bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
The different religions and especially the splinter groups/denominations within that all differ from slightly to 180deg remind me of the people who say "I am Pro 2nd Amendment, *but* ...."
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This deity is "the real deal" - obviously
- Thread starter oldfella1962
- Start date
Spotlite
Resident Homesteader
What is poisoning the well?
If it’s the send me money preachers then yea - it’s worth to them financially.
If it’s believing in a super natural for their own benefit / personal walk……that’s not poisoning any well.
hopper
Senior Member
I agree. It was in reference to one of the OP's post. Probably a few up from mine.
Here it is:
The realty-based universe is amazing as it is and seems more amazing the more we explore it - so why poison the well by adding
our own unproven supernatural ideas and calling them "facts"
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oldfella1962
Senior Member
Yes - that is what I mean. Back when we had no (or few) answers to anything - to include human behavior in many cases - superstitions and supernatural answers were as good as any explanation. But once scientific knowledge exploded exponentially, and more importantly we had a method - a process - to organize our knowledge and sort fact from fiction - we could shift towards a reality-based worldview.I agree. It was in reference to one of the OP's post. Probably a few up from mine.
Here it is:
The realty-based universe is amazing as it is and seems more amazing the more we explore it - so why poison the well by adding
our own unproven supernatural ideas and calling them "facts"
oldfella1962
Senior Member
With the way some believers (Protestant Christianity specifically) combine politics with religion in America, I'm amazed there aren't even more denominations popping up.
Maybe that is happening but I'm unaware of it. I'll research it.
hopper
Senior Member
What are your thoughts on the possibilities, human need to explain the unknown, learned behaviors, somthing in our make up ??
oldfella1962
Senior Member
I think it's a random gene mutation (or several) further back in our evolution that jump-started our tendency for curiosity, creativity, and other uniquely "human" mental capabilities myself.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
As mentioned to explain the unexplainable such as eternity with no beginning nor end. It's kind of hard for people, including me, to think something has always been here. Even harder to understand is that life will always exist.
The short answer is we want, or think we want, eternal life. I wonder how many religions on that list promise eternal life.
I've heard some folks say that they believe in the Christian God to escape eternal punishment. That they don't really care about eternal life that much.
WaltL1
Senior Member
All of the above.
And I also dont discount the possibility that at one point way back when, our ancestors had some sort of interaction with what they believed was a god of some sort. Seems like about as far back as you can go there are drawings/tales/beliefs of a "god/supernatural" type thing.
So since we cant 100% rule that out, I leave it open as a possibility.
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
Or were they praising, talking to, paying respects to dead relatives and leaders?
I think we've all said a little something to a deceased family member, maybe asked for guidance...etc.
oldfella1962
Senior Member
Very interesting, and I have this (probably unusual) idea about "eternity" as it concerns ancient people, and to a lesser extent young earth creationists, but can include anyone who thinks that our consciousness goes on after we die :
a couple of thousand years ago did anyone really understand just how old the universe was, or even our planet? In other words, without a concept of millions or billions of years behind us, how could they really understand millions and billions of years ahead of us?
If you can only imagine a world as about as old as you can trace your ancestors back, I really don't think you would have any concept of incredibly long time periods involving millions, billions, trillions, etcetera of years. And in the year 2023 CE if you believe that the planet (and the universe since everything was created in six days) is only 6,000 or so years old I guess it's possible to imagine eternity being 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000+ years in the future and living that long, but I think it would be hard to fathom. Just something I've thought about from time-to-time.
oldfella1962
Senior Member
You never know. And generally, the further back we go in time, the less evidence we have. And the really old stuff could be the stuff that explains the whole story! It's very frustrating.
WaltL1
Senior Member
Very possible.
That may be the inception of "praying".
WaltL1
Senior Member
Yep.
Ive come to accept I'm not going to know for a fact in my life time.
In the mean time I can only go with what makes the most sense based on the available evidence.
oldfella1962
Senior Member
I am cautiously optimistic that I will live long enough the two major scientific discoveries that I am the most excited about to be revealed. Those are life outside the universe, and abiogenesis. Of the two, I would venture to say that the most likely discovery is abiogenesis. My reasoning is abiogenesis would have the strongest "hands-on" evidence and repeatability since we have research labs devoted to this subject in many countries as we speak, so independently testing the process of creating it - and undergoing peer review - would be easier. There are no great financial or logistical hurdles to overcome like there are in getting actual samples (no just data that can be misinterpreted or mistaken). In other words, bringing back actual in a container samples of living things from planets and moons is extremely costly, and takes months or years just to get the samples returned to Earth started in testing samples thoroughly.
As for abiogenesis we know how the required building chemical building blocks are made, and we can even make them. There are great strides in chemical evolution being made, along with the already established biological evolution. Eventually scientists will discover that "X Factor" that they are overlooking. IMHO it could be that the process from "non-living" to "living" is verrrrrrry gradual, so an obvious "Eureka!" moment may never occur. Already viruses and viroids kind of "bridge the gap" being non-living at the point that their chemical evolution is complete, but they cannot generate any internal energy without a host, at which point they become "living" as science defines it. Eventually (hopefully before I die!)
some scientists will find another way to think about it, and science will see what was right in front of their eyes the whole time.
660griz
Senior Member
Even today, I imagine there are more than a few folks that when questioned by a child, etc, about a topic they don't really know, will make up an answer so they continue to appear all knowing or of an all-knowing stature.
If you can't explain it, blame the unexplainable. Something about saying, "I don't know." has some seriously negative connotations for some. God knew how we are. Duh! Thall shalt have no other gods before me. You have got to monopolize or miss out on the tithings.
oldfella1962
Senior Member
Speaking of "no other gods before me" many Biblical scholars/mythicists/historians/etcetera think that commandment was concocted (by humans of course) because polytheism was still a thing among the early Israelites, and they needed to put the kibosh on it to better unite the Israelites. The Torah and some of the Old Testament very much functions as an "origin story" for the Israelites. But remnants of polytheismEven today, I imagine there are more than a few folks that when questioned by a child, etc, about a topic they don't really know, will make up an answer so they continue to appear all knowing or of an all-knowing stature.
God knew how we are. Duh! Thall shalt have no other gods before me. You have got to monopolize or miss out on the tithings.
abound in the Old Testament as evidenced by "God" being called Yahweh, Elohim, Jehovah, and some other names, with varying characteristics. Eventually all the gods were rolled up into Yahweh. It's really quite involved and fascinating!
BassMan31
Senior Member
i love scrolling through threads where old dudes write voluminous tomes full of sound and fury about gods they claim to not believe in. seems like a real waste of time. go fishing, or something. if your unbelief brings you so much peace... prove it.
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
The fact that people are here talking about it is proof.
We fish, hunt, shoot, and all the other good stuff too.
One day when you become an old dude you will have learned how to multi-task also.
oldfella1962
Senior Member
I can't speak for everybody, but I can talk & chew gum at the same time.
In other words, I can fish (or partake in various activities) and also discuss things I am fascinated with. Some people talk about sports "with sound & fury". Are these people any more or less "peaceful" than I am?To me the fact that billions of people have thousands of different religions all claiming to be "the real truth" - yet all of them that I am aware of are in direct conflict with reality as I know it - is worth investigating further. I've wasted more time on less worthy endeavors that's for sure!
