What are your feelings on once saved always saved.

[centerpin fan]

Just one example
Luke 4:4:

KJV: "And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God."

NASV: "And Jesus answered him, “It is written, “MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE.”

Just saying, be careful that you are taught with Gods word
I Peter 1:23-25 “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the Word of the Lord endureth forever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”

Various translations are obviously different, but no translation has changed my view on the subject.

I started out reading the KJV and have been reading it again for the last year ... and still don't believe in OSAS.

Over the years, I've read the NIV, NASB, and NKJV ... and never believed in OSAS.

 

[hummerpoo]

Noting the forum rules, I'm not going to get into any "My favorite Bible" discussion, and probably wouldn't anyway. But I will say that I don't think that comparing verse to verse even scratches the surface.

I read the post identified "05-20-2009, 11:04 AM" here
http://www.puritanboard.com/showthread.php/48546-NASB-vs-KJV
and I think the writer identifies the questions one need to consider when choosing a particular Bible translation for their particular purpose. Probably the first is Byzantine or Alexandrian.

A couple of personal notes:
* Stay away from all Study Bibles, unless you use them as you would any other commentary (Some guys opinion).
*Have at least three regularly used Bibles of different translations.
*Cross-references and text notes are good. My first pick up Bible has 95,000.
* I don't care for parapharses.

 

[spwatz]

Truth never contradicts itself. It does not require mental gymnastic to try and explain it away.

Believed in vain means that the belief is worthless, even though at one time it was providing salvation, that salvation was conditional on continuing to stand according to I Cor 15.

It would have been better for some people to have never known the way of righteousness and escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ according to 2 Pet 2.

Some people have been severed from Christ and fallen from grace according to Gal 5. All spiritual blessings are in Christ according to Eph 1:3, so there are zero spiritual blessings outside of Christ. There is only one way to get INTO Christ according to scripture for those that are willing to search it out.

I have studied this topic for years and cannot find one shred of evidence to support the notion that OSAS is true. The bible has hundreds of passages that refute this idea and support the idea that we must continue on living for God, continue to confess our sins to him, to be obedient to His word and so on.

Actually, I have about given up on message boards like this because I find them to nearly be a complete waste of time. People will not accept the simple truth but will defend error at all cost because that is what they have always believed or been taught or for other reasons.

People don't really want the truth, they want to be "right" in their own eyes.

I Cor 1:10 I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.

Is this possible? Did God give us a command we cannot keep? For this to be possible, we can't depend on "I think" or "I feel", but we must base our judgments on what God said. He doesn't contradict Himself. If you find a scripture that contradicts another, then you don't have a proper understanding. You must dig, be diligent, seek, and study. God required that we diligently seek him (Heb 11:6). If we disagree, one, or both, of us is wrong.

If we can't agree that OSAS is false based on plain scriptures such as Gal 5:4, 2 Pet 2:20-22, I Cor 15:1-2 or even Jas 5:19-20 then we have no chance of fulfilling the command in I Cor 1:10.

Y'all have a nice day.

 

[spwatz]

Oh, and I can use KJV, NKJV, NASB, ASV, ESV or even the NIV and still show that OSAS is false. The conclusion is NOT version dependent.

 

[hobbs27]

Oh, and I can use KJV, NKJV, NASB, ASV, ESV or even the NIV and still show that OSAS is false. The conclusion is NOT version dependent.

What's so eternal about the gift of eternal life if you have the power to lose it?

 

[spwatz]

Matt 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

When is eternal life or eternal punishment determined? If someone is bound for eternal punishment on this earth, does he have any way to change his course and outcome?

Some will go away into eternal punishment.
Some will go away into eternal life.

We have a hope of eternal life. Titus 3:7, "so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life."

Jesus said in Rev 2:10, ".... Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life."

What if you aren't faithful unto death? If OSAS were actually true, this admonition to remain faithful is meaningless.

The Hebrew writer says, "And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him" - Heb 5:9

Eternal salvation is for those who OBEY!!! If a person stops obeying, stops confessing their sins to God, and just stops trying, why would that person expect to receive the eternal salvation?

Just as the one who is bound for eternal punishment can change and be forgiven and escape their "eternal punishment", so can one wander off from the truth (Jas 5), become entangled again (2 Pet 2), can be severed from Christ and fall from grace (Gal 5) and have believed in vain (I Cor 15).

 

[spwatz]

Matt 7:13-14 Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

What is easier than just believe and once you do you can never be lost? I don't know how much wider that gate could be? How is that a "hard" way????

God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him (Heb 11:6). For some one to believe and "accept Jesus into his heart" (whatever that means, because it is certainly not scriptural) and then be saved forever no matter what type of lifestyle they live certainly does not sound like the narrow gate that Jesus describes that is hard to find.

Diligence takes work and effort. It is a continuance of effort. It is not a one time deal.

 

[welderguy]

Matt 7:13-14 Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

What is easier than just believe and once you do you can never be lost? I don't know how much wider that gate could be? How is that a "hard" way????

God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him (Heb 11:6). For some one to believe and "accept Jesus into his heart" (whatever that means, because it is certainly not scriptural) and then be saved forever no matter what type of lifestyle they live certainly does not sound like the narrow gate that Jesus describes that is hard to find.

Diligence takes work and effort. It is a continuance of effort. It is not a one time deal.

What you describe is a salvation based on man's works.
And worse, you are in essence saying Jesus loved you for a while,but then when you messed up He decided to stop loving you.

I lean on this promise:

Mal.3:6
"For I am the Lord God,I change not.Therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed."

 

[Artfuldodger]

Romans 11:29-31
29For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable. 30Just as you who formerly disobeyed God have now received mercy through their disobedience, 31so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you.

 

[j_seph]

scenario: You are saved, and say it was possible to live straight by the bible, perfectly. You have lived this way for 40 years, your driving home lets say from Sunday morning service, you runoff the road, killing someone either in your car or on side of road and you die instantly as well. The bible tells us Thou shalt not kill. Yet it is your fault you ran off the road and "killed" someone. Are you going to H e l l because of what you did?

 

[centerpin fan]

scenario: You are saved, and say it was possible to live straight by the bible, perfectly. You have lived this way for 40 years, your driving home lets say from Sunday morning service, you runoff the road, killing someone either in your car or on side of road and you die instantly as well. The bible tells us Thou shalt not kill. Yet it is your fault you ran off the road and "killed" someone. Are you going to H e l l because of what you did?

IMO ... no.

Still don't believe in OSAS, though. YMMV.

 

[spwatz]

I do NOT believe in a works based salvation. Let me be clear. Man earns exactly zero percent of his salvation. I do believe obedience is required but obedience is not meritorious.

When Naaman was told to wash in the Jordan, he did not earn his cure from leprosy. If that was the case, then everyone who had leprosy could do what he did and God would owe it to them to cure them.

When God gave Jericho to the children of Israel (Josh 6:2), He had instructions for them. When they obeyed, the walls fell by faith (Heb 11:30).

And J seph, I do not believe in a ping pong salvation. Consider I John 1:7-9, "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness"

Notice vs 7, walking in the light and sin. That does not mean that we are sinless while walking in the light, just cleansed. The blood keeps on cleaning us while we are in the light.

Notice all the conditional statements. What if we stop walking in the light? What if we stop confessing our sins?

Oh, and it's not a matter of God or Jesus stopping from loving us. God loves the sinner and sent his Son, yet most men are lost. God loves the sinner that is going to CensoredCensoredCensoredCensored and wants him to be saved (I Tim 2:4).

It's not a matter of God not loving us, but more a matter of us not loving God.

John 14:15 - If you love me, you will keep my commandments

I John 5:2-3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.

Can it be truthfully said that we love God if we have absolutely no desire to obey Him???

I know a guy who believes in OSAS. He accepted Jesus into his heart when he was younger (not a biblical teaching) and now he cusses like a sailor, drinks and gets drunk, has no desire to attend any type of worship, acknowledges that there is a God but does absolutely nothing in trying to obey Him.

Again, nobody has addressed the passages but rather have come up with hypothetical questions and tried to tell me what I believe.

Mental gymnastics are required to try and explain away the clear teaching in scripture. One passage will never negate another. Both are true. If they contradict in your mind, then you don't have a good understanding of one or both of them.

Severed from Christ means that one was joined with Christ, then severed.

Fallen from grace means that you were once in grace but no longer.

James talks about saving a brother from death after he has wandered from the truth. There is only one obvious conclusion for this passage at the end of James 5.

This is not that hard. Why resist plain teaching? If you need help to misunderstand a passage, then what are your real motives?

2 Pet 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21 For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

What is the OBVIOUS meaning of this passage?

I Cor 15:1 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, 2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

What is the obvious meaning of this passage. What does it mean to have "believed in vain"??????

 

[welderguy]

A more thorough study of Hebrews will show you how much better and complete the sacrifice of Jesus' blood is than anything man can do.

It says we are NOT of those who fall back unto perdition.He's speaking of those that have been made just,who live by faith.Who've had God's laws written in their hearts.And who have been saved to the uttermost.

It is possible for a child of God to miss entering into rest in this life,through a heart of unbelief,but the Hebrew writer is not speaking of eternal rest but a rest in this life.

Moses didn't lose his salvation,even though he wasn't allowed to enter the promised land.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Late arriving to the show. Sorry.

To those who think it possible to lose your salvation I ask this:

What did you have to do with earning it? Nothing. It's a gift that you didn't earn, wasn't yours to give and isn't yours to return nor lose and if God was gonna take it back why did he save you in the first place, because he definitely knew what your future held when he initially granted it and he's not in the habit of playing shell games or carnival tricks.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Late arriving to the show. Sorry.

To those who think it possible to lose your salvation I ask this:

What did you have to do with earning it? Nothing. It's a gift that you didn't earn, wasn't yours to give and isn't yours to return nor lose and if God was gonna take it back why did he save you in the first place, because he definitely knew what you future held when he initially granted it and he's not in the habit of playing she'll games or carnival tricks.

Yes I know it's a run-on sentence.....or two.

 

[gordon 2]

Late arriving to the show. Sorry.

To those who think it possible to lose your salvation I ask this:

What did you have to do with earning it? Nothing. It's a gift that you didn't earn, wasn't yours to give and isn't yours to return nor lose and if God was gonna take it back why did he save you in the first place, because he definitely knew what your future held when he initially granted it and he's not in the habit of playing shell games or carnival tricks.

You did not do anything to gain salvation? If something that is gifted need's no acceptance, which is something akin to extending the hand and taking possession of the gift. No need of taking possession of grace?

If I'm right and your wrong, which is doubtful that you will see me being right, but yet if I'm right that indeed you must get yourself in the way to get the gift, ( which is free otherwise it would not be a gift) then it follows that equally following your logic it is that salvation can be dropped by the receiver and in some rare cases not gifted back.

So to those who say they cannot lose salvation, then I must ask you this:

Why do you bother with fellowship and pray for brothers you say are now "lost"? Why do you care to even listen to a brother say, "Will Jesus save my nation from our backsliding ways?" Why do you grieve for what is lost that once was your gain? and then say it is impossible to lose it once it is gained?

You will say "ah "they" never had"? And I will say yes, some never take possession of the gift and some on account they need not, being told by cleverness instead of wisdom they need not.

Which is mine a christian who's heart is mine or one who's mouth is their's.

 

[hobbs27]

What is the obvious meaning of this passage. What does it mean to have "believed in vain"??????

To have never truly believed at all.

Churches are full of preachers, elders, deacons and lay members that believe in vain.

That's why I prefer the , If saved always saved.

 

[gordon 2]

To have never truly believed at all.

Churches are full of preachers, elders, deacons and lay members that believe in vain.

That's why I prefer the , If saved always saved.

How did you get to know this? What is this based on?

 

[Artfuldodger]

Why would someone profess Christ as their Savior and join a Church if they never believed at all?

 

[j_seph]

Why would someone profess Christ as their Savior and join a Church if they never believed at all?

To be looked upon differently, it takes more than Church membership and your mouth saying it.

Romans 10:9
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.