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What are your feelings on once saved always saved.
- Thread starter j_seph
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Artfuldodger
Senior Member
hobbs27
Senior Member
? haha.
centerpin fan
Senior Member
You never bet your eternal salvation on a pair of kings. I wouldn't even go there unless I had at least three of a kind.
Israel
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hobbs27
Senior Member
gordon 2
Senior Member
Someone should copy this and frame it. They are two very well formed sentences in structure and with one great meaning... They could season many things literary... and more...
All of God's People pray that the promised time of seeing clearly is near.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
Colossians 2:11
In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ,
In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ,
speedcop
Senior Member
I believe that if you acknowledge that Christ died for your sin debt, and rose from the grave to show dominion over hades and death with all your heart and repent with the mouth your sins you have been added as one of God's children. I also believe that God tells us no one can take us away from the love of God except blasphemy, which to my understanding of the word is to "deny Christ". We all will continue to sin till death because we are sinfull in nature. But Christ's sacrifice on the cross and the GIFT of grace from God he remembers our sins no more.
However, even though we have a relationship with God, which is our salvation we can loose our "fellowship" with God because of our sin and actions. God will turn his ear away from us if we jeapordize the fellowship. So, my firm belief is yes you can loose that salvation by denying Christ, and we can loose our fellowship by premeditated or purposely sining. The great thing about God, he takes repeat offenders.
However, even though we have a relationship with God, which is our salvation we can loose our "fellowship" with God because of our sin and actions. God will turn his ear away from us if we jeapordize the fellowship. So, my firm belief is yes you can loose that salvation by denying Christ, and we can loose our fellowship by premeditated or purposely sining. The great thing about God, he takes repeat offenders.
j_seph
Senior Member
well said, he never leaves us yet we try to walk away from him at times and he is still right there. We have a guy in our church who fell on rough times. He was called to preach before those times in his life hit. He would put his bible away in the basement so that it was not an easy task to just pick it up. The Lord would deal with him so much that he would have to go dig it out and see what he was being told just to be able to go to sleep. He even carried it and gave it to a guy he worked with to try and get rid of Gods word. Yup Christ was right there with him the whole time and here was having to go to the guys house to get his bible to get back in the word. Conviction, that is what will keep us from the same sin over and over. Our reminder that he is with us always and forever if we accepted him. Without him we do not have the conviction and I would take that 3 of a kind over a pair of kings anyday, The Father The Son and The holy Spirit.OSAS is not a teaching in scripture, it is a false teaching of man.
I Cor 15:1-2 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain
If you understand the meaning of the word "if" then you can understand a conditional statement. So what is the conditional statement of this verse? How it is possible to have received the word, stand in the word, being saved in the word and yet believed in vain? You have to hold fast otherwise, you believed in vain.
Isn't the obvious conclusion of this passage is that salvation is a condition of holding fast to the word, otherwise, if you don't hold fast to the word, you have believed in vain and you are no longer being saved?
The bible is full of conditional statements. Also, there is a requirement of obedience such as is found in Heb 5:9, "And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him." What about those who stop obeying him?
Also Jn 3:16 says "should" not "will". You should not go out in the rain without an umbrella. Doesn't mean you can't. No one can pluck you from his hand, but doesn't mean you can't walk away.
I Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
What if we don't? If He still forgives us our sins without a confession, this verse is meaningless.
2 Pet 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21 For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”
You have to have help to mis-understand these verses.
IF OSAS were actually true, it could NEVER be true that it would have been better to have never known the way of righteousness.
Jas 5: 19-20, My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, 20 let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
A brother that wanders off is called a sinner that is bound for death, not physical death cause nobody can escape that but as James has already described the death that results from sin is a spiritual death (Jas 1:15).
Heb 6:4-9 certainly describes a falling away.
Gal 5:4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
You cannot fall away from a place you have never been. You cannot be severed from that which you were never connected.
So, you can be severed from Christ and fall from grace or else this warning is meaningless and false.
I could go on, but I won't. The mental gymnastics required to "explain away" the clear teaching of scripture is not something I want to be a part of.
I Cor 15:1-2 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain
If you understand the meaning of the word "if" then you can understand a conditional statement. So what is the conditional statement of this verse? How it is possible to have received the word, stand in the word, being saved in the word and yet believed in vain? You have to hold fast otherwise, you believed in vain.
Isn't the obvious conclusion of this passage is that salvation is a condition of holding fast to the word, otherwise, if you don't hold fast to the word, you have believed in vain and you are no longer being saved?
The bible is full of conditional statements. Also, there is a requirement of obedience such as is found in Heb 5:9, "And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him." What about those who stop obeying him?
Also Jn 3:16 says "should" not "will". You should not go out in the rain without an umbrella. Doesn't mean you can't. No one can pluck you from his hand, but doesn't mean you can't walk away.
I Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
What if we don't? If He still forgives us our sins without a confession, this verse is meaningless.
2 Pet 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21 For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”
You have to have help to mis-understand these verses.
IF OSAS were actually true, it could NEVER be true that it would have been better to have never known the way of righteousness.
Jas 5: 19-20, My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, 20 let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
A brother that wanders off is called a sinner that is bound for death, not physical death cause nobody can escape that but as James has already described the death that results from sin is a spiritual death (Jas 1:15).
Heb 6:4-9 certainly describes a falling away.
Gal 5:4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
You cannot fall away from a place you have never been. You cannot be severed from that which you were never connected.
So, you can be severed from Christ and fall from grace or else this warning is meaningless and false.
I could go on, but I won't. The mental gymnastics required to "explain away" the clear teaching of scripture is not something I want to be a part of.
j_seph
Senior Member
Read a little deerper about faith, not sure which bible you are using but I ask that you compare some with the KJV
I know all about faith, trust me. Faith is doing what God said.
Jas 2 tells us faith without works is dead and even the demons believe.
Heb 11 shows us that faith is doing what God said. For example, Heb 11:30 - By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they had been encircled for seven days.
How did the walls fall down? By faith. What does that mean? They received instruction, they obeyed those instructions and the walls fell. How did they fall? They did what God said and they fell by faith.
Noah received instructions and built an ark. He did what God said. He built the ark by faith according to Heb 11:7.
Still, the bible is easy to understand on the topic of OSAS. You can fall from grace, be severed from Christ (Which also agrees with Rom 11 about the branches being broken off), you can become entangled again and overcome, can err from the way and be headed toward death with a multitude of sins on his account and so on.
The bible is filled with conditional statements.
How many times does God have to say something for it to be true?
I Cor 15:1-2, Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, 2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
Someone explain to me how someone that has received the gospel and is standing in the gospel and is being saved by the gospel, can believe in vain if OSAS were true.
Jas 2 tells us faith without works is dead and even the demons believe.
Heb 11 shows us that faith is doing what God said. For example, Heb 11:30 - By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they had been encircled for seven days.
How did the walls fall down? By faith. What does that mean? They received instruction, they obeyed those instructions and the walls fell. How did they fall? They did what God said and they fell by faith.
Noah received instructions and built an ark. He did what God said. He built the ark by faith according to Heb 11:7.
Still, the bible is easy to understand on the topic of OSAS. You can fall from grace, be severed from Christ (Which also agrees with Rom 11 about the branches being broken off), you can become entangled again and overcome, can err from the way and be headed toward death with a multitude of sins on his account and so on.
The bible is filled with conditional statements.
How many times does God have to say something for it to be true?
I Cor 15:1-2, Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, 2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
Someone explain to me how someone that has received the gospel and is standing in the gospel and is being saved by the gospel, can believe in vain if OSAS were true.
The gospel is not the same thing as the Word(which is Jesus--"...in the beginning was the Word,and the Word was with God,and the Word was God")
The Word is what saves eternally.
The gospel saves temporally(in this life)
Two different salvations.
When you study scripture,its very important to recognize the distinction between these two salvations.Otherwise,there will be confusion.
centerpin fan
Senior Member
I don't think Bible version has anything to do with it.
j_seph
Senior Member
Just one example
Luke 4:4:
KJV: "And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God."
NASV: "And Jesus answered him, “It is written, “MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE.”
Just saying, be careful that you are taught with Gods word
I Peter 1:23-25 “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the Word of the Lord endureth forever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”
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