Converting the dying

[Spotlite]

I grew up in "spirit filled" churches. There is group psychology involved and there is also some choreography involved. Why do you think the preacher calls the pianist up to start playing a slow emotional tune just as he is finishing up his sermon and about to make an alter call? Ever notice that? It serves a purpose. People also have a natural urge to cry when they see others crying. Your head is being screwed with but at the same time you're a willing participant. We see the same thing on other religions and even in political movements that take advantage of the same dynamics. It seems real at the time especially if you already have the predisposition and desire for it to be real.

Preying on others emotions is definitely real, but it’s not of God. I’ve never seen a crying sad service considered a “movement of God”........I have witnessed my Pastor stop a visiting preacher before and remind him that we are not at a funeral.

 

[bullethead]

I always thought a drive by was one in which one fires and flees...quickly.

Well, since it is 25+hours later until your next cruise through the neighborhood, yeah you have the definition and the act spot on.

Spray and pray has never been more fitting.

 

[j_seph]

You make the incorrect assumption that we have never experienced what you are talking about. I grew up in "spirit filled" churches. That feeling is in your head. There is group psychology involved and there is also some choreography involved. Why do you think the preacher calls the pianist up to start playing a slow emotional tune just as he is finishing up his sermon and about to make an alter call? Ever notice that? It serves a purpose. People also have a natural urge to cry when they see others crying. Your head is being screwed with but at the same time you're a willing participant. We see the same thing on other religions and even in political movements that take advantage of the same dynamics. It seems real at the time especially if you already have the predisposition and desire for it to be real.

Richie says he has witnessed healing in response to prayer. How many amputees has he seen miraculously healed by prayer? That would be a big goose egg. Not a single documented case of that ever happening. Yet in the Bible he healed the severed ear of a soldier and he said those believers who came after him would be able to perform the same and even greater works than him. So let's put that to the test. Bring forth your best faith healer and let's see how well they perform under a controlled study. Let's see how many amputees they can heal and how many corpses they can bring back to life.

So do y'all have a AA bible that you all use?

Question: "Why won't God heal amputees?"

Answer: Some use this question in an attempt to "disprove" the existence of God. In fact, there is a popular anti-Christian website dedicated to the “Why won’t God heal amputees?” argument: http://www.whywontgodhealamputees.com. If God is all-powerful and if Jesus promised to do anything we ask (or so the reasoning goes), then why won’t God ever heal amputees when we pray for them? Why does God heal victims of cancer and diabetes, for example, yet He never causes an amputated limb to be regenerated? The fact that an amputee stays an amputee is "proof" to some that God does not exist, that prayer is useless, that so-called healings are coincidence, and that religion is a myth.

https://www.gotquestions.org/God-heal-amputees.html

 

[bullethead]

So do y'all have a AA bible that you all use?


https://www.gotquestions.org/God-heal-amputees.html

Thank you for helping provide more information to the point, unless you have an answer as to why god doesn't heal amputees....?

 

[atlashunter]

Preying on others emotions is definitely real, but it’s not of God. I’ve never seen a crying sad service considered a “movement of God”........I have witnessed my Pastor stop a visiting preacher before and remind him that we are not at a funeral.

Then you haven't spent much time in churches like the one Richie was talking about. Crying is the norm in those churches. Not necessarily out of sadness. People may or may not know they are part of the game. A lot of them just like being stroked. You can say it's not of God. They say it is. You don't know what they FELT! Which is exactly the point isn't it? Feelings are no indicator of what is true. They often lead people to believe things that aren't true.

 

[atlashunter]

So do y'all have a AA bible that you all use?


https://www.gotquestions.org/God-heal-amputees.html

No bible. Just reasonable questions that no Christian can answer. We should expect prayer to be of no use to amputees in a godless universe. It's no surprise to us. It is believers who have a conflict between the claims of the Bible and reality to resolve.

 

[atlashunter]

What could you offer a believer that can take the place of the kind of comfort that they get from their belief in Santa Claus, the fairy godmother, or any other comforting fantasy?

We are talking about adults here right?

 

[Spotlite]

Then you haven't spent much time in churches like the one Richie was talking about. Crying is the norm in those churches. Not necessarily out of sadness. People may or may not know they are part of the game. A lot of them just like being stroked. You can say it's not of God. They say it is. You don't know what they FELT! Which is exactly the point isn't it? Feelings are no indicator of what is true. They often lead people to believe things that aren't true.

You’re right, and I don’t know what they felt. Feelings are definitely misleading. People are emotional when others around them are. Some times people give the the credit for that emotion to where it doesn’t belong.

I’ve been in some crying services visiting other churches and felt the emotion from just being there, human nature.

From my experience, a single person or maybe several will get convicted, “pricked at the heart” or whatever you want to call it and make their way to the alter. I don’t see that “sadness” bleed off and affect everyone and many others in the congregation and end up a crying service with sad songs being played. I have seen others joyous.

I can’t answer for what others have seen though.

 

[Israel]

Well, since it is 25+hours later until your next cruise through the neighborhood, yeah you have the definition and the act spot on.

Spray and pray has never been more fitting.

LOL. OK, gotcha, "it's not required, but we do like to see more frequent interaction, Hmmmm"

(insert pic of man steepling his fingers behind desk)

 

[atlashunter]

You’re right, and I don’t know what they felt. Feelings are definitely misleading. People are emotional when others around them are. Some times people give the the credit for that emotion to where it doesn’t belong.

I’ve been in some crying services visiting other churches and felt the emotion from just being there, human nature.

From my experience, a single person or maybe several will get convicted, “pricked at the heart” or whatever you want to call it and make their way to the alter. I don’t see that “sadness” bleed off and affect everyone and many others in the congregation and end up a crying service with sad songs being played. I have seen others joyous.

I can’t answer for what others have seen though.

Speaking of joy have you seen that Kenneth Hagin video I posted a while back? He just walks around through the crowd and people laugh uncontrollably? Ever seen the look of people who are following a cult leader with absolute conviction? I think there is much about group psychology that we still don't understand but can see when it is tapped into.

 

[Spotlite]

Speaking of joy have you seen that Kenneth Hagin video I posted a while back? He just walks around through the crowd and people laugh uncontrollably? Ever seen the look of people who are following a cult leader with absolute conviction? I think there is much about group psychology that we still don't understand but can see when it is tapped into.

Haven’t seen but am aware. Sadly, people are taken advantage of in every aspect of life, not just religion. But people who know the difference, know the difference.

 

[bullethead]

LOL. OK, gotcha, "it's not required, but we do like to see more frequent interaction, Hmmmm"

(insert pic of man steepling his fingers behind desk)

Actually that is not what was said or I implied at all.

You quoted me and then proceeded to go on a question and answer conversation with yourself which had nothing to do with anything that you quoted from me.
All it was, was an opportunity to preach another sermon that you've told at some point in just about every thread already.
The only conversations that involve in depth thoughtful answers from you are between you and yourself because you ask the questions that nobody else is asking you in order to get whatever thoughts you've been working on out there.

You have every right to post but why try to mask your intentions by quoting someone and never even remotely coming close to addressing their quote with your reply?
Why not just do a 5oclock Charlie bombing run and get it over with? We will all set a time aside, break out the lawn chairs and watch the routine, and then go back to business doing what were doing after the show.

 

[atlashunter]

Haven’t seen but am aware. Sadly, people are taken advantage of in every aspect of life, not just religion. But people who know the difference, know the difference.

The people in this video pray to the same god you and Richie pray to. They read the same bible you and Richie read. But they are being fooled and you aren't?

Apparently the number of christians who don't know the difference is massive. I'm not just cherry picking some oddball back woods preacher with a tiny congregation that nobody ever heard of here. Kenneth Hagin was a very prominent man in the evangelical churches. That man on the front row at the 1:30 mark in case you didn't know is Kenneth Copeland. He has a huge church and a ministry that employs about 500 people. His net worth is estimated at $300 million.

I'm curious what you think is going on in that video with all of those people laughing and dancing. Are they faking? Are they genuine? Are they under some kind of influence of the preacher?

You may not act in the same way. I'm sure you probably don't. But the point is many people are susceptible to this kind of manipulation often times in more subtly expressed ways.

 

[red neck richie]

Then you haven't spent much time in churches like the one Richie was talking about. Crying is the norm in those churches. Not necessarily out of sadness. People may or may not know they are part of the game. A lot of them just like being stroked. You can say it's not of God. They say it is. You don't know what they FELT! Which is exactly the point isn't it? Feelings are no indicator of what is true. They often lead people to believe things that aren't true.

That's funny I never named a church or said all my experiences even happed in a church. Again speculation on your part. You do know that people don't always have to be in church to pray and worship.

 

[Spotlite]

The people in this video pray to the same god you and Richie pray to. They read the same bible you and Richie read. But they are being fooled and you aren't?
.

Im certain that tons of folks pray to the same God that Richie and I pray to. I can’t speak for Richie, but i would be one of those that got up and went to Burger King if I was in that service. You are aware of Matthew 7 starting somewhere around verse 20??

Regardless if you’re a believer or not, anyone that can read should obviously see that there are those that you speak of and it is acknowledged and pointed out that just because they claim it........doesn’t make it fact.

Why should anyone find it surprising that these type folks actually live up to what the Bible warns against?

What’s interesting is that people claim to know the Bible better than the Christian and can’t even sort out stuff like this example. They're lumping every one that reads the Bible as Christian. That word is used to loosely, Christian is more than reading the Bible and going to church. A Christian understands that.

 

[atlashunter]

That's funny I never named a church or said all my experiences even happed in a church. Again speculation on your part.

You said people were speaking in tongues. Tells me all I need to know. Tell me people don't cry in your church at the alter.

 

[Spotlite]

Apparently the number of christians who don't know the difference is massive. I'm not just cherry picking some oddball back woods preacher with a tiny congregation that nobody ever heard of here. Kenneth Hagin was a very prominent man in the evangelical churches. That man on the front row at the 1:30 mark in case you didn't know is Kenneth Copeland. He has a huge church and a ministry that employs about 500 people. His net worth is estimated at $300 million.

I'm curious what you think is going on in that video with all of those people laughing and dancing. Are they faking? Are they genuine? Are they under some kind of influence of the preacher?

You may not act in the same way. I'm sure you probably don't. But the point is many people are susceptible to this kind of manipulation often times in more subtly expressed ways.

Now for the other part of your post, this was sort of two part question.

It doesn’t matter who these “minister” are or how much wealth they have.....I’m not sure what they’re doing in this video, it’s nothing that I have seen anywhere other than a “show”

Without being there, it looks to me nothing more than mockery for one, and to grab attention of the weak that are willing to donate thinking that they’ve found something powerful that will help them.

Either way, it’s a shame that people act this way thinking that they’re being “Christian” and it’s misguided to think that they are.

I’ve been in church since I was 2 years old, that was 44 years ago. I’ve never seen anything such as this in person and if you gave me a ticket to go, id burn it.

 

[atlashunter]

Im certain that tons of folks pray to the same God that Richie and I pray to. I can’t speak for Richie, but i would be one of those that got up and went to Burger King if I was in that service. You are aware of Matthew 7 starting somewhere around verse 20??

Regardless if you’re a believer or not, anyone that can read should obviously see that there are those that you speak of and it is acknowledged and pointed out that just because they claim it........doesn’t make it fact.

Why should anyone find it surprising that these type folks actually live up to what the Bible warns against?

What’s interesting is that people claim to know the Bible better than the Christian and can’t even sort out stuff like this example. They're lumping every one that reads the Bible as Christian. That word is used to loosely, Christian is more than reading the Bible and going to church. A Christian understands that.

Again we aren't talking about some tiny minority of Christians. This is just a more pronounced manifestation of the manipulation that takes place. You may not be one of those jumping up and dancing but don't kid yourself thinking you can't be manipulated.

Yes just because something is claimed that doesn't make it fact. There are many claims made by the Bible that don't comport with the facts. Yet you still believe it. Why? It must serve some purpose either for you or for someone else. Maybe the more pertinent question is are those people being honest with themselves? Are you and Richie being honest with yourselves?

 

[red neck richie]

You said people were speaking in tongues. Tells me all I need to know. Tell me people don't cry in your church at the alter.

Yes and it happened at my Grandmothers house not a church. Sure people cry at the alter. What does that prove? By the way it tells you all you want to know not need to know.

 

[Spotlite]

Tell me people don't cry in your church at the alter.

A person crying with a repented heart is not the same as what you were referring to as those sad crying services.

The emotional affects that you were eluding to is similar to what happens at a funeral. A few people repenting or shedding tears at the alter has never had a sad affect on anything that I’ve ever witnessed.