The measure of faith is not...

[gordon 2]

"Do not be overly righteous, and do not make yourself too wise. Why should you destroy yourself?" Ecclesiastes 7:16

"For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but think of yourself with sober judgment, according to the measure of faith God has given you." Romans 12:3

I must confess that sometimes a phrase jumps out at me in scripture that seems to skew the chapter and verse context. It occurs to me today that the phrase" according to the measure of faith God has given you" might be one good case of this, for me at least.

I had previously thought that this phrase meant that God has given to us in Jesus our Lord, to each individual in Christ, a degree of faith sometimes different to one from the other.

This understanding was especially enforced by my further reading that within the body of Christ some were given to prophecy, some to teaching, some to leading, some to... And so the context was to me that faith itself, an item due God's grace, was an item of degree and different in each of us accounting for the effectiveness and robustness of the Church.

Context. Context. Context. It is interesting I think that little phrases in longer ones patina our understanding or how long thoughtful phrases seem to be out there to elaborate on context.

Sometimes however little phrases stand by themselves sentinel of nothing other then themselves, sentences that escape great notice, because after all long sentences seem to be needed in order for our minds to get to "real" context.

I don't know about others, but the many ways my mother looked at me, often required not even one word to explain the context of what her meaning was.

If Jesus once compared himself to a hen wanting to gather up her chicks... one might get the context here that Jesus is wanting to minister so as to gather up his people without needing to elaborate by means of essay what is really going on.

So it was that once I thought that the measure of faith was something members of the Church possessed differently. I was given this amount, you were given another amount and so on. Today I repent. The context of Chapter and verse has changed for me by the notice today of one little sentence in the sentence scheme of Romans 12.

Here is the sentence which accounts for my repentance that I had a chapter and verse context totally wrong for perhaps 50 yrs or more. Or at least that I held that the measure of faith was something we possessed differently one from the other.

Voila: "Love must be sincere".

There is no other measure of faith. A love that is sincere is the measure of faith. It is this love which is the measure of everyone who shares our faith and in this love we all share equally. This is the measure of faith: love is.

And so the context of Romans 12 is different for me today. It does not matter what we do with our talents they must be done with the measure of our faith common to the faithful, which in Jesus Christ is love, and a love we all share equally--- this sentinel of our shared faith. God's love is our measure of faith, due God's grace.

Funny how even an old man can visit scripture and understand things new like it was when he was young.

Today the measure of faith is love and for God's grace the old context I gave to a chapter and verse has moved away, like the snow on a mountain carried off by the wind and the sun.

 

[BanjoPicker]

This understanding was especially enforced by my further reading that within the body of Christ some were given to prophecy, some to teaching, some to leading, some to... And so the context was to me that faith itself, an item due God's grace, was an item of degree and different in each of us accounting for the effectiveness and robustness of the Church

How do you see that this has any part to do with prophecy which is a gift for faith and the Spirit of gifts are not the same?

 

[BanjoPicker]

What I am saying is that your right about the measure of faith a man can have by how close he becomes to God, the same stands for the Spirit also. when one is born again, they only get a measure of the Spirit and not the fulness of it.

 

[gordon 2]

How do you see that this has any part to do with prophecy which is a gift for faith and the Spirit of gifts are not the same?

I'm not sure I understand your question. But let me guess. I understood that faith was what "permitted" one to teach, or prophecy. Simply I read scripture with a carnal mindset. One can teach and prophecy from a position of hate and fear, from worry and anxiety.

"Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; 7Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; 8Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness."

I think I read this above with a puffed up mind with its logical algorithms as the mind makes--- and not as God makes.

The proportion of faith I read as the world views proportions. One talent to you, two to me and 10 to Donald Trump etc.... and not simply as the one proportion of faith that makes faith real. That proportion being love and love complete.

Basically I interpreted scripture because I was trying to study with my mind instead of my heart. The mind must always be rebooted perhaps, renewed, reformatted because it likes ruts. It likes its own group of witnesses. The heart jumps in the mind's face and say " Hey you have witnesses who have no witness at all? Witnesses that go by what others say and so what they have been thought and so believe in this way understand what scripture says."

I don't know if this answers your question. If not, help me out. For now the measure of faith is love. The fact that I am able to teach and learn is not dependent on love, but when love comes onto the pallet of a teacher or a student... scripture makes a whole lot more Godly sense. Perhaps.

The measure of the Spirit as not fully love is something that is in the way, in the way as a burden or impediment perhaps. What is in the way is my carnal mindset. My this for that mentality ( a+b=c) that keeps my spiritual life and the context of scripture bogged down and not towards the life of this for this--- Or love for love. Or love for its own sake as the only measure of faith in the spiritual prophet, the anointed teacher, the long suffering minister, understanding with exhortation, janitor-custodians and grounds keepers wise as to the wisdom of the saints, etc...

 

[BanjoPicker]

I'm not sure I understand your question. But let me guess. I understood that faith was what "permitted" one to teach, or prophecy. Simply I read scripture with a carnal mindset.

"Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; 7Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; 8Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness."

I think I read this above with a puffed up mind with its logical algorithms as the mind makes--- and not as God makes.

The proportion of faith I read as the world views proportions. One talent to you, two two me and 10 to Donald Trump etc.... and not simply as the one proportion of faith that makes faith real. That proportion being love and love complete.

Basically I interpreted scripture because I was trying to study with my mind instead of my heart. The mind must always be rebooted perhaps, renewed, reformatted because it likes ruts. It likes its own group of witnesses. The heart well in the mind's face and say " Hey you have witnesses who have no witness at all as they go by what others say and so what they have been thought and so believe what scripture says."

I don't know if this answers your question. If not, help me out. For now the measure of faith is love. The fact that I am able to teach and learn is not dependent on love, but when love comes onto the pallet of a teacher or a student... scripture makes a whole lot more Godly sense. Perhaps.

The measure of the Spirit as not fully love is something that is in the way. Perhaps. What is in the way is my carnal mindset. My this for that mentality ( a+b=c) that keeps my spiritual life and the context of scripture bogged down and not toward the life of this for this--- Or love for love. Or love for its own sake as the only measure of faith in the prophet, the teacher, ministering, exhortation, janitor-custodian, grounds keeper, etc...

The Bible Scriptures speaks of 14 kinds of faith a man can have so which are you referring to?

 

[gordon 2]

The Bible Scriptures speaks of 14 kinds of faith a man can have so which are you referring to?

I had no idea that the bible writers dissected faith like some do towards God. It is the first that I read of this. I had reconnoitered for myself that faith was conveniently of two general aspects, but this was for my use only and not concept gleaned from the bible, for which I did not share with someone other than once. I will share it now however:

It is that faith has the aspect of making one blind for one's own good. Trust that the cross is real, that Christ Jesus died for our sins is sufficient as a wholesome faith. If we have only this and we are blind as to why we hold to it as truth it is a kind of faith and it is beautiful to see. So that is one kind of faith. There is another.

Faith besides this first one is that faith which is build up in the faithful which reaches far away from our carnal minds and hearts so much so that man is abled to walk with God now--- come as you are. It is faith as lived due our understanding from God's perspective. We have faith because we trust in God and we know why. We know we can trust in this faith because we know why prophecy and the cross are truth and the spiritual way they minister as to truth. This faith is not blind. We are abled to know God apart from depending on scripture, or religion, but from some personal witness. "You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart."

So this is my experience. The man of blind faith must struggle with his mind to find God, (and keep Him) especially for the belief that scripture alone tells as the most reliable witness or word of God. Second the man of seeing faith struggles less for he reads scripture with his heart. His understanding is due the work God has done in this man or women. ( I'm sure there are a million better ways of saying this.)

Now you tell me that there is so many faiths said in scripture (7+7=14) as the many ingredients possible into making a salad? Explain please. If you have some sort of discernment on such things, you probably know what kind of faith I'm onto more than I do. Explain please. I trust in your love of God bros. Help me. Tell me, what faith do I have? Or tell me I have not faith at all as some do saying I have the faith common to Christendom and that it is no faith at all.???

“So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these."

My faith is not layered. I don't think.