Gon editor opinion by Daryl Kirby

[Jack Flynn]

Read this, Daryl's right again. I had no clue the fed paid them to burn, so they do it? What we've been seeing and I saw it yesterday. They've burnt my favorite wma to the ground just about since January. A lot was still smoking yesterday. They're gobbling all over right now and they're burning! How about just stop burning for a couple of years and see the result. Years ago they didn't burn and turkey's were everywhere. Here's very key to me. The surrounding properties are loaded with turkey's. Let's do this even if goes against what we think we know.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Years ago they didn't burn and turkey's were everywhere.

Yeah. The fires occurred naturally and they were allowed to burn. We now live in a fire exclusion time and prescribed burning is the only way to bring back that habitat that allowed turkeys to thrive.

I agree that burning should be done judiciously. Mostly in regards to timing.

The Turkey is an umbrella species. If it proliferates then most other wildlife will too and it is a sign of a healthy ecosystem. Word is that Turkey numbers are down.

Just because a fire occurs at a time that is inconvenient for hunting doesn’t mean it is not going to still help. I don’t agree with the timing of these burns but IMO, it will still help the turkeys just not the Turkey hunters.

 

[Swamprat]

Have seen turkeys in burns that were still smoking.

Inconvenience for the hunter, turkey not so much.

 

[NCHillbilly]

Read this, Daryl's right again. I had no clue the fed paid them to burn, so they do it? What we've been seeing and I saw it yesterday. They've burnt my favorite wma to the ground just about since January. A lot was still smoking yesterday. ****es you off, they're gobbling all over right now and they're burning! How about just stop burning for a couple of years and see the result. Years ago they didn't burn and turkey's were everywhere. Here's very key to me. The surrounding properties are loaded with turkey's. Let's do this even if goes against what we think we know.

Be glad they're burning. Fire exclusion destroys habitat for turkeys and everything else.

 

[C.Killmaster]

Georgia is 93% privately owned, which means that 7% is government land of some form or fashion. Within that 7%, a huge portion is the Chattahoochee National Forest which is certainly not managed for RCWs. So of the remaining land only a portion is burned in any given year and much of that burning is done in winter. So am I supposed to believe that warm season burning on less than 1% of total land area of Georgia is the cause of a population decline in turkeys across the whole state?

 

[JustUs4All]

I read Daryl's piece and it doesn't seem to me that he is against burning. The only burning; that he refers to negatively is the "very large, very hot spring-time burns". This fits the description of burns to prep a piece of property for replanting after a clear cut harvest. They happen infrequently enough so that a hunter would be lucky to see three of these on a piece of property in his lifetime. Most other burns are managed to be much cooler burns so as to not damage the trees.

 

[NCHillbilly]

Accounts of early European explorers to the southeast chronicle large numbers of turkeys and other game. They also chronicle the Indians' almost obsessive constant burning of the landscape.

 

[Nicodemus]

Longleaf savannahs require frequent burns to stay healthy.

 

[NCHillbilly]

Longleaf savannahs require frequent burns to stay healthy.

And several other forest types.

 

[Blackston]

Georgia is 93% privately owned, which means that 7% is government land of some form or fashion. Within that 7%, a huge portion is the Chattahoochee National Forest which is certainly not managed for RCWs. So of the remaining land only a portion is burned in any given year and much of that burning is done in winter. So am I supposed to believe that warm season burning on less than 1% of total land area of Georgia is the cause of a population decline in turkeys across the whole state?

People don’t want the truth …. Hahaha

 

[Yelpu1]

Burns don’t hurt turkey, would be better if they limited the burn size. My favorite WMA just had huge area of old growth pine clear cut ( I’m assuming beetle damage), would be nice if they burned huge slash piles, coyotes don’t need new dens, we’re over run with them now.

 

[Long Cut]

Nah it ain’t the burning.

Poor habitat + High Predator Numbers + Diminishing Habitat from Urban Development = Reduced Prey Populations

Quail & Turkey are very habitat dependent to even survive, let alone thrive.

 

[Swamprat]

Quail are very habitat dependent - turkeys not as much. turkeys are pretty adaptive to habitat changes to the extent they have taken over some Northeast US towns where they have become a nuisance. Quail can only move so far a day, turkey can cover miles to look for it might not be the best of habitat but might be the most free of predators.

Just about any state in the SE is going to be private ownership for the majority. Thing is nobody really wants to burn their acreage due to liability fears. Timber companies have no interest in it at all and are fine with their property being a monoculture wasteland.

Seems like the folks who are private landowners that burn are quail operations. If you can get groups of folks with 40, 80, 100 etc. acres in a few mile radius agree to rotate burn portions of their property the benefits would be noticed fairly quick.

 

[buckpasser]

Poorly performed burns do in fact hurt turkey populations and there is no excuse for it. All public ground could be burned ahead of turkey nesting. Burned over nests are almost always destroyed. Renesting odds are crap. There’s no way to justify this and like it or not Bartram ain’t here no mo.

@C.Killmaster, the rub is the late burns on public ground at the same the government is telling us they want to help the “population problem” by starting season later and limiting opportunity. If I don’t have a “problem” on well managed private property (that’s burned before 3/7 of each year), it hurts to see the state guys destroying nests and nesting cover. Surely you can see the issue from our side, right? It’s dumb and should be addressed to keep the state employees from looking like idiots.

 

[buckpasser]

Burns don’t hurt turkey, would be better if they limited the burn size. My favorite WMA just had huge area of old growth pine clear cut ( I’m assuming beetle damage), would be nice if they burned huge slash piles, coyotes don’t need new dens, we’re over run with them now.

It was likely a beetle damage spot due to stress from the last poorly executed RX burn. Lol!!!

 

[buckpasser]

Quail are very habitat dependent - turkeys not as much. turkeys are pretty adaptive to habitat changes to the extent they have taken over some Northeast US towns where they have become a nuisance. Quail can only move so far a day, turkey can cover miles to look for it might not be the best of habitat but might be the most free of predators.

Just about any state in the SE is going to be private ownership for the majority. Thing is nobody really wants to burn their acreage due to liability fears. Timber companies have no interest in it at all and are fine with their property being a monoculture wasteland.

Seems like the folks who are private landowners that burn are quail operations. If you can get groups of folks with 40, 80, 100 etc. acres in a few mile radius agree to rotate burn portions of their property the benefits would be noticed fairly quick.

You’re not wrong. The quail burns are largely too late in my area as well, and their turkey pops are low (imagine that). I like the idea of smaller tract and smaller burns having noticeable impacts, and fully believe it’s true. I start in Jan and sometimes even Dec burning 10-40 acre blocks. I make a “quilt” out of the land area. The turkeys are spoiled in other ways too, but fire is the only tool I really couldn’t manage without.

I’ve invited Ricky with NWTF and Emily with GADNR to come look at the place. I’d like to show them that our nesting/breeding times are much different than they seem to think and the ridiculously high population we are experiencing relative to our neighbors, county and state. They haven’t come yet…

 

[Swamprat]

I’ve invited Ricky with NWTF and Emily with GADNR to come look at the place. I’d like to show them that our nesting/breeding times are much different than they seem to think and the ridiculously high population we are experiencing relative to our neighbors, county and state. They haven’t come yet…

And more than likely they are not interested in real world scenarios, most of these folks are listening to a few opinionated folks who think their word is gospel.

My only suggestion is contact the folks from TFT (Turkeys For Tomorrow)

As far as the few folks spouting opinion vs fact which is causing states to overreact with reduced season length. etc is that we will never get anything back. My state of Florida has held the same but that can be a detriment with neighboring states going to a later opener than what has been the norm for them.

Basically GA and Bama were a week or so later to open than Florida so most were not coming down to hunt but now when these two states are now 2 weeks and maybe 3 if it is public more of these folks are coming down. We all know that in South Alabama and South Georgia most of the birds are done by late March opener and on public early April. Yes you can get a bird to play then but not as much if it was a few weeks earlier.

 

[Long Cut]

Quail are very habitat dependent - turkeys not as much. turkeys are pretty adaptive to habitat changes to the extent they have taken over some Northeast US towns where they have become a nuisance. Quail can only move so far a day, turkey can cover miles to look for it might not be the best of habitat but might be the most free of predators.

Just about any state in the SE is going to be private ownership for the majority. Thing is nobody really wants to burn their acreage due to liability fears. Timber companies have no interest in it at all and are fine with their property being a monoculture wasteland.

Seems like the folks who are private landowners that burn are quail operations. If you can get groups of folks with 40, 80, 100 etc. acres in a few mile radius agree to rotate burn portions of their property the benefits would be noticed fairly quick.

Turkey are more-so habitat dependent from a predation aspect.
Especially when it comes to nesting.

The biggest argument I have for Winter vs Spring Rx Fires is going to be hardwood elimination at the mid story level.
A December-February burn will not kill sweet gums by itself.
An April-September burn will absolutely kill more sweetgums.

Now ask yourself, What is going to kill more turkeys? Poor habitat and high predator numbers or burning for 1-2 years to “reset” the mid story and achieve that “Savannah” type habitat we once had?

 

[buckpasser]

Turkey are more-so habitat dependent from a predation aspect.
Especially when it comes to nesting.

The biggest argument I have for Winter vs Spring Rx Fires is going to be hardwood elimination at the mid story level.
A December-February burn will not kill sweet gums by itself.
An April-September burn will absolutely kill more sweetgums.

Now ask yourself, What is going to kill more turkeys? Poor habitat and high predator numbers or burning for 1-2 years to “reset” the mid story and achieve that “Savannah” type habitat we once had?

I’ll ask myself a different question. “Do I want more turkeys or less?”

If we’re top killing sweetgums on a three year fire interval and burning zero nests, but never achieving Bartram’s wiregrass ecosystem, am I okay with that? Why yes, yes I am.

 

[Kev]

I help manage a 2500 acre tract down the road from my house. We burn religiously on that Tract and it has plenty of turkeys. The turkeys are about gone everywhere else though.