Church attendance required by Scripture?

[Madman]

The question is why those meetings with the family of God for worship really need to be in formal church meetings rather than other venues. The "church" is the entire family of God, regardless of whether the meeting is in a formal or informal venue.

I have no other place to receive the sacraments than in church. Why would one not desire to attend in the "regular" meeting place of their church?

 

[LittleDrummerBoy]

I have no other place to receive the sacraments than in church. Why would one not desire to attend in the "regular" meeting place of their church?

I've come across various issues over the past three decades. Sometimes, it's not a matter of desire, but rather practicality. How many hours should one walk to get to a formal church gathering, when their is an informal gathering a few minutes away? What does one do when one is "between" churches? What about those who find adequate regular fellowship in groups that offer worship, sacraments, and teaching outside of formal churches - for example Messianic congregations that often have informal structures? Jumping in this late in the thread, most of these questions have be addressed in more detail in previous posts.

 

[Madman]

LDB,

It is evident you and I come from different traditions. The Messianic Jewish tradition, while arguably christian, are another topic.

Without the church, to whom do I appeal? Who is the arbiter? Matt. 18:15-18 The Church is the body to whom I may appeal.

The leaders of the first "Church" were given authority and responsibility. John 21:15-17 Would we deny them their job?

Without a priest, there can be no Mass (meal), without the meal, the christian has no sustenance. John 6:53-59

Both of my sons went away to college and found traditions like they grew up in, even though one of them had to travel almost an hour.

Perhaps you don't need to attend, but I do.

God's peace.

 

[NE GA Pappy]

How many hours should one walk to get to a formal church gathering,

Probably as many as they walk on Saturday night to their favorite dining place to eat a steak.

get real man... ain't nobody walking miles for anything in the US, unless they are training for the Peachtree 10k

 

[Madman]

The question is why those meetings with the family of God for worship really need to be in formal church meetings rather than other venues. The "church" is the entire family of God, regardless of whether the meeting is in a formal or informal venue.

The church is more than just the people, it is everything that Christ put in place. There is a form and a hierarchy too. That is not available in the home church.

 

[j_seph]

 

[LittleDrummerBoy]

Why should the average Christian find their way back to church if so many churches offer so little in terms of feeding and shepherding the sheep?

Churches should figure out what we need to do differently to meet the real needs of the sheep. Being in church is often not only a waste of time, it is a negative experience, because Scriptural teaching is replaced by the traditions of man, and dead religion replaces real relationship with God the Father through Jesus Christ.

Churches have the greater burden to offer worthwhile Biblical teaching, preaching, and worship than the sheep have to keep showing up when Churches are failing in their job.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

.....get real man...

Ain’t happening Pappy. Just ain’t.

 

[j_seph]

Why should the average Christian find their way back to church if so many churches offer so little in terms of feeding and shepherding the sheep?

Then you find a church that feeds its flock.

Churches should figure out what we need to do differently to meet the real needs of the sheep. Being in church is often not only a waste of time, it is a negative experience, because Scriptural teaching is replaced by the traditions of man, and dead religion replaces real relationship with God the Father through Jesus Christ

Only thing the church needs to figure out is to follow and obey God. If your in a church that feels like a waste of time, a negative experience, that has traditions of man then maybe it is time to leave and find a church where God is invited to the services. Our little church, I can only tell you what time service starts. There are no clocks on the wall. Last night for example, we started at 7 as usual, we did not get done until 9:45. How many average Christians would have already gotten up and left by 8:30?

Churches have the greater burden to offer worthwhile Biblical teaching, preaching, and worship than the sheep have to keep showing up when Churches are failing in their job.

See first reply. First burden of a church should be leading the lost to Christ. Then IMO it is making sure each of its members are in Gods Will. That is going to come by Gods word, not mans word. If man is putting his word in it then it is not of God and will not find that lodging place in your heart. Read 1 John 4:15 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Can you stand up in your church and give your testimony still? If so how often does that happen? We had a service a few weeks ago, the spirit was moving during the singing and it broke loose throughout the congregation. Pastor never got to preach as the preaching that morning came from testimonies from 35 to 40 people.

Heard about a Baptist church the other day that found out their Pastor was getting his sermons from an online provider. That is not of God IMO. That is man reading and picking and choosing cause he does not know who or what is needed at the next service. Only God knows that.

 

[LittleDrummerBoy]

Then you find a church that feeds its flock.

That's easy to say, and it is not an unreasonable expectation for a mature believer with easy access to reliable transportation. But such admonishments fail to address immature believers and folks with transportation challenges.

Consider immature believers. How do they recognize a church that is feeding its flock from churches operated based more on tradition and ulterior motives? And even churches that are feeding their flocks to some degree are bound up in legalistic traditions like requiring abstinence from alcohol for church membership.

I read a great article recently on "Why Christian Parents are Losing Trust in the Church." If you think your church is great for you, fine. But how does it stack up regarding the concerns of this article:

Quoted from here:
Churches often lament the lack of church attendance from teens and college students, often pointing the finger at parents for failing to properly train their children to show up and dutifully warm the seats.

Some things are seldom discussed:

1. In the last few years, some churches are becoming more like an arm of the government: supporting public schools and opposing home schooling, supporting government overreaches like mandatory vaccinations, backing away from persecuted members, failing to be a prophetic voice exposing sin in government officials, etc. Is Jesus really saying that the United States is the greatest nation on earth?

Is the point of Romans 13 really that government need not be limited by their own laws (like the Constitution) or that a government “of the people, by the people, for the people” should not be accountable to those same people? If good Christians live up to their contracts and covenants, why don’t good governments have to live up to the 1st and 2nd amendments? Churches that imply that Romans 13 means Christians should tolerate government violations of the Constitution are implicitly teaching our daughters that Ephesians 5:22 means that wives should tolerate their husbands’ marital infidelity.

2. Rather than supporting parental authority, some churches undermine parental authority by taking neutral positions on whether teens really need to obey their parents. Even if the official position remains consistent with Scripture, the practical application often gives teens permission to disobey, and leaders often enable and hide destructive and disobedient behaviors of teens. Should teens really find sympathy in church leaders regarding whether parental boundaries are reasonable or whether consequences for misbehavior are appropriate?

3. Churches have swung toward supporting politically correct positions rather than simply correct Biblical positions: Global warming and low wages are not worse than adultery and stealing. Sex trafficking is not worse than abortion. Body shaming is not worse than drug abuse. The Ten Commandments was given to all mankind as a summary of God’s eternal moral law for mankind. Avoiding them in favor of more modern interpretations about right and wrong undermines parental efforts toward more Biblical discipleship.

Parents concerned with the sanctity of marriage are turned off by church tributes to the serial adulterer fraud of a Christian preacher (MLK). Thou shall not celebrate adulterers if you want to be trusted with children of parents who appreciate the Ten Commandments. He may have been a great man, but churches are undermining the voice of parents regarding sexual purity, the importance of waiting until marriage, and the absolute unacceptability of adultery. If MLK can be praised and celebrated and hailed as a Christian hero in spite of his unrepentant adultery, then how can we expect teens not to rationalize that giving into similar temptations is not so bad? If a preacher (MLK) can break his sacred marriage vows and be a great man, can the preachers at your church break theirs also?

4. Many churches are compromised on the belief in a Biblical six day creation, absence of death before the fall, and formation of Adam from clay and Eve from Adam, “from the beginning of creation.” Compromised creation doctrines open the door to acceptance of adulterous remarriages, broad acceptance of fornication, and tolerance of Sodomite marriage. Some churches further call into question whether **** is real and whether it is eternal. Should any parent be eager for their church to undermine such essential elements of Biblical revelation and the preaching of the gospel?

Parents should obey the Scripture, “Do not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing.” But rather than wholeheartedly trust the church as a source of sound teaching, good example, and Christian practice, many parents regretfully have to teach their children that “Jesus would not entrust himself to any man, because he knew what was in a man.”

Absence from church activities may often be a failure of parents, but it is more often a failure of the church to win the trust of parents.

 

[j_seph]

1. In the last few years, some churches are becoming more like an arm of the government: supporting public schools and opposing home schooling, supporting government overreaches like mandatory vaccinations, backing away from persecuted members, failing to be a prophetic voice exposing sin in government officials, etc. Is Jesus really saying that the United States is the greatest nation on earth?

Not sure what they mean by the schools and gov't. We have public school and home schooled kids at our church. Government gets mentioned when they are doing wrong and when they are doing right and get prayed for accordingly.

2. Rather than supporting parental authority, some churches undermine parental authority by taking neutral positions on whether teens really need to obey their parents. Even if the official position remains consistent with Scripture, the practical application often gives teens permission to disobey, and leaders often enable and hide destructive and disobedient behaviors of teens. Should teens really find sympathy in church leaders regarding whether parental boundaries are reasonable or whether consequences for misbehavior are appropriate?

The scripture about spare not the rod has been preached on several times. We have even been told that we see a child, teen, or even an adult not being reverent in the house of God it is our duty to bring it to their attention and correct them. We have had teens get on their phones and be called out to put their phones down during service.

3. Churches have swung toward supporting politically correct positions rather than simply correct Biblical positions: Global warming and low wages are not worse than adultery and stealing. Sex trafficking is not worse than abortion. Body shaming is not worse than drug abuse. The Ten Commandments was given to all mankind as a summary of God’s eternal moral law for mankind. Avoiding them in favor of more modern interpretations about right and wrong undermines parental efforts toward more Biblical discipleship.

We are far from politically correct and am sure that a millennial church goer would probably get offended by some things preached at our church because it comes from Gods word and is truth which has been cut out of some churches.

Absence from church activities may often be a failure of parents, but it is more often a failure of the church to win the trust of parents.

Most kids today do not have a drug problem being drug to church. Many parents find that their kids ball practice and games are more important than their kid learning Gods word and the own kids salvation. I have a stepson who is 18, raised in church until his dad divorced my wife and led him astray. In turn his dad had quit church and led his son down the same path he was on. My wife has been kept awake at night praying for his salvation, while another parent is worried about their kids ball game. We as the adults have failed today's youth as we have gotten slack. We have tried appeasing everyone's wants and desires for a church and lost sight of the one we need to be appeasing and that is Jesus Christ. We are not a perfect church and not saying that at all. However we also do our best not to conform to the world. HE11 is hot, it is as eternal as Heaven is. There is only one way to reach the later and that requires the blood of Christ. Man cannot give it to you, he can only guide you that way through the holy spirits teaching. All of the light shows, bands and instruments, activities in a church will not get anyone saved without the holy spirit being in it and it being of God not man.

 

[Madman]

That's easy to say, and it is not an unreasonable expectation for a mature believer with easy access to reliable transportation. But such admonishments fail to address immature believers and folks with transportation challenges.

We have members who live near some colleges who stop by and pick-up the students on the way to church.

Consider immature believers. How do they recognize a church that is feeding its flock from churches operated based more on tradition and ulterior motives?

What ulterior motive? our only motive is their eternity.

And even churches that are feeding their flocks to some degree are bound up in legalistic traditions like requiring abstinence from alcohol for church membership.

Not ours. Holy Communion uses wine ate least 6 times a week.
Baptism is entry / membership in the church.

1. In the last few years, some churches are becoming more like an arm of the government: supporting public schools and opposing home schooling, supporting government overreaches like mandatory vaccinations, backing away from persecuted members, failing to be a prophetic voice exposing sin in government officials, etc. Is Jesus really saying that the United States is the greatest nation on earth?

Is the point of Romans 13 really that government need not be limited by their own laws (like the Constitution) or that a government “of the people, by the people, for the people” should not be accountable to those same people? If good Christians live up to their contracts and covenants, why don’t good governments have to live up to the 1st and 2nd amendments? Churches that imply that Romans 13 means Christians should tolerate government violations of the Constitution are implicitly teaching our daughters that Ephesians 5:22 means that wives should tolerate their husbands’ marital infidelity.

The Bible and the church clearly teach how the Christian should behave toward government.

2. Rather than supporting parental authority, some churches undermine parental authority by taking neutral positions on whether teens really need to obey their parents. Even if the official position remains consistent with Scripture, the practical application often gives teens permission to disobey, and leaders often enable and hide destructive and disobedient behaviors of teens. Should teens really find sympathy in church leaders regarding whether parental boundaries are reasonable or whether consequences for misbehavior are appropriate?

They need a new church seem to remember a verse "children obey your parents."

3. Churches have swung toward supporting politically correct positions rather than simply correct Biblical positions: Global warming and low wages are not worse than adultery and stealing. Sex trafficking is not worse than abortion. Body shaming is not worse than drug abuse. The Ten Commandments was given to all mankind as a summary of God’s eternal moral law for mankind. Avoiding them in favor of more modern interpretations about right and wrong undermines parental efforts toward more Biblical discipleship.

Need a new church

Parents concerned with the sanctity of marriage are turned off by church tributes to the serial adulterer fraud of a Christian preacher (MLK). Thou shall not celebrate adulterers if you want to be trusted with children of parents who appreciate the Ten Commandments. He may have been a great man, but churches are undermining the voice of parents regarding sexual purity, the importance of waiting until marriage, and the absolute unacceptability of adultery. If MLK can be praised and celebrated and hailed as a Christian hero in spite of his unrepentant adultery, then how can we expect teens not to rationalize that giving into similar temptations is not so bad? If a preacher (MLK) can break his sacred marriage vows and be a great man, can the preachers at your church break theirs also?

Not us. Two sons, one who remained sexually pure until marriage, the second is still pure and probably soon to be engaged.

4. Many churches are compromised on the belief in a Biblical six day creation, absence of death before the fall, and formation of Adam from clay and Eve from Adam, “from the beginning of creation.” Compromised creation doctrines open the door to acceptance of adulterous remarriages, broad acceptance of fornication, and tolerance of Sodomite marriage. Some churches further call into question whether **** is real and whether it is eternal. Should any parent be eager for their church to undermine such essential elements of Biblical revelation and the preaching of the gospel?

No. WE don't

Parents should obey the Scripture, “Do not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing.” But rather than wholeheartedly trust the church as a source of sound teaching, good example, and Christian practice, many parents regretfully have to teach their children that “Jesus would not entrust himself to any man, because he knew what was in a man.”

I do trust the church. We believe what Christendom has believed for 2000+ years and the VAST majority of Christendom believes today.

Absence from church activities may often be a failure of parents, but it is more often a failure of the church to win the trust of parents.

Parents need a new view of what church should be.


WOW. Sounds like "church" has failed a bunch of folks. I do know this; I will not leave Jesus because of Judas.

 

[Madman]

Why should the average Christian find their way back to church if so many churches offer so little in terms of feeding and shepherding the sheep?

What does the Christian need to be "fed"?

Churches should figure out what we need to do differently to meet the real needs of the sheep. Being in church is often not only a waste of time, it is a negative experience, because Scriptural teaching is replaced by the traditions of man, and dead religion replaces real relationship with God the Father through Jesus Christ.

Flesh this out for me please. What needs? Corporate worship of God is a waste of time, negative? How can any worship in spirit and truth be a waste of time? What traditions of men are you talking about? Explain "dead religion".
What do you mean by "real relationship with God the Father through Jesus Christ"?

Churches have the greater burden to offer worthwhile Biblical teaching, preaching, and worship than the sheep have to keep showing up when Churches are failing in their job.

How do you know if Biblical teaching at your church is worthwhile? Is it because you agree with it? I have to trust the church because I do not read and understand the original languages, and fully understand the culture into which it was written. The church has 2000+ year old documents that it has kept on these topics, the church has struggled with many societal problems and heresies over the centuries, some are settled and some are being settled.

Sounds like you need a good church, the true church.

If I can help let me know.

God's peace my friend.
Christ said; "come unto me all ye that travail and are heavy laden and I will give you rest".

 

[LittleDrummerBoy]

Need a new church

I'm not personally looking for a new church, since the one I'm serving in now is pretty good and working hard to improve.

But I do meet lots of people in Georgia who are looking for new churches who ask me for recommendations. By your testimony, it sounds like yours is pretty good. Can you provide links to a statement of faith, membership requirements, and possibly some sermon videos to allow a more complete assessment so that I can possibly recommend it to brothers and sisters in Christ looking for a new church?

 

[Madman]

We believe what the Church has believed for over 2000 years.

https://www.stbarnabasatl.org/home

Send them on they will be welcomed with the love of Christ.

P.S. we drive an hour several times a week. It is well worth it.
There is a lot of reading at the site. Let me know what you think.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Then you find a church that feeds its flock.


Only thing the church needs to figure out is to follow and obey God. If your in a church that feels like a waste of time, a negative experience, that has traditions of man then maybe it is time to leave and find a church where God is invited to the services. Our little church, I can only tell you what time service starts. There are no clocks on the wall. Last night for example, we started at 7 as usual, we did not get done until 9:45. How many average Christians would have already gotten up and left by 8:30?


See first reply. First burden of a church should be leading the lost to Christ. Then IMO it is making sure each of its members are in Gods Will. That is going to come by Gods word, not mans word. If man is putting his word in it then it is not of God and will not find that lodging place in your heart. Read 1 John 4:15 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Can you stand up in your church and give your testimony still? If so how often does that happen? We had a service a few weeks ago, the spirit was moving during the singing and it broke loose throughout the congregation. Pastor never got to preach as the preaching that morning came from testimonies from 35 to 40 people.

Heard about a Baptist church the other day that found out their Pastor was getting his sermons from an online provider. That is not of God IMO. That is man reading and picking and choosing cause he does not know who or what is needed at the next service. Only God knows that.

J. I attend a Baptist Church and I've seen the Spirit move so much before the service the Pastor couldn't start just from being overwhelmed by the Spirit. It's powerful and there's no mistaking it. PM sent btw.

 

[j_seph]

https://www.sermonaudio.com/saplayer/playpopup.asp?SID=626182250517

 

[j_seph]

Two local Pastors up this way. Hope y'all enjoy. Reminder all of these sermons are not wrote down by man. They are not planned out nor rehearsed prior to.



Russell Burt
https://www.sermonaudio.com/search....SpeakerOnly=true&AudioOnly=false&sortby=added

Chris Gilbert
https://www.sermonaudio.com/search....rsection=sermonsspeaker&keyword=Chris_Gilbert

 

[LittleDrummerBoy]

First burden of a church should be leading the lost to Christ.

OK, let's go with that. Suppose your church leads a man to Christ. He repents, turns to God, confesses and professes, and is baptized by your church. Now, can he join your church even if he earns his living as the proprietor of a liquor store, as an employee of a beer distribution company, or as a bartender? Or does your church membership requirements exclude those who participate in the sale of "intoxicating beverages"?

Can you stand up in your church and give your testimony still? If so how often does that happen?

Every time I've felt prompted by the Holy Spirit to give a testimony, I've been allowed to. It's fairly common in our church. What about your church? Would it allow a testimony to miraculous healing? Fulfilled personal prophecy? Receiving the gift of tongues? A miraculous provision of wine for a wedding? Or would testimonies of this nature bring "correction"?

 

[j_seph]

OK, let's go with that. Suppose your church leads a man to Christ. He repents, turns to God, confesses and professes, and is baptized by your church. Now, can he join your church even if he earns his living as the proprietor of a liquor store, as an employee of a beer distribution company, or as a bartender? Or does your church membership requirements exclude those who participate in the sale of "intoxicating beverages"?



Every time I've felt prompted by the Holy Spirit to give a testimony, I've been allowed to. It's fairly common in our church. What about your church? Would it allow a testimony to miraculous healing? Fulfilled personal prophecy? Receiving the gift of tongues? A miraculous provision of wine for a wedding? Or would testimonies of this nature bring "correction"?

I can not honestly answer that question. That does go against the church covenant. However I do see if someone wants to join a church, not just ours but anyones church then their belief is going to be in like minded and in agreement with the church they want to join. I would not go and join a JW church, because that is not what I believe in. That is like some religions condim those with tattoos. Our Pastor was telling us of a preacher that visited once that had tattoos. After service another preacher told him he did good but it didn't matter how good he preached, he would not get into Heaven with all those tattoos. Our Pastor stopped him right there and set him straight. Some churches say that a man who has been divorced cannot preach. If God called you to preach, he called you to preach.


Read my post, we had a service just a short time back and the entire service turned into testimonies from almost everyone in the church. My wife prayed to touch the hem of his garment just as in the bible. She had stage 3 Diastolic Heart Failure. She left it at the alter, her doctor has asked 3 times now what is she doing different because this does not just go away. There is no medical explanation for it he says. I have heard someone cut lose one Sunday morning in service that was praying, talking to the Lord and I cannot tell you what she said. At that time our Pastor was preaching hard, another preacher cut loose preaching just as hard.