Who raised the children that went into Canaan land?

[gordon 2]

I would like to discuss on the subject of how it happened that the generation of Hebrews that were held back from going into the Promised Land were able to raise Children that did?

I am serious. And I don't know the details or the answers. So maybe some might be so brave, having some knowledge of these people to share the details of why parents were not allowed to enter the Promised Land and yet themselves raised children that did.

And I am equally serious if some might take up a discussion on this in that our generation has raised up children who are now adults and it is unlikely that their generation will know the Kingdom of God common to their parent's faith.

Would studying why a generation of Hebrews were not able and prevented from the Promised Land be beneficial to understanding our own society today?

Why did the God fearing Boomers, like myself, raise up children who now are adults reject that the ways we loved and loved them was no love model for them at all? Why is it that the boomers who lived to give their children comforts no other generation had ever known, must endure the judgement that the comforts they provided and our love and shockingly our faith in Christ, was not comfort and no model of love at all?

I hope some might know what I'm driving at. I would hope that someone, brothers and sisters in Christ perhaps, or perhaps a Samaritan might know to minister to me. Why are my children lost to the faith? Have I confused them? Not that they fail me, but I might have failed them, is there a lesson, a hope to take that my children's generation will not be like the Hebrews who were fully held to the last of themselves from Canaan Land? Will Christ again make it work like this yet we are of a different covenant?

Now that I might be a failure to love as love should have been is not the issue. My children and the grand children I will never know that they are to be intimate with the Lord, what is the Lord's dynamic that I might hope they live in the truth? I do not what salve for my old man passions for looking back . I am forward looking.


How is it that the desert bound Hebrews in their red and dry landscapes raised children that crossed over into the Promised Land and so to milk and honey? What push did God give them that was not available to the parents?

Now is the time for bible scholars to shine and feed this old man with foods he can chew. . Or, from no bible scholars at all. I am seriously confident.

 

[gordon 2]

While doing a bit of searching I found this and it might be very relevant to the topic. How is a man and a father--- a man and a father?

https://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1139&context=sor_fac_pubs#:~:text=There%20are%20three%20major%20factors,right%20kind%20of%20home%20environment.

Ideas?

 

[Madman]

G2,

I don’t know, but I do know it breaks my heart to read your post.

There are many elements that form a person, one being your faith tradition. What does your tradition teach? Is it an ancient faith, what about the institutions your children attended, what influenced them while they were away from you? Did your tradition provide reasonable answers to their questions?

My wife and I spent hours, days, weeks , years, helping our children study their faith, and giving reasonable answers to the objections they heard.

I believe most young people have “left” the faith by time they are in middle school because they have not been given reasonable answers for their questions.

My wife and I have been very fortunate, both of our sons have continued in the faith and in the tradition they had as children. As I brought my wife into the ancient catholic faith, my sons have brought their wives and children in.

I know nothing of your situation, or story, I know mine and it was a daily struggle to defend my family from the fiery arrows of satan.

One thing that is certain, God has a lifetime to match a prayer to an outcome, the only reason I am where I am and my children are where they are is due to the prayers of my grandmother, my mother, and my wife.

Gods peace G2. Keep the faith.

 

[gordon 2]

G2,

I don’t know, but I do know it breaks my heart to read your post.

There are many elements that form a person, one being your faith tradition. What does your tradition teach? Is it an ancient faith, what about the institutions your children attended, what influenced them while they were away from you? Did your tradition provide reasonable answers to their questions?

My wife and I spent hours, days, weeks , years, helping our children study their faith, and giving reasonable answers to the objections they heard.

I believe most young people have “left” the faith by time they are in middle school because they have not been given reasonable answers for their questions.

My wife and I have been very fortunate, both of our sons have continued in the faith and in the tradition they had as children. As I brought my wife into the ancient catholic faith, my sons have brought their wives and children in.

I know nothing of your situation, or story, I know mine and it was a daily struggle to defend my family from the fiery arrows of satan.

One thing that is certain, God has a lifetime to match a prayer to an outcome, the only reason I am where I am and my children are where they are is due to the prayers of my grandmother, my mother, and my wife.

Gods peace G2. Keep the faith.

If your heart must break I hope it is not over me. My nerves are not undone.

And yet you might have hit a vain, a nail, I know well.

The prayers of grandmothers, mothers and wives. Perhaps it was my generation's sin to think that men of good faith could cover for the Intercessory prayers of women.

For a good cause to serve our sisters, I tricked myself that women could do the dishes, cook, nurture the children, do the beds, mop the floors, do the shopping, ferry the children to built them up socially, and work 40 -50 hr weeks for many good reasons and have the time for intercessory prayers and opening the bible yet vexed by time limit-constraints. And no, if it is the case, it was not my sisters' fault! I worked to offer to her and so she could also handle our credit cards.

Perhaps what was work for good things... was ill balanced even to excess sometimes. From a love that nurtured love's good intentions and deeds, work and strong efforts were misapplied and that for these, despite these, I though my children would give me some credit--- and God a fair chance!

So my children are angry at me. In love, for love and by love I covered perhaps for too many things and I hid from myself how my grand mother loved me so that I could hope good things for others and how she was nearly always there at any times of the day, always there to welcome all the neighborhood kids.

My children never knew the grandmothers I knew. Their time was ended. The closest they got in this experience was to be dropped off to daycare after school. Hum!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Much appreciated.

 

[Madman]

If your heart must break I hope it is not over me. My nerves are not undone.

And yet you might have hit a vain, a nail, I know well.

The prayers of grandmothers, mothers and wives. Perhaps it was my generation's sin to think that men of good faith could cover for the Intercessory prayers of women.

For a good cause to serve our sisters, I tricked myself that women could do the dishes, cook, nurture the children, do the beds, mop the floors, do the shopping, ferry the children to built them up socially, and work 40 -50 hr weeks for many good reasons and have the time for intercessory prayers and opening the bible yet vexed by time limit-constraints. And no, if it is the case, it was not my sisters' fault! I worked to offer to her and so she could also handle our credit cards.

Perhaps what was work for good things... was ill balanced even to excess sometimes. From a love that nurtured love's good intentions and deeds, work and strong efforts were misapplied and that for these, despite these, I though my children would give me some credit--- and God a fair chance!

So my children are angry at me. In love, for love and by love I covered perhaps for too many things and I hid from myself how my grand mother loved me so that I could hope good things for others and how she was nearly always there at any times of the day, always there to welcome all the neighborhood kids.

My children never knew the grandmothers I knew. Their time was ended. The closest they got in this experience was to be dropped off to daycare after school. Hum!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Much appreciated.

The prayers of women! Such balm! I look to Mary sometimes,

To the servants “do what he says” , to her son she implies “tell them what to do”.

The wife did not sit on at the right hand of the king, the king’s mother sat at his Right hand.

Happy Sunday brother.

 

[Artfuldodger]

I wonder though if a lot of younger generations, even back to the Seventies, just left a part of what we see as God.
Perhaps parents who went to Church but didn't display Christian attitudes. Maybe a Church that didn't either.

Maybe they saw all the Church stuff as pomp and circumstance. Maybe they saw if as Old Fashioned.

It's possible they haven't lost their place in the future Kingdom of God after all. Only God knows them by their heart and not their outward appearance.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Getting back to your OP, it is interesting. A whole generation of parents that could not enter because they were evil. Yet their children were not evil and could.
Seem like I'm missing part of the story?

 

[gordon 2]

Getting back to your OP, it is interesting. A whole generation of parents that could not enter because they were evil. Yet their children were not evil and could.
Seem like I'm missing part of the story?

Lazy, I had assumed that the answer would roll off of someone's key boards line and paragraph like a wool sweater off of someone's back. I now guess I'll have to do the work of carding for myself .

 

[Madman]

Lazy, I had assumed that the answer would roll off of someone's key boards line and paragraph like a wool sweater off of someone's back. I now guess I'll have to do the work of carding for myself .

To be like Paul for my children.

“For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my people, those of my own race,”

 

[Artfuldodger]

Maybe we see ourselves or the current generation as having a more Christian way of life than that of our parents and thus our children.
Likewise, our children, the next generation might see themselves as more righteous than us? I think my kids do, lol.
I guess in a lot of ways, I feel like I'm a bit more righteous than my parents or at least my generation. I'm not sure any of this is related to any of us seeing our Promised Land as perhaps now it's based more on individuals that nations or generations.

 

[gordon 2]

I never thought that my generation was spiritually better than that of my parents or grand parents. In some ways my generation was worse then theirs. At least my parent's generation did not willingly declare themselves to be led by novel gods and or to be in communion with no gods at all.

All generations have their own social and economic challenges. And there seems to be a cycle or an up and down to the generations. One generation has its ups and another for those ups its downs perhaps.

I have had the good fortune of knowing people who lived in three centuries. I have sat at the tables of people who were alive in the 1800s and who's families and the events of the world even into the early 1800s were as present to them as our families and world events since the early 1950s and the 1910s are vivid to me. And now I share the roads with men who only saw life after 2000 and some know me. All of them when they look back looked back into the faces of those who lived before them and those who raised them. It was never easy.

If I could take a poll on the great change marker of the 19th, 20th and 21 century I think it was shortly after WW11 that marked the before and after of electricity. I think that all sane men and women all these times most likely would agree. Light and electric energy got to be something as exceptional as when some came into their Promised Land. Light and electricity made a soda fountain of all the milk and honey. As soon as the handle of the soda fountain was pulled and the beater hit the mix and the ice was crushed to cool it and it could be on the spoon and into our mouths that was it.

Yet our spiritual drinks and foods had no such short routes for electricity. Yet the lights could be on later evening services, pastoring had to be assemble from almost forgotten memories of an ancient Egypt, straining with the arguments of kings, debating with ourselves what was best for the flock at such and such an altitude.

The only thing that was really really fast in the 19,th, 20th and 21 century and that could compare and compete with the swift light that both men and women saw due grace from their spiritual places of worship and in their prayer rooms and which suddenly changed their lives radically and so quickly was --- electricity light. To it men and women converted faster. And the change was faster than a spiritual conversion and at first cost no more than the pennies dropped in the collection boxes.

 

[Madman]

Susanna Wesley “struggled to find a secret place to get away with Charles. So she advised her children that when they saw her with her apron over her head, that meant she was in prayer and couldn't be disturbed. She was devoted to her walk with Christ, praying for her children and knowledge in the Word no matter how hard life was.”

We did not have as many children as the Wesley’s so my wife needs no apron for solitude. She is the “boiler room” of our home, as my mother was before her, and my mother’s mother before her.

 

[gordon 2]

I have had as a young man a short ten year career as a university book store manager. There were two people I could trust about the truth of things and who were never afraid to dish out their wisdom of what really mattered on campus and everywhere else. One was the boiler room steam engineer and the other was a janitor who mopped and brushed the Administration halls.

They were the real boots to the ground that kept the whole place smart---when everyone else went stupid. And there was this maintenance painter who once told me that he knew why there were engineers in this world. He said, while he was up on a stepladder painting around a fancy window molding, " Engineers have been abused by their parents when they were young and so they go to engineering school to take it out on us." I can't write this without giving him credit.

 

[Madman]

Back to the OP. Even though the children of the Israelites entered Canaan they seemed to have a problem, as we read in the Book of Judges they fell and fell and fell again, 7 times.

Thank God for mercy.

 

[gordon 2]

I have not retired from the subject of this tread.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

40 years is enough for at least 2 new generations to be born with an adult generation raising a younger generation.

 

[gordon 2]

I have never really considered that generations as you describe. It is thought provoking. ( especially in regards to the Hebrews in the desert)

I generally think that I lived most of my life in the generation that fought and experienced the consequences of WW1 and WW11. This is the generation I was born into and which ended aprox 5 yrs ago simply because these people are no longer eligible for nursing homes. They have all but a very few passed away and so the generation. Since this and now it is a new generation who reads of these people of both world wars as we read of the civil war and its generation. I don't know why but I judge the generations by the unique harm the world did to them and how they "faced" their times.

 

[Madman]

My faith tradition, and my children’s faith traditions, do not allow the internet to intercede in lieu of physical attendance. It is impossible for the priest to lay the body of Christ on your tongue, or to drink his blood from the chalice, on a video screen.

I believe a lot of people just want to be entertained.

 

[gordon 2]

My faith tradition, and my children’s faith traditions, do not allow the internet to intercede in lieu of physical attendance. It is impossible for the priest to lay the body of Christ on your tongue, or to drink his blood from the chalice, on a video screen.

I believe a lot of people just want to be entertained.

I recall when some people were faithful followers to bible based TV services, crusade broadcasts, mass for shut ins, mass from the Vatican and even radio broadcasts before TV.

The internet, to be fair, is a good and rapid source for all kinds of spiritual knowledge for those who know how to search.

But yes for churches who's style of worship is bible study physical attendance can easily be sitting in front of a computer screen and some form of support for a church ministry(ies) and/or some form of individual charity.

The generations that have been thought to use internet tools to learn by, and to fellowship with, can target their missions and fellowship all over the world. They can justify their worth by the number of ministry followers, campuses, the magnitude of the outreach and for the lord's blessing of an increase in membership and sometimes for just the amount of youtube likes.

Have you ever considered that for many of the new generation today that can do excellent research via the internet that they find mainline churches to be viewed as cults by assemblies that are viewed by mainline churches to be cults? And so all of Christianity is becomes a cult of cult salads?

The Plymouth Brethren for example viewed RCs and ACs as being in controlling cults and worse. They never saw themselves as a cult and still not even in the many forms of worship they present as today or to this day! Funny how that works.

 

[brutally honest]