Her sins, which are many, are forgiven

[Israel]

Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.


Hanging on every word of our Lord.

How often do our discussions...not only here, but in ourselves, ourselves with others "not here", (that is: not on this forum) take on a measure of consideration that is so often reduced to chicken and egg, cart and horse?

"Be the ball" is an expression I have heard that I understand...even if wrongly, a certain way. If it means as I think...that is, let go of all overthinking, all approaches to a matter where success seems paramount (even if it be success in understanding and contingent upon outerly applied exertion) implies going beyond an imagining of identification, but to an actual identity...to "Be" the ball...not merely will the ball to the net, goal, or over the fence...but insert that will as of the very ball itself...do I understand this wrongly?

But isn't it problematic in its construction? Its advising? Its instruction (if there be any merit to it)? In order to "hear" the instruction... is it not to what is "not the ball" with instruction to "be it"...instead. Is it not?

In short..as in so many matters (and I do not think this is a stretch by any means) we find so many of these sort of instructions (especially written to us) that apply. "Be kind"..."be tenderhearted", "be zealous", "be honest", "be without dissimulation", "be faithful", "be patient" in other words...be all the things that, that, in order to "be"...there comes an a priori position of admission of need to be "other" or more, or different than the present stance for attaining to. How does what is not...these things...go to being these things?

How does one..."Be the ball"?

"I want to be the ball"? "It is good to be the ball...therefore I will myself to be what I am not?" (where does the will of what is not then, fit?) If I wish to be "what I am not...", then I must likewise...in that transition lose...the very will that was once impetus...to be it. Do you think...I overthink?

"You will get all you want when you lose the desire (as once impetus) for it..."?

There's a woman who is called "St Teresa" (by some) who, for us suffices to be known as Teresa of Avila. I am only familiar with a few of the quotes attributed to her, but enough that her frankness, and admissions of coming to a place that...even if seeming "too frank"...sometimes bordering on what would appear scandalous confessions ring true...the way a man who says "Yes, I have flown an airplane" and tells me it is never wise to not remember to turn on the "carb heat" when on landing approach...rings true as having done it. A thing that signals to another of participation in truth.

She said (as are attributed)..."No man can enter Heaven apart from entering into himself"...or as she is quoted of once saying (I suppose in some time of prayer with the Lord) "If this is the way you treat your friends, no wonder you have so few of them". But this one is the one I find most convenient to present discussion... "I do not want God, but, I want to want God".
I am not what wants God...but I believe it is good to be so...so "I want to want God"...how very frank!


I don't want what is all full of not my own will...but...

Jesus said something:

If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority.

It will hurt...but I am asking this be read...again.

If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority.

Jesus make us "the ball".

What cannot of itself will itself to be a certain thing (or really anything) only can, by a power not its own (and in this case as in all...by word of power upon it)..."be". Where was the "it" (if one would say..."before") before the acting of word of power...upon it? Was...it?

When...are any...created?

Do you think this is...overthought?

Read then the first passage of this OP.

Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

"Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much" would imply...she was forgiven because (for) "she loved much." Would it not?

Yet...He goes on to say:

but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

If you do not sense you are being "bounced around"...if this just seems a fool's (as who could deny it?) considerations...


So be it.

Would any of us have any care to "love much?"

but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

No man can enter Heaven apart from entering himself.

Will any ascend...as He did?

What does “He ascended” mean, except that He also descended to the lower parts of the earth?

The fanciest dust is still just...

Till it is made what it is not.

 

[gordon 2]

Well I think the power of love can be misdirected when it is having too much trust in man--especially after puberty. In my case, not every girl is the image of my mom I found out.

The love of a mother and the love of God are hard pan.

In the case of Teresa I think God was her mother. Teresa craved to ever run to Him and the embrace that comforted her.
..................

"Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little."

It must be possible that one can live and love little or live without the context of loving as a mother does where all the people in my community or in hospitals or in church, in the nation, in the world are not my brothers and sisters and are not all my mother's children. But it must be possible to live in the context of a mother's love for her brood which includes all the items listed above--- and in fact be interacting in a world of imperfect beings and being one of those beings acting sometimes through love with imperfection-- and within the context of imperfection yet be heaven bent on loving.

Puberty will settle down. Most people would know just for a one time meeting with Jesus what love is--period. Teresa was addicted to this time and craved many of them.

Most of us are more like the short statured guy who went up a tree so he could see Jesus go by, perhaps just for something to do. Jesus goes home with him to make the story short and the dud's heart regards love was said never the same again.


There is something about marriage, mothers and dads and families and children that teach the heart of God in some cases where we are just one ball of many balls caused by the power of love. A ball* ( in the context u use it) that ventures first with his or her heart instead of their faces are surely objects of loving forgiveness--- because they themselves forgive much and suffer much to love. In love they believe. And God through Jesus Christ willed to change our hearts, to deal in hearts and not in faces.

In love always, forgive me if I'm out of context.

 

[gordon 2]

Sometimes it takes some time to listen to the heart of God like we sometimes listen to poets who sing of the heart. Sometimes it takes time to get the song.

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[gordon 2]

Listen to the blues. Listen to what they sayin.

 

[StriperAddict]

I don't believe this a trust in man thing as much as it is a Man entrusted to man by which our devastation of Adam is seen in enough light.
It's the knowing of being forgiven much - taken from the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and when love comes along to help the abandoning of our own self righteous resourcefulness of that tree ... well then hot diggity, our response is certainly a MUCH love kind of thing.

Good fruit cannot be born in any other intimate encounter. Or knowing.

Yes, if our house gets cleaned thru and thru for all of life and eternity it comes with the paid in full receipt from heavens janitor.

And I hope our minds, tempted of our self sufficiency, will behold the very love and grace to bring our peace, which passes all earthly understanding.

 

[StriperAddict]

And for clarification,

As in Adam all die,
So also in Christ shall all be made alive.

 

[StriperAddict]

I am aware it is neither in my power, nor indeed even in any call I may sense or feel, to deal with that thing that might like to find any comfort by inwardly translating that verse to any form of "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, as I used to be...the chiefest among"

I thought of that very verse, "and such were some of you" as I read your message. I don't think the verse removes our dissatisfaction over our many stumbles, but puts into place an ongoing knowing of mercy that did a redemptive, permanent work out of the stall of our first believing, our first sight, like a babe who in childlike faith beholds the face of his new family, Abba, Spirit and Christ.

Yet historically, being chief among sinners is like Wayne Gretsky declaring he's the best in hockey. He's not on the ice anymore, just as we no longer have the heart's desire for what kills (Sin). I'm not suggesting a beholding of the false identity doesn't temp us. But NOT with the same power it did when new life was foreign. Were sin to settle into our new-ness I dare say we could survive. Were we not given the Spirit/comforter to guide us into His right-ness we'd have no peace.

So for starters, maybe it is a good thing to be provoked that the old Adam that once was us, is crucified. Yes, there really are cancellations of the redemptive kind yielding peace.
The sorrow of sin?, yes, a certain thing for believers.
But I'm careful not to get life from such sorrow. I'll trust that in the mire of nonsensical fleshly thinking - I'm being wooed into what the cross and resurrection fully did for me. And to me.

Such were ... !

 

[Israel]

I thought of that very verse, "and such were some of you" as I read your message. I don't think the verse removes our dissatisfaction over our many stumbles, but puts into place an ongoing knowing of mercy that did a redemptive, permanent work out of the stall of our first believing, our first sight, like a babe who in childlike faith beholds the face of his new family, Abba, Spirit and Christ.

Yet historically, being chief among sinners is like Wayne Gretsky declaring he's the best in hockey. He's not on the ice anymore, just as we no longer have the heart's desire for what kills (Sin). I'm not suggesting a beholding of the false identity doesn't temp us. But NOT with the same power it did when new life was foreign. Were sin to settle into our new-ness I dare say we could survive. Were we not given the Spirit/comforter to guide us into His right-ness we'd have no peace.

So for starters, maybe it is a good thing to be provoked that the old Adam that once was us, is crucified. Yes, there really are cancellations of the redemptive kind yielding peace.
The sorrow of sin?, yes, a certain thing for believers.
But I'm careful not to get life from such sorrow. I'll trust that in the mire of nonsensical fleshly thinking - I'm being wooed into what the cross and resurrection fully did for me. And to me.

Such were ... !

I find this a gem

But I'm careful not to get life from such sorrow.

As it appears to me to mean "I do not let a self drubbing satisfy anything as though if I have beaten myself up enough I am entitled to relief...(and draw life from that)"

I do not claim being familiar with that cycle means I am free of it, but I am enough aware that it is a form that lends itself to a self absolving, a "doing enough penance" in misery to allow for payment toward a purchased "joy". Yes, I am very glad you remind us of that.

As in the above "not claiming" I no more claim that seeing my propensity toward overstepping and presumption also indicates a being free of it. I simply know (to whatever extent I do) that it is a thing needing correction, and convinced of that, faith persuades me to see how that "is done" in Christ.

How to be (if one can receive it) united without space between (maybe there is no other true "united") but without that coarse familiarity (again...perhaps only true unity itself does away with that) that I be no cause for shame. This is still (or again) of faith's persuasion that only in Christ can this be seen or understood.

This outworking of my many undeniably cringeworthy moments and occasions over these few years contrast plainly with the "not one misstep" found in Jesus Christ.

"Well, silly man, of course you are not the Lord!" would be the handiest (and perhaps kindest) rebuke a seasoned soul here might minister; yet even in agreement I search in that unity faith reveals for whatever censure of my own workings that will adequately deliver from shaming.

If I glory in my weakness and infirmities, I also find a reproval comes in spirit (so rightly so) as warning of not merely seeking excuse in them. If I draw too fine a line (again in presumption) it may well be that I have not even begun to rightly glory. On the one hand (again if one can receive, or see it) liberty is too marvelous a gift...that comes with many cautions, which despite their being cannot inhibit its manifestation in Christ.

There are, or found (at least by me) very particular places in scripture that point (if my leading is too off course God knows) that make it too bearable (if not inviting) for entry into making "but he is such a shameful christian" a description I am not only ready to have applied...but even (too?) eager to wear.

Perhaps these matters are too frankly addressed for an "open" forum, but I am reminded of a boldness into which some have entered that is like that cool drink of water to another soul.

It matters not at all, of course, that my seeing of anything means, or should mean anything to any other. Our places of wrestling till matters be settled in us God knows, but I am persuaded to the "too wonderful" as being part and parcel of that into which we have been delivered.

 

[StriperAddict]

If I glory in my weakness and infirmities, I also find a reproval comes in spirit (so rightly so) as warning of not merely seeking excuse in them. If I draw too fine a line (again in presumption) it may well be that I have not even begun to rightly glory. On the one hand (again if one can receive, or see it) liberty is too marvelous a gift...that comes with many cautions, which despite their being cannot inhibit its manifestation in Christ.

Yes, this is the tie to humanity that when seen brings emphatic witness. Being bold with all that redemption brings is contrasted with the torrents of the soul. Yet in this wrestling before our fellow man we have this confidence, not in ourselves, but the lifegiver within to bring the comfort of the Close-ness from Christ whose comfort arises us from our self condemnations. Rom 8:1, there is therefore now no condemnation - for those in Christ, is the message we take best with us and even in our weakest before men. It could showcase the strength of another to which we desperately depend.

Perhaps these matters are too frankly addressed for an "open" forum, but I am reminded of a boldness into which some have entered that is like that cool drink of water to another soul.

Exactly. It's tough to express these points, at times, when so much the better would be in person. I hope that you and all that share here have those special people close at hand to bear in each others burdens. They also are diamonds in the ruff !

 

[gordon 2]

When I was a child I did not have concerns with yesterdays or tomorrows. God had designed my parents to be much more than I in this regard. My parents not only had my back due 24 hours back and ahead, but also had a collective span of lived experience perhaps of a 150 yrs back due to relatives and people they knew and some knowledge of certain expectations for he future. So as a child how much more than I was Christ Jesus who is now with the Father and so as an adult how much more is God that I.

In the beginning was the Word to which I was not present as a witness.

14 Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

To us, even the elect, perhaps the kingdom of heaven has borders or at the borders some nebulous no man's land between sin and sinlessness. Though we see, we continue to see in a glass darkly someone said... Nevertheless...when Jesus goes by give strength to my heart and though I will forget about yesterdays and tomorrow make it that I will never forget your love that was in the beginning, that always was and always will be. Lord let me drink life in your love and "see" due it.