If a virus killed your daughter but not you, could you witness on the power of prayer?

[tvillenole]

My mother in law is a very devoted god fearing woman. We were having a conversation when she came up to visit a few weeks back. This is pretty much what she said...When her mother fell ill last year she prayed and prayed for her and regardless she passed a few days later from something she probably shouldn't have. She was having doubts because her prayers weren't answered. She was speaking to one of the elders at church who told her that in fact her prayers were answered because her mother was no longer suffering and was now in heaven. She now feels good about it because she thinks her prayers actually were answered. I had to bite my tongue and call it a night.

 

[kmh1031]

The religious leaders today do not teach the Truths of the bible......thus the reason they cannot answer why bad things happen, death, or why prayers not all answered.

Here is a link on Are your prayers answered:

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1972481?q=prayers+answered?&p=doc

James 1:13 helps with the fact that God does not bring death, or calamity upon us:
"When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone

Also Romans 5:12 shows why we ALL die:
That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned.

The condition of the dead Ecc 9:5-9

For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten.

What happens to the dead? John 5:28-29

Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.


Note that dead not in heaven, but in the memorial tombs.....IF in heaven, then would they be placed back in memorial tombs??? for this scripture to be fulfilled?

Todays clergy is not teaching the truths of the bible.

Note part of a future prophesy...that will be fullfilled here on earth:
Rev 21:3-4

With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them.
4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be any more The former things have passed away.

No more death, sickness, crime, etc etc....here on earth...

Ps 37 shows this as well as over 100 more scriptures, and prophesies that show the earth to be restored, death sickness gone, and all gods righteous subjects living forever on earth as originally planned....

 

[NCHillbilly]

The religious leaders today do not teach the Truths of the bible......thus the reason they cannot answer why bad things happen, death, or why prayers not all answered.

Here is a link on Are your prayers answered:

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1972481?q=prayers+answered?&p=doc

James 1:13 helps with the fact that God does not bring death, or calamity upon us:
"When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone

Also Romans 5:12 shows why we ALL die:
That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned.

The condition of the dead Ecc 9:5-9

For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten.

What happens to the dead? John 5:28-29

Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.


Note that dead not in heaven, but in the memorial tombs.....IF in heaven, then would they be placed back in memorial tombs??? for this scripture to be fulfilled?

Todays clergy is not teaching the truths of the bible.

Note part of a future prophesy...that will be fullfilled here on earth:
Rev 21:3-4

With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them.
4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be any more The former things have passed away.

No more death, sickness, crime, etc etc....here on earth...

Ps 37 shows this as well as over 100 more scriptures, and prophesies that show the earth to be restored, death sickness gone, and all gods righteous subjects living forever on earth as originally planned....

Ol' Job might have something to say about that. Amidst rubbing his boils. Or all the people that were drowned in the Great Flood. Or all them dead Philistines.

 

[kmh1031]

God did not test job, but it was Satan. god did give the ones in flood over 90 years to repent and listen to Noah, and the Philistines were coming against gods people and they were also pagan worshiping peiple
Look up some of their practices.
God has not held back from punishing or destroying unrighteous people after giving a warning and sufficient time
Take a look at sodom Gomorrah or the activities before flood.
Exact Same thing going on now with the warning before armegedden which is Gods war against the govts false religion and the unrighteous

 

[oldfella1962]

Ol' Job might have something to say about that. Amidst rubbing his boils. Or all the people that were drowned in the Great Flood. Or all them dead Philistines.

a really extreme example would be the Jews when Hitler was running wild. They have about 6,000,000 reasons to think that maybe being god's "chosen people" isn't always all it's cracked up to be. Just sayin'

 

[kmh1031]

they have not been gods chosen people for thousands of years

Centuries ago, God told the Israelites: “If you will strictly obey my voice and will indeed keep my covenant, then you will certainly become my special property out of all other peoples, because the whole earth belongs to me. And you yourselves will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.”

But was this special relationship with God unconditional? No!
Note God had said: “If you will strictly obey my voice . . . then you will certainly become my special property

So Despite having received special favor as God’s chosen people, in the past, the majority of the Israelites abandoned the true worship of God
What was Gods reaction?

“I shall no more show mercy again to the house of Israel, because I shall positively take them away. . . . You men are not my people and I myself shall prove to be not yours.” Hosea 1:6,9
Thus, those apostate Israelites would not remain in God’s favor nor his chosen people

 

[Spotlite]

“If a virus killed your daughter but not you, could you witness on the power of prayer?”

That ^^^ question is really hitting home right now. We began a journey on September 26 when my brother was taken to ER, admitted into ICU for internal bleeding and eventually diagnosed with non alcoholic cirrhosis of the liver.

The call we didn’t want came at 11:30pm last tonight - “this is nurse ……you need to bring your mom to the hospital”

So, me and my sister are sitting here in his room with our mom awaiting for his passing.

I can witness that yes prayer works. I’m also realizing that his lifestyle and lack of concern for his health created this monstrous night.

I have all the normal “I don’t understand” thoughts, but for obvious reasons I’m not going to debate those right now.

 

[NCHillbilly]

God did not test job, but it was Satan. god did give the ones in flood over 90 years to repent and listen to Noah, and the Philistines were coming against gods people and they were also pagan worshiping peiple
Look up some of their practices.
God has not held back from punishing or destroying unrighteous people after giving a warning and sufficient time
Take a look at sodom Gomorrah or the activities before flood.
Exact Same thing going on now with the warning before armegedden which is Gods war against the govts false religion and the unrighteous

Why didn't God just create people righteous to begin with like he had the power to, then he could have saved himself all that trouble having to drown and burn them and such for acting like he designed them to.

 

[kmh1031]

Great question… and he did. He created Adam and Eve Perfect to live forever here on earth and gave them the beautiful garden of Eden and they were to become fruitful and become many and fill the earth. They were righteous and had prospect to live forever Never to die…. And no disease, crime, etc.

He also created them with free will, not robots. And gave them 1 law…. Do not eat from the tree.. if u do, u will die.

Satan, an angel in high position in heaven who had free will also (as all of gods creations) left his position due to jealousy and independence deceived Eve, but Adam knew full well what he was doing and disobeyed God.

thus the scripture at Romans 5:12 rings true because our “parents” sinned:

“That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned”

note John 8:44 what the scriptures say of Satan. Jesus speaking of the false religious leaders at the time:
You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began,band he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie.

this will all be solved shortly…

 

[Longbeard16]

Oh brother!! ^^^

 

[NCHillbilly]

Great question… and he did. He created Adam and Eve Perfect to live forever here on earth and gave them the beautiful garden of Eden and they were to become fruitful and become many and fill the earth. They were righteous and had prospect to live forever Never to die…. And no disease, crime, etc.

He also created them with free will, not robots. And gave them 1 law…. Do not eat from the tree.. if u do, u will die.

Satan, an angel in high position in heaven who had free will also (as all of gods creations) left his position due to jealousy and independence deceived Eve, but Adam knew full well what he was doing and disobeyed God.

thus the scripture at Romans 5:12 rings true because our “parents” sinned:

“That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned”

note John 8:44 what the scriptures say of Satan. Jesus speaking of the false religious leaders at the time:
You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began,band he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie.

this will all be solved shortly…

In other words, he set them up for failure, because he designed them to fail, then punished them for it. Sounds fair.

 

[kmh1031]

No not at all… he created them perfect, with everything they needed. Their choice to do right or wrong
if u raise ur child the best u can… teach them, guide them, educate them and love them… and they chose to become a serial killer, is it ur design?

 

[NCHillbilly]

No not at all… he created them perfect, with everything they needed. Their choice to do right or wrong
if u raise ur child the best u can… teach them, guide them, educate them and love them… and they chose to become a serial killer, is it ur design?

No, because I didn't design the species from scratch. He did, according to the Bible. And installed the tendency to do wrong circuit in them. And made what he called wrong to be a lot more fun than what he called right. Then punished them when it worked like he designed it to.

 

[Longbeard16]

and they chose to become a serial killer, is it ur design?

Uh absolutely!! He IS supposed to be a god right? And he also supposed to be omniscient. And also omnipotent. So somebody has got some explaining to do lol

 

[kmh1031]

As u know he created them with free will… perfect….U have it, ur kids have it, I have it to do what is right and according to gods standards, or choose a course opposite of that. Simple
Not defects not oreplanned…at all not the Stepford wives…. Ur right to choose

 

[NCHillbilly]

As u know he created them with free will… perfect….U have it, ur kids have it, I have it to do what is right and according to gods standards, or choose a course opposite of that. Simple
Not defects not oreplanned…at all not the Stepford wives…. Ur right to choose

If you say so, but you're wrong. You just won't admit it. If I was a perfect being according to God's plan, or if God's plan were perfect, I wouldn't think that drinking and fornicating is a whole lot more fun than sitting for two hours listening to a dry sermon about going to Hades for drinking and fornicating.

 

[Longbeard16]

As u know he created them with free will… perfect….U have it, ur kids have it, I have it to do what is right and according to gods standards, or choose a course opposite of that. Simple
Not defects not oreplanned…at all not the Stepford wives…. Ur right to choose

You didn't answer my question. Is he omniscient? Is he omnipotent?

 

[kmh1031]

First, God’s ability to foreknow and foreordain is clearly stated in the Bible.

God himself sets forth as proof of his Godship this ability to foreknow and foreordain events of salvation and deliverance, as well as acts of judgment and punishment, and then to bring such events to fulfillment.
These are clearly laid out on scripture and proof of this is for another post.

A second factor to be considered is the free moral agency of God’s intelligent creatures.
The Scriptures show that God extends to such creatures the privilege and responsibility of free choice, of exercising free moral agency thereby making them accountable for their acts.
They are thus not mere automatons or robots.
Man could not truly have been created in “God’s image” if he were not a free moral agent. Logically, there should be no conflict between God’s foreknowledge (as well as his foreordaining) and the free moral agency of his intelligent creatures

 

[bullethead]

No not at all… he created them perfect, with everything they needed. Their choice to do right or wrong
if u raise ur child the best u can… teach them, guide them, educate them and love them… and they chose to become a serial killer, is it ur design?

So you have 2 children. You place a pack of Oreos in the middle of the living room and tell them they can do whatever they want all day every day BUT DON'T EAT THE OREOS. If they eat the Oreos it will make them smarter but then you are not only going hold it against them for the rest of their lives, but you will see fit to punish all of their offspring for the deeds of the two.
Does that sound about right?
Your excuse is...."Hey man, I warned them. I gave them the option. I gave them Free Will. But I punished them for doing what I knew they were going to do."
Do you believe that God HAD to put the Tree of Knowledge smack dab where it was easily found? Do you beleive that a god had no other options?
Do you think even for a little bit that such stories sound like excuses for humans being humans and they dumb down a supposed All Knowing and All Powerful God into making poor decisions that cost humans everlasting life?
The bible stories portray the bumbling attempts of a god who deep down wants his humans to live forever but he just keeps putting in self destruct buttons to thwart his own projects. And then feels the need to punish all of humanity for the actions he not only knew would take place but put into motion himself.
Create Adam and Eve and the Garden. PERFECT!...but like Bob Ross he couldn't just walk away without the need to paint one last gawdy Tree of Knowledge smack dab front and center and ruin the portrait. Then punish Adam and Eve and every other human for seeing the tree when they look at the picture.
Solution: Punishment as in death for the humans being human.

Ok, round two:
Let his creation go about their business full well knowing what his creation is going to do eons before he even created it and then get torqued because they are not following him like he expects them to. Solution: Drown everyone, Drown Everything except 8 people and pairs of each animal. Ha! THAT will show them!
Solution: Punishment as in Death for humans being human.

But wait!!!
God's plan somehow doesn't work out like he expected yet again! How can that be? His cheery band of 8 repopulate the world(ok) and for some darn reason, I guess that free will thing again, They are straying away from God yet again. God is really thinking now. Sitting in his den, As he dunks his oreo in a cup of Knowledge Fruit Juice it hits him!!
He decides the ONLY way to straighten out his creation is to make a Mini Me version of himself. It IS himself, but it really is NOT himself. He and his worshippers cannot really decide if they want to worship one god, two gods, sometimes three gods so they construct a convoluted hierarchy involving three different entities who are all the same but totally different..(but lets get back to God's latest caper, err plan)
He Decides that the ONLY way to fix these humans once and for all is to Impregnate some Jewish woman with a version of himself. Have her raise himself for about 30 years in obscurity and then bust onto the scene for about three years on a campaign to gain followers. In a pinnacle of advanced decision making God decides that he is going to have his people KILL his son/himself as some sort of sacrifice to show his compassionate side (but really he reunites with himself for eternity so there is absolutely no sacrifice whatsoever) and therefore with his son dying for all of humanity and taking their burden of sin away with his death..TA-DA! God has figured out yet again how to "fix" his broken creation.
But wait...something is missing in that picture.
God breaks out the watercolors again and paints a big ol conditional tree right smack in the middle again.
You have to BELEIVE in Jesus or else he will administer more punishment in the form of eternal death and dangnation in a fiery pit of his choosing.

I don't know but it doesn't sound very god-like to me.

 

[bullethead]

First, God’s ability to foreknow and foreordain is clearly stated in the Bible.

God himself sets forth as proof of his Godship this ability to foreknow and foreordain events of salvation and deliverance, as well as acts of judgment and punishment, and then to bring such events to fulfillment.
These are clearly laid out on scripture and proof of this is for another post.

A second factor to be considered is the free moral agency of God’s intelligent creatures.
The Scriptures show that God extends to such creatures the privilege and responsibility of free choice, of exercising free moral agency thereby making them accountable for their acts.
They are thus not mere automatons or robots.
Man could not truly have been created in “God’s image” if he were not a free moral agent. Logically, there should be no conflict between God’s foreknowledge (as well as his foreordaining) and the free moral agency of his intelligent creatures

So then why punish the sons and daughters for being just like their father?