Methodist split - Florida update

[Madman]

The social gospel has taken over many places.

Let ‘em go.

 

[NE GA Pappy]

To secede is, in one way, to acknowledge the once legitimacy of the thing seceded from, but not a repentance of having ever ascribed to that thing its legitimacy.

Things always beget after kind.

It is less that it is wrong to say "Methodist church", "RC Church", Lutheran, COC, Presbyterian, Assembly(s) of God Church, Baptist, etc...etc...etc...

It is that such is not.

i have read this post 5 or 6 times, slowly and with purpose.


I still don't have a clue as to the thought you wanted to convey

 

[brutally honest]

i have read this post 5 or 6 times, slowly and with purpose.

Here’s to your patience, sir!

 

[Spotlite]

i have read this post 5 or 6 times, slowly and with purpose.


I still don't have a clue as to the thought you wanted to convey

To secede is, in one way, to acknowledge the once legitimacy of the thing seceded from.

I’m reading this portion to mean the same as Stacy Abrams when she refused to concede to Kemp. Her reasoning was it meant she was accepting what was considered legitimate if she were to concede.

The churches in this situation are faced with penalties with seceding from the organization; they’re saying it was the leaders that fouled up, not them. To secede with penalties in that situation would be an injustice.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

“The implosion of the 13-million-member global United Methodist Church has accelerated as 106 conservative Florida congregations are suing their liberal bishop, Kenneth Carter, for better terms as they quit the denomination. This schism of America’s largest liberal Mainline denomination represents the wider collapse of 20th century liberal Protestantism, whose leading institutions are fast receding if not dying.”

https://wng.org/opinions/methodism-implodes-amid-litigation-1662032394

If history, both ancient and recent, teaches us anything, it's that anything homosexuality and the homosexual agenda touches, it destroys. This isn't rocket science. It's as plain as day.

 

[brutally honest]

If history, both ancient and recent, teaches us anything, it's that anything homosexuality and the homosexual agenda touches, it destroys. This isn't rocket science. It's as plain as day.

I agree, but appointing women pastors seems to be the preliminary step in accepting homosexuality. All the Mainline denominations did that first.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

I agree, but appointing women pastors seems to be the preliminary step in accepting homosexuality. All the Mainline denominations did that first.

I may be mistaken but I don't think the Baptist did that (women pastors).

 

[SemperFiDawg]

That's because the men were women.

Ya ever notice in what Jesus says...He does not say?

That's a rhetorical question cause it's plain it's not considered much, if at all.

I literally have no idea what that meant. Even your short posts baffle me.

 

[brutally honest]

I may be mistaken but I don't think the Baptist did that (women pastors).

I don’t think the SBC has, but I’m not sure about the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship.

When I said “mainline”, I was referring to the so-called “seven sisters”:

American Baptist
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
Episcopal Church
Evangelical Lutheran Church of America
Presbyterian Church (USA)
United Church of Christ
United Methodist Church

 

[GeorgiaBob]

I agree, but appointing women pastors seems to be the preliminary step in accepting homosexuality. All the Mainline denominations did that first.

The commonly accepted history of the early church, a history even the Roman Catholic Church acknowledges (with a qualifier), includes a woman named Grapne' (there are different spellings of her name) who was Bishop of Rome (the actual title of the Pope is Bishop of Rome) shortly after Paul was murdered. She served for several years and apparently was instrumental in growing the young and hidden church. It was only after Constantine called the first Council of Nicaea (325 AD) that the Church looked to men as principle leaders of the church. It wasn't until the late middle ages that the RC Church officially reserved the sacrament (priestly duties) to men only.

Even that Papal order did not spell the end of women in the clergy. The Eastern Orthodox Church does not encourage the ordination of women, but their history includes women pastors in ever century of their existence. Even the modern Roman Catholic church has accepted WOMEN Priests among the Anglican clergy who transferred to Roman Catholic with their churches a little over 20 years ago.

I honestly do not accept that there is a direct, or even indirect, connection or relationship between women clergy and homosexuality.

I may be mistaken but I don't think the Baptist did that (women pastors).

In 1996 I visited Waco, Texas to attend the ordination of a young woman a Southern Baptist Pastor. The Southern Baptist Church does not prohibit the ordination of women. Admittedly, as a local church decision, such ordinations are very rare.

 

[Ruger#3]

Anglicans split from the Episcopals, there are no female Bishops and though female priests are not prohibited it is not the norm.

 

[brutally honest]

The commonly accepted history of the early church, a history even the Roman Catholic Church acknowledges (with a qualifier), includes a woman named Grapne' (there are different spellings of her name) who was Bishop of Rome (the actual title of the Pope is Bishop of Rome) shortly after Paul was murdered. She served for several years and apparently was instrumental in growing the young and hidden church. It was only after Constantine called the first Council of Nicaea (325 AD) that the Church looked to men as principle leaders of the church. It wasn't until the late middle ages that the RC Church officially reserved the sacrament (priestly duties) to men only.

I am extremely skeptical of all of this. I'm pretty well-read on church history and have never heard any of this. A quick Google search turned up nothing. If you can provide links, I'll take another look.

Women Priests: No Chance | Catholic Answers

 

[brutally honest]

Even that Papal order did not spell the end of women in the clergy. The Eastern Orthodox Church does not encourage the ordination of women, but their history includes women pastors in ever century of their existence.

Just not true. I'm not an expert on Orthodoxy, but I know they do not ordain women. St. John Chrysostom, who is revered in the West as well as the East, said, "The office of bishop excludes all women and most men."

There were women who served as deaconesses but never as priests or bishops.

Ordination of Women - Questions & Answers - Orthodox Church in America (oca.org)

 

[brutally honest]

Even the modern Roman Catholic church has accepted WOMEN Priests among the Anglican clergy who transferred to Roman Catholic with their churches a little over 20 years ago.

Not a Catholic, but I don't think that's correct, either. The RC has accepted married Anglican priests who have converted, though.

 

[brutally honest]

I honestly do not accept that there is a direct, or even indirect, connection or relationship between women clergy and homosexuality.

The relationship is that both are liberal "innovations". (In the case of homosexuality, it is an abomination.) All of the liberal denominations listed in post 32 became more liberal with the addition of female pastors. Ann Coulter makes a similar point in one of her books about politics: giving women the vote moved the country to the left.

 

[brutally honest]

The commonly accepted history of the early church, a history even the Roman Catholic Church acknowledges (with a qualifier), includes a woman named Grapne' (there are different spellings of her name) who was Bishop of Rome (the actual title of the Pope is Bishop of Rome) shortly after Paul was murdered. She served for several years and apparently was instrumental in growing the young and hidden church.

Even Ehrman doesn't believe that.

Who Was the First Bishop of Rome? Let's Resolve the Confusion (ehrmanblog.org)

 

[GeorgiaBob]

Not a Catholic, but I don't think that's correct, either. The RC has accepted married Anglican priests who have converted, though.

https://www.romancatholicwomenpriests.org/history/

 

[brutally honest]

https://www.romancatholicwomenpriests.org/history/

That's not an official Catholic site. Are there Catholics who support ordaining women? Sure. Are there rogue "bishops" who will actually do it? Evidently.

The Catholic Catechism is crystal clear: no women priests.

 

[GeorgiaBob]

I am extremely skeptical of all of this. I'm pretty well-read on church history and have never heard any of this. A quick Google search turned up nothing. If you can provide links, I'll take another look.

Women Priests: No Chance | Catholic Answers

https://www.city-data.com/forum/christianity/2954188-first-bishop-rome-woman.html

https://www.ncronline.org/news/theology/researcher-artifacts-show-early-church-women-served-clergy

I don't like using Wiki due to it's low standards of accuracy, and constant editing/replacement of fact, but this is an easier read on Joan a middle ages pope.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Joan

https://www.womendeacons.org/cerula-and-bitalia/

 

[brutally honest]

https://www.romancatholicwomenpriests.org/history/

They were excommunicated, and so were the "bishops" who ordained them.

From the "FAQ" section of your link:


Have You Been Excommunicated?
Response Regarding Excommunication Decree
Roman Catholic Womenpriests reject the penalty of excommunication issued by the Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith on May 29, 2008 stating that the “women priests and the bishops who ordain them would be excommunicated latae sententiae.” Roman Catholic Womenpriests are loyal members of the church who stand in the prophetic tradition of holy obedience to the Spirit’s call to change an unjust law that discriminates against women. Our movement is receiving enthusiastic responses on the local, national and international level. We will continue to serve our beloved church in a renewed priestly ministry that welcomes all to celebrate the sacraments in inclusive, Christ-centered, Spirit-empowered communities wherever we are called.