Evolution debate will soon be history

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
http://news.yahoo.com/scientist-evolution-debate-soon-history-155252505.html

NEW YORK (AP) — Richard Leakey predicts skepticism over evolution will soon be history.

Not that the avowed atheist has any doubts himself.

Sometime in the next 15 to 30 years, the Kenyan-born paleoanthropologist expects scientific discoveries will have accelerated to the point that "even the skeptics can accept it."

"If you get to the stage where you can persuade people on the evidence, that it's solid, that we are all African, that color is superficial, that stages of development of culture are all interactive," Leakey says, "then I think we have a chance of a world that will respond better to global challenges."

Leakey, a professor at Stony Brook University on Long Island, recently spent several weeks in New York promoting the Turkana Basin Institute in Kenya. The institute, where Leakey spends most of his time, welcomes researchers and scientists from around the world dedicated to unearthing the origins of mankind in an area rich with fossils.

His friend, Paul Simon, performed at a May 2 fundraiser for the institute in Manhattan that collected more than $2 million. A National Geographic documentary on his work at Turkana aired this month on public television.

Now 67, Leakey is the son of the late Louis and Mary Leakey and conducts research with his wife, Meave, and daughter, Louise. The family claims to have unearthed "much of the existing fossil evidence for human evolution."

On the eve of his return to Africa earlier this week, Leakey spoke to The Associated Press in New York City about the past and the future.

"If you look back, the thing that strikes you, if you've got any sensitivity, is that extinction is the most common phenomena," Leakey says. "Extinction is always driven by environmental change. Environmental change is always driven by climate change. Man accelerated, if not created, planet change phenomena; I think we have to recognize that the future is by no means a very rosy one."

Any hope for mankind's future, he insists, rests on accepting existing scientific evidence of its past.

"If we're spreading out across the world from centers like Europe and America that evolution is nonsense and science is nonsense, how do you combat new pathogens, how do you combat new strains of disease that are evolving in the environment?" he asked.

"If you don't like the word evolution, I don't care what you call it, but life has changed. You can lay out all the fossils that have been collected and establish lineages that even a fool could work up. So the question is why, how does this happen? It's not covered by Genesis. There's no explanation for this change going back 500 million years in any book I've read from the lips of any God."

Leakey insists he has no animosity toward religion.

"If you tell me, well, people really need a faith ... I understand that," he said.

"I see no reason why you shouldn't go through your life thinking if you're a good citizen, you'll get a better future in the afterlife ...."

Leakey began his work searching for fossils in the mid-1960s. His team unearthed a nearly complete 1.6-million-year-old skeleton in 1984 that became known as "Turkana Boy," the first known early human with long legs, short arms and a tall stature.

In the late 1980s, Leakey began a career in government service in Kenya, heading the Kenya Wildlife Service. He led the quest to protect elephants from poachers who were killing the animals at an alarming rate in order to harvest their valuable ivory tusks. He gathered 12 tons of confiscated ivory in Nairobi National Park and set it afire in a 1989 demonstration that attracted worldwide headlines.

In 1993, Leakey crashed a small propeller-driven plane; his lower legs were later amputated and he now gets around on artificial limbs. There were suspicions the plane had been sabotaged by his political enemies, but it was never proven.

About a decade ago, he visited Stony Brook University on eastern Long Island, a part of the State University of New York, as a guest lecturer. Then-President Shirley Strum Kenny began lobbying Leakey to join the faculty. It was a process that took about two years; he relented after returning to the campus to accept an honorary degree.

Kenny convinced him that he could remain in Kenya most of the time, where Stony Brook anthropology students could visit and learn about his work. And the college founded in 1957 would benefit from the gravitas of such a noted professor on its faculty.

"It was much easier to work with a new university that didn't have a 200-year-old image where it was so set in its ways like some of the Ivy League schools that you couldn't really change what they did and what they thought," he said.

Earlier this month, Paul Simon performed at a benefit dinner for the Turkana Basin Institute. IMAX CEO Rich Gelfond and his wife, Peggy Bonapace Gelfond, and billionaire hedge fund investor Jim Simons and his wife, Marilyn, were among those attending the exclusive show in Manhattan's Chelsea neighborhood.

Simon agreed to allow his music to be performed on the National Geographic documentary airing on PBS and donated an autographed guitar at the fundraiser that sold for nearly $20,000.

Leakey, who clearly cherishes investigating the past, is less optimistic about the future.

"We may be on the cusp of some very real disasters that have nothing to do with whether the elephant survives, or a cheetah survives, but if we survive."
 

ambush80

Senior Member
http://news.yahoo.com/scientist-evolution-debate-soon-history-155252505.html

NEW YORK (AP) — Richard Leakey predicts skepticism over evolution will soon be history.

Not that the avowed atheist has any doubts himself.

Sometime in the next 15 to 30 years, the Kenyan-born paleoanthropologist expects scientific discoveries will have accelerated to the point that "even the skeptics can accept it."

"If you get to the stage where you can persuade people on the evidence, that it's solid, that we are all African, that color is superficial, that stages of development of culture are all interactive," Leakey says, "then I think we have a chance of a world that will respond better to global challenges."

Leakey, a professor at Stony Brook University on Long Island, recently spent several weeks in New York promoting the Turkana Basin Institute in Kenya. The institute, where Leakey spends most of his time, welcomes researchers and scientists from around the world dedicated to unearthing the origins of mankind in an area rich with fossils.

His friend, Paul Simon, performed at a May 2 fundraiser for the institute in Manhattan that collected more than $2 million. A National Geographic documentary on his work at Turkana aired this month on public television.

Now 67, Leakey is the son of the late Louis and Mary Leakey and conducts research with his wife, Meave, and daughter, Louise. The family claims to have unearthed "much of the existing fossil evidence for human evolution."

On the eve of his return to Africa earlier this week, Leakey spoke to The Associated Press in New York City about the past and the future.

"If you look back, the thing that strikes you, if you've got any sensitivity, is that extinction is the most common phenomena," Leakey says. "Extinction is always driven by environmental change. Environmental change is always driven by climate change. Man accelerated, if not created, planet change phenomena; I think we have to recognize that the future is by no means a very rosy one."

Any hope for mankind's future, he insists, rests on accepting existing scientific evidence of its past.

"If we're spreading out across the world from centers like Europe and America that evolution is nonsense and science is nonsense, how do you combat new pathogens, how do you combat new strains of disease that are evolving in the environment?" he asked.

"If you don't like the word evolution, I don't care what you call it, but life has changed. You can lay out all the fossils that have been collected and establish lineages that even a fool could work up. So the question is why, how does this happen? It's not covered by Genesis. There's no explanation for this change going back 500 million years in any book I've read from the lips of any God."

Leakey insists he has no animosity toward religion.

"If you tell me, well, people really need a faith ... I understand that," he said.

"I see no reason why you shouldn't go through your life thinking if you're a good citizen, you'll get a better future in the afterlife ...."

Leakey began his work searching for fossils in the mid-1960s. His team unearthed a nearly complete 1.6-million-year-old skeleton in 1984 that became known as "Turkana Boy," the first known early human with long legs, short arms and a tall stature.

In the late 1980s, Leakey began a career in government service in Kenya, heading the Kenya Wildlife Service. He led the quest to protect elephants from poachers who were killing the animals at an alarming rate in order to harvest their valuable ivory tusks. He gathered 12 tons of confiscated ivory in Nairobi National Park and set it afire in a 1989 demonstration that attracted worldwide headlines.

In 1993, Leakey crashed a small propeller-driven plane; his lower legs were later amputated and he now gets around on artificial limbs. There were suspicions the plane had been sabotaged by his political enemies, but it was never proven.

About a decade ago, he visited Stony Brook University on eastern Long Island, a part of the State University of New York, as a guest lecturer. Then-President Shirley Strum Kenny began lobbying Leakey to join the faculty. It was a process that took about two years; he relented after returning to the campus to accept an honorary degree.

Kenny convinced him that he could remain in Kenya most of the time, where Stony Brook anthropology students could visit and learn about his work. And the college founded in 1957 would benefit from the gravitas of such a noted professor on its faculty.

"It was much easier to work with a new university that didn't have a 200-year-old image where it was so set in its ways like some of the Ivy League schools that you couldn't really change what they did and what they thought," he said.

Earlier this month, Paul Simon performed at a benefit dinner for the Turkana Basin Institute. IMAX CEO Rich Gelfond and his wife, Peggy Bonapace Gelfond, and billionaire hedge fund investor Jim Simons and his wife, Marilyn, were among those attending the exclusive show in Manhattan's Chelsea neighborhood.

Simon agreed to allow his music to be performed on the National Geographic documentary airing on PBS and donated an autographed guitar at the fundraiser that sold for nearly $20,000.

Leakey, who clearly cherishes investigating the past, is less optimistic about the future.

"We may be on the cusp of some very real disasters that have nothing to do with whether the elephant survives, or a cheetah survives, but if we survive."

Information like this is trumped by belief in talking donkeys.
 
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Four

Senior Member
Makes sense, faith will yield to evidence / science eventually, it's just a bit stubborn, this isn't the first nor last time it'll happen either.
 

TripleXBullies

Senior Member
I don't think man created planet change. I'm sure it is happening on every planet in our solar system. Just a small detail of the article I guess.
 

Four

Senior Member
I don't think man created planet change. I'm sure it is happening on every planet in our solar system. Just a small detail of the article I guess.

I agree to an extent. Its a little dumb to say man invented climate change / planet change. Change is a constant, things changed before man, things change after man.

There is however no doubt that the human species has had a huge environmental effect on the planet. Just look around.
 

TripleXBullies

Senior Member
I agree that we've affected it, but I don't think in as much of an impactful way as most think. I think global warming and holes in the ozone would have happened any way and in pretty much the same timeline. Of course I could be wrong and I don't think anyone can say for sure.
 

Four

Senior Member
I agree that we've affected it, but I don't think in as much of an impactful way as most think. I think global warming and holes in the ozone would have happened any way and in pretty much the same timeline. Of course I could be wrong and I don't think anyone can say for sure.

More to the point, i don't think it's completely relevant whether or not negative environmental changes are man-made or not... if we have the power to stop or slow them, we should. Regardless..
 

TripleXBullies

Senior Member
I guess none of this is the point of the thread... but something, whatever that might be, by 100 years, 1,000 years? That's not really much at all. Good for humans I guess but not anything for the planet.
 

Miguel Cervantes

Jedi Master
Makes sense, faith will yield to evidence / science eventually, it's just a bit stubborn, this isn't the first nor last time it'll happen either.

And it is being led by another Kenyan. We have first hand experience of how trustworthy they are here in the US now don't we? :rofl:
 

gordon 2

Senior Member
And it is being led by another Kenyan. We have first hand experience of how trustworthy they are here in the US now don't we? :rofl:

Why is the political forum full of polite people these days? Spinning is at an all time low.... what gives?:offtopic:
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
Go back far enough and we might all be Kenyans.
 

fish hawk

Bass Master
And some folks believe anything and everything they read over the internet!!!:huh::crazy:
 

Worley

Senior Member
Question

And the 200 year old ivy league schools , reckon why at the time would not consider the thoughts mentioned...I guess they were not at smart as the young ethiopian or because they believed in the bible... Just a question to ponder, reckon the Ethiopian ever been wrong at any time in his evaluations, I sure have been many times...not tying to stir anything, just skeptical of youthful evaluations that describe the complexity of creation...if something came from nothing, a creation without a creator and a design without a designer it would certainly be a phenomena that i have never observed...
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
And the 200 year old ivy league schools , reckon why at the time would not consider the thoughts mentioned...I guess they were not at smart as the young ethiopian or because they believed in the bible... Just a question to ponder, reckon the Ethiopian ever been wrong at any time in his evaluations, I sure have been many times...not tying to stir anything, just skeptical of youthful evaluations that describe the complexity of creation...if something came from nothing, a creation without a creator and a design without a designer it would certainly be a phenomena that i have never observed...

What other things have you never observed?
 

Worley

Senior Member
Observations

What other things have you never observed?

Well that was worded with room for such a comment..;).lots of things I've never observed, but since the whole topic comes from "personal observation " it would be relative to our discussion right...
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
And the 200 year old ivy league schools , reckon why at the time would not consider the thoughts mentioned...I guess they were not at smart as the young ethiopian or because they believed in the bible... Just a question to ponder, reckon the Ethiopian ever been wrong at any time in his evaluations, I sure have been many times...not tying to stir anything, just skeptical of youthful evaluations that describe the complexity of creation...if something came from nothing, a creation without a creator and a design without a designer it would certainly be a phenomena that i have never observed...

Is the designer and creator a God? Which God? Does one religions account accurately portray creation more correctly than the others? In your observations, just how old are the things beyond our universe and how long have they existed?
 

Four

Senior Member
I feel i have to mention AGAIN.

If your problem is an entity that is uncreated, placing a god that doesn't have a creator, to explain why everything must be created is paradoxical.
 
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