what was forbidden... they were both present when God gave the warning not to partake... but as in many cases today, the man pointed his finger to blame the woman, then played dumb and acted like he didn't know any better..... that he was somehow uncontrollably seduced into breaking the rules... Fortunately, God knew better then, as He does now...

In fact, in many biblical discussions, there is an idea that although Adam and Eve 'sinned' by eating the forbidden fruit, the greater sin was that they did not fess up and admit they did wrong, say they were sorry or ask to be forgiven; the greater sin was putting the blame on someone else and not being responsible for their own actions. Hence, no confession or repentance. Guess Adam didn't realize that when he pointed the finger at Eve, there were three other fingers pointing back at him And Eve, well she blamed the serpent (who Christians believe was the 'devil'). Neither one accepted responsibility. And this still happens today... Christians are always blaming the devil for leading them into temptation... 'the devil made me do it'. No, they were presented with a choice and they made their own decision. God created satan to be an adversary, but Christians have turned him into a scapegoat...

We would all do well to be mindful of the story of Adam and Eve right now, lest upon taking possesion of this womans latest offering given to her by the deceiver we all be led astray.........

That's all I have to say about that......

It seems everyone else is secure enough in their faith to discuss different theological ideas without the fear of being swayed from their convictions. If you are so concerned that you might be 'led astray' by something I post, Donnie, perhaps it's safest if you put me on 'ignore'. That way, you won't have to worry about being tempted to accept any of the 'forbidden offerings' I write on here.

I'm glad there are still some people on here who are mature enough to DISCUSS and DEBATE (as in the forum title) subjects and ideas of interest....

Gordon, I found your post regarding Job quite interesting and have printed it out for more study... although I always find your posts and Woodswalker's posts very thought-provoking and open-minded! Appreciate both of you and your ideas!

Bigtimber, not all Jews think Jesus was a 'terrible person'. And if any of them do, it is because the bible (Old Testament) says to stay away from anyone who tries to change the Law or lead Jews away from what God taught them through Moses. In fact, it says to kill them. Jesus did both: he changed the Law and wanted to lead the Jews away from what God told Moses. And as far as Jews having a low opinion of gentiles, I have and do know many Jews and your statement can't be further from the truth. Jews regard themselves as God's chosen people, after all the Torah was given to them, not to anyone else... but they don't go around telling everyone else that they are destined for an eternity of torture and torment if they don't accept and conform to Jewish beliefs... unlike Christians. And regarding the Talmud, do you know what it is? When reading the books of another religion, it most times helps to understand what it is that you're reading and what place it has in the religion. I know if you ever read any of the Zohar, you would probably be freaked out about that as well... but you need to understand what it is and what place it has in the Jewish religion before you make judgement on it.

Scooter, I'm not sure what you mean by having a 'fear of the Lord', but if you mean to be in awe of God and His power, I do have that. I have faith that God exists and created the earth and everything in it. I do not, however, fear or revere your Jesus, who was a man. That's where we differ. But I do always enjoy your posts as well, right along with Gordon and WW

 

[Bigtimber]

Bigtimber, not all Jews think Jesus was a 'terrible person'. And if any of them do, it is because the bible (Old Testament) says to stay away from anyone who tries to change the Law or lead Jews away from what God taught them through Moses. In fact, it says to kill them. Jesus did both: he changed the Law and wanted to lead the Jews away from what God told Moses. And as far as Jews having a low opinion of gentiles, I have and do know many Jews and your statement can't be further from the truth. Jews regard themselves as God's chosen people, after all the Torah was given to them, not to anyone else... but they don't go around telling everyone else that they are destined for an eternity of torture and torment if they don't accept and conform to Jewish beliefs... unlike Christians. And regarding the Talmud, do you know what it is? When reading the books of another religion, it most times helps to understand what it is that you're reading and what place it has in the religion. I know if you ever read any of the Zohar, you would probably be freaked out about that as well... but you need to understand what it is and what place it has in the Jewish religion before you make judgement on it.

QUOTE]

I don't think ALL of any religion could be lumped into one beleif. I'm saying what is in the Tamud, which is according to alot of Jews, the most sacred of there Holy books.



According to this Jewish religious site,http://www.religionfacts.com/judaism/texts/talmud.htm....... the Talmud is defined as...

a collection of rabbinical writings that interpret, explain and apply the Torah scriptures. The Talmud was written between the second and fifth century CE, but Orthodox Jews believe it was revealed to Moses along with the Torah and preseved orally until it was written down. The Talmud is thus known as the "Oral Torah," with the first five books of the Tanakh designated the "Written Torah."

In Orthodox Judaism, the Oral Torah is accepted as equally sacred, inspired, and authoritative as the Written Torah. One of the aims of Orthodox Judaism in Israel is to establish Talmudic law as the state law of Israel. Elsewhere in the world, Orthodox Jews submit themselves voluntarily to Talmudic law and the rabbinic court system, especially in matters of dietary and ritual law, marriage and divorce, and social work.

So Orthodox Judaism follows the Talmud to the letter..period.

It does express that conservative Judaism do not follow it to the letter but it plays an important role....

The Talmud also plays an important role in Conservative Judaism, although it is viewed as an evolutionary process that changes with the times. Both professional and lay Talmudic scholarship is dedicated to determining the proper response to modern issues by intensive study of the Talmud.

And reform Judaism doesn't put much faith in it at all....

Reform Judaism officially rejects the Talmud as an entirely human invention reflecting medieval thought and values.

So alot, but not all of the Jewish religion, does follow the Talmud law with the exception of the reform Judaism movement. According to 1990 survey, 42 percent of American Jews regard themselves as Reform, according to this website
http://www.religionfacts.com/judaism/denominations/reform.htm

With that said, the Tamud law does say that Jesus and his mother virgin Mary were HORRIBLE people in the Talmud and does have a VERY low opinion of those who are not Jewish in many, many horrible ways among other things that would make most peoples skin crawl.
Certainly not all Jewish people are like this and I'm certainly not implying that. Alot of there core beliefs, expressed in the Talmud, are not in line with ours.
Perhaps I am off base as I am certainly no expert. Perhaps I could learn something from you about the Talmuds place in there religion or otherwise and maybe we could both learn something new.

 

[justthinking]

"I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me. And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

"I do not accept praise from men, but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. I have come in my Father's name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him. - John 5:36-43

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. - John 14: 6-7

By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked:
Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.
- Isaiah 45:23

 

[Wire Nut]

MAYBE THE WORD CHRIST WAS LEFT OUT OF CHRISTIAN BECAUSE A LITTLE GUILT IS FELT FOR WHAT HAPPENED 2007 yrs. ago. Don't feel so guilty it was God's plan.

 

[Dixie Dawg]

MAYBE THE WORD CHRIST WAS LEFT OUT OF CHRISTIAN BECAUSE A LITTLE GUILT IS FELT FOR WHAT HAPPENED 2007 yrs. ago. Don't feel so guilty it was God's plan.

What would Jews have to feel guilty about?

Even if they DID kill Jesus, they were instructed by God in Deuteronomy chapter 13 to kill anyone who tried to teach something different than what the Law said. And everything out of Jesus' mouth was, "I know the Law says ___, but I tell you ___." He tried to change everything. So what is it you think they should feel guilty about?

It is funny how Christians think the Jews are being punished for not believing in Jesus, when that is exactly what the ORIGINAL TESTAMENT told them to do!