How long is a Creation day?

[NE GA Pappy]

Interesting....this debate comes back up.

I'll ask the same question I always do....How old was Adam when he died? If his days/years were the same as the rest of the OT folks in Genesis 5, would it prove that the days of the creation account were the same?

It's amazing how people will say they believe in an infinite omnipotent God and then try and handicap His omnipotent powers to explain that which liberal science says is true but can't prove.

the only reason people don't accept a literal 24 hour creation day is because of the attempt to make creation fit in somehow with the evolutionist eons of time story.

It is amazing to me what is written in the old testament about science, and each time a fact is written, we have been able to prove it. Did you know that David wrote about the earth being a sphere, and hanging on nothing? Or that in Psalms 8, David wrote about there being paths in the seas, and because of that, Matthew Maury studied the seas and found the currents that enabled shipping to be much more efficient. We didn't understand these shipping lanes until the 1840's, yet David wrote about them almost 4000 years ago.

The bible speaks of the great fountains of the deep being broken apart and a world wide flood. When I was studying science in high school, the train of thought was that the center of the earth was a huge burning ball of magma. Now there is a sincere theory that says the center of the earth is filled with water and it recycles to refresh the surface supply that we use.

I wish that people would approach Genesis with an open mind and read it for what it says. You might not believe it, but if you study it for a bit, you will have to admit that the writer (Moses, not some lady who wrote poetry) meant for it to be interpreted that everything that was created came about in 6 literal, natural, sunset to sunset days. Not some convoluted one thousand year days, or days we can't know the length.

and for what it is worth... the Jewish sages agree that it was Moses who wrote the first 5 books of the bible. That he wrote 13 perfect, uncorrected copies of those 5 books in a literal 24 hour period, by his own hand, after he came down from Mount Sinai having been in God's presence for 40 days and 40 nights. A copy of each was given to each of the tribes, and one copy went into the Ark of the Covenant.

 

[Spineyman]

OK guys, I'll throw my 2 cents in here.

The first TWO creation stories in Genesis are holy, and wholly, poetry. In ancient Hebrew (as written and spoken post Babylon and before the Roman occupation) both stories follow a build up of cadence with one additional beat per line, then reverses the cadence with one less beat per line. Both creation stories (the first Genesis 1,1 through 2,3 and the second Genesis 2, 4B through 2, 25) tell of the origin of humanity, but in very different ways. The first creation story is a "stand alone" complete in itself. The second story is just the first verse of a very long opera.

The second version of creation actually segues into the "Garden" and humanity's almost immediate fall from grace. Consider the garden as verse two of the second song of our creation. More verses follow, reciting the important stories of the people, and key names from the early generations. It is a long and "wandering" opera, beautiful, tearful, heartrending. A careful reader might even think that the first creation story, and it's "seven days" was something different placed in front of the "real" story of Genesis. And that careful reader might be right. I am not going to address the second story, just the first.

The first story of creation, very determinedly cites the cosmic history of all of creation. Note that the story dates to at least 1,200 BC (perhaps earlier) and there is no evidence of any modern cosmology (outside of this story) in that epoch of human history, yet the sequence of events described in Genesis 1 corresponds to our "modern" understanding of developmental sciences. The Big Bang vs. "a formless void" and "a wind from God swept over," culminating with God expressing, "Let there be light." From the Bang, to coalescing matter into planetary bodies, from the first organic life, to plants and animals, to a final development of sentient life, the "modern" theory has a corresponding reference (poetic license allowed), asserted IN proper modern order, in the first Genesis story.

How does a primitive people with an understanding of their world that is literally flat - having a physical underworld and some kind of "plumbing" to get the water back up to the "dome" of the sky so it can rain again - manage to get the cosmology in the right order? The answer to that question is much more important to our understanding of God, than putting a stopwatch on day three!

The answer to, "How long is a creation day?" is only relevant in relation to asking how our primitive ancestors knew the truth about the creation of the universe.

The very human people who wrote the many pieces that became the Bible, (and some think that the composers of both creation stories were women in David's or Solomon's court) were all trying to tell about humanity's relationship with God, about God's steadfast love, about human failings, and about the fact that for everything we do wrong - God has the faith in us to help us make it right. The first creation story is NOT about ticks of a clock, or days as we know them. The story is about how we came to be, WHO we came to be, and Who's we came to be.

As a tiny but very real point of order, the "day" was shorter (by a very tiny bit) 3,000 years ago, and even shorter 6,000 years ago. Some very qualified cosmologists could even explain all the physics involved, but the spin of the Earth is slowing down and days are now longer than they used to be. That means for anyone who wants to argue God took just one day to complete each of the tasks of the six "days" - I have to ask, How long was that day?

Personally, I am very comfortable with the understanding that faulty humans, inspired by a perfect Creator, wrote, edited, redacted, rewrote, assembled, translated, re-translated, and printed the Bible. I do not see any conflict between "inspired" but faulty - and perfect Biblical Truth. Poetry does not attempt to dictate details of history, but it can sometimes MUCH more effectively relay Truth. The inspired word is truth told to your heart and soul.

Please, do not get hung up on whether the Hebrew word for the passing of time, a word often used to define a day but sometimes used to describe an era, was used as a literal sunset to sunset "day" or something else. That is NOT what God is saying to your soul.

Your entire line of thinking is not Biblical or backed by scripture.


2 Timothy 3:16-17

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

2 Peter 1:21

21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
Because you are trying to input mans emotions it will not hold water. Let God be true and every man a liar. Genesis is actual History, not stories and allegories.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Why is the first creation account performed by Elohim and the second creation account performed by Yahweh?

 

[NE GA Pappy]

Genesis 1:1 references Elohim, and Genesis 2:4 reference Yahweh. they had a bunch of different names for God, because their language is much more descriptive than ours.

Just as we say love, and have 42 (not really, but a lot) of meanings for that word, they have lots of names that describe an attribute of the thing they are speaking.

Elohim is a name that is interpreted as God... where Yahweh(if that is the correct spelling, we don't really know) means Lord or Master... it shows omnipotence.

The words are used just to describe a different facet of Gods character

 

[Artfuldodger]

Genesis 1:1 references Elohim, and Genesis 2:4 reference Yahweh. they had a bunch of different names for God, because their language is much more descriptive than ours.

Just as we say love, and have 42 (not really, but a lot) of meanings for that word, they have lots of names that describe an attribute of the thing they are speaking.

Elohim is a name that is interpreted as God... where Yahweh(if that is the correct spelling, we don't really know) means Lord or Master... it shows omnipotence.

The words are used just to describe a different facet of Gods character

Then you don't buy into the first one being creation of the whole world and the second one being Israel?

You don't see Romans 1 as pertaining to Israel. Considering that they "knew God by his creation?
Many Jews consider the 2nd creation as Israel.

They exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

Psalms 106:19-21
They made a calf in Horeb And worshiped a molten image. 20Thus they exchanged their glory For the image of an ox that eats grass. 21They forgot God their Savior, Who had done great things in Egypt.

Similar accounts or the same account? I'm wondering how one could "exchange" the worship of God for animal images if they never "new" God?
"they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind."

This doesn't appear to be random Eskimos or Congo villagers.

 

[1gr8bldr]

I believe God created everything in the 7 days "in word", he spoke everything into existence. Even 1gr8bldr was created in word during this time but had not reached fulfillment or come to pass until 53 years ago. I don't think God creates as he goes along. Interesting thread, not that I feel the need to figure it out as 24 hours or not... but well laid out with very good supporting scripture. Good job Art

 

[Spineyman]

Then you don't buy into the first one being creation of the whole world and the second one being Israel?

You don't see Romans 1 as pertaining to Israel. Considering that they "knew God by his creation?
Many Jews consider the 2nd creation as Israel.

They exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

Psalms 106:19-21
They made a calf in Horeb And worshiped a molten image. 20Thus they exchanged their glory For the image of an ox that eats grass. 21They forgot God their Savior, Who had done great things in Egypt.

Similar accounts or the same account? I'm wondering how one could "exchange" the worship of God for animal images if they never "new" God?
"they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind."

This doesn't appear to be random Eskimos or Congo villagers.

No sir I sure do not. Genesis is recorded by God as to His creation. Thus it says In the beginning God! Israel didn't even come about for a long time after that. You have 1656 years just to the flood of Noah's day.

1. From Adam to Noah entering the ark = 1656 years from creation
2. After the flood, Noah lived for 350 years = 2006 years from creation
3. From Death of Noah to the Birth of Isaac 43 years = 2049 years from creation
4. From Birth of Isaac to the death of Joseph is 260 years = 2309 years from creation. So no I do not believe that is referring to Israel.

 

[jrickman]

To save time I'll just copy/paste this from one of my earlier posts on this topic...

2 things...

1. A wise man once said to me, "Son, the Bible doesn't say that it contains everything there IS to know about creation. It simply contains everything you NEED to know about God. He gave you a brain for the rest."

2. When people talk about reconciling modern science with the story of the creation from Genesis, they most often are talking about geology and biology, which are far from settled science, and our knowledge and understanding of them evolve with the generations. What is often mysteriously overlooked when discussing the 6 day literal vs. interpreted timeline is the science of physics. Do some research on the concept of time dilation from the theory of relativity. Time dilation has been demonstrated and proven. Put simply, time dilation is the difference in time as observed from 2 points caused by either a difference in velocity of motion or proximity to a large gravitational field.

For the purpose of this post, let's focus on some known examples. Gravity literally slows down the passage of time, as measured by our methods. Clocks on many satellites run faster than clocks on the ground, for instance. This is due to their proximity to the earth. Meanwhile, clocks on the space shuttle have been shown to run faster due to its orbital speed. Now for a moment, lets imagine the potential gravitational force of either God Himself, or any physical body He is present on, somewhere way out there in space. For the skeptics, let's just imagine a grey bearded old man standing on a planet several thousand light years away that is many times larger than earth. It is entirely plausible that a day in that location is equivalent to 1000 years here on Earth, as referenced in the New Testament. Add in the potential difference in velocity between the two objects and this can increase further. Bottom line, time is not a universal constant. It is different based on where you're standing and where you're going.

There is much we do not understand about creation and personally I believe that those who try to box God in, whether by insisting on a literal 6 day timeline and thus supposing that God is somehow bound by the law of physics, as well as those who adamantly refute the 6 day timeline, based on some conclusions literally drawn from the dirt, are all failing to acknowledge the simple reality that God has no obligation to break things down for us kindergarten style, or to prove Himself to us. The pride and arrogance of man is on full display on both sides of this argument, among believers as well as skeptics.

 

[marketgunner]

Jesus created all things.

Creation and redemption are through Jesus

 

[Spineyman]

To save time I'll just copy/paste this from one of my earlier posts on this topic...

2 things...

1. A wise man once said to me, "Son, the Bible doesn't say that it contains everything there IS to know about creation. It simply contains everything you NEED to know about God. He gave you a brain for the rest."

2. When people talk about reconciling modern science with the story of the creation from Genesis, they most often are talking about geology and biology, which are far from settled science, and our knowledge and understanding of them evolve with the generations. What is often mysteriously overlooked when discussing the 6 day literal vs. interpreted timeline is the science of physics. Do some research on the concept of time dilation from the theory of relativity. Time dilation has been demonstrated and proven. Put simply, time dilation is the difference in time as observed from 2 points caused by either a difference in velocity of motion or proximity to a large gravitational field.

For the purpose of this post, let's focus on some known examples. Gravity literally slows down the passage of time, as measured by our methods. Clocks on many satellites run faster than clocks on the ground, for instance. This is due to their proximity to the earth. Meanwhile, clocks on the space shuttle have been shown to run faster due to its orbital speed. Now for a moment, lets imagine the potential gravitational force of either God Himself, or any physical body He is present on, somewhere way out there in space. For the skeptics, let's just imagine a grey bearded old man standing on a planet several thousand light years away that is many times larger than earth. It is entirely plausible that a day in that location is equivalent to 1000 years here on Earth, as referenced in the New Testament. Add in the potential difference in velocity between the two objects and this can increase further. Bottom line, time is not a universal constant. It is different based on where you're standing and where you're going.

There is much we do not understand about creation and personally I believe that those who try to box God in, whether by insisting on a literal 6 day timeline and thus supposing that God is somehow bound by the law of physics, as well as those who adamantly refute the 6 day timeline, based on some conclusions literally drawn from the dirt, are all failing to acknowledge the simple reality that God has no obligation to break things down for us kindergarten style, or to prove Himself to us. The pride and arrogance of man is on full display on both sides of this argument, among believers as well as skeptics.

The reason the Creation account really matters is because if it were long periods of time then death would have entered in before God told Adam and Eve, that if you eat of this fruit which is the only commandment they had to obey, then they would surely die. They ate and the rest is His tory! Long periods of time did not happen, either you can take God at His Word or you can't . You can not have it both ways. I guess I am simple enough to believe that God said what He meant and meant what He said! His Creation is the example for all mankind. 6 days shall you labor and do all your work, but the 7th is the Sabboth of the Lord. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabboth day and hallowed it. Which means made it Holy!

 

[Artfuldodger]

The reason the Creation account really matters is because if it were long periods of time then death would have entered in before God told Adam and Eve, that if you eat of this fruit which is the only commandment they had to obey, then they would surely die. They ate and the rest is His tory! Long periods of time did not happen, either you can take God at His Word or you can't . You can not have it both ways. I guess I am simple enough to believe that God said what He meant and meant what He said! His Creation is the example for all mankind. 6 days shall you labor and do all your work, but the 7th is the Sabboth of the Lord. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabboth day and hallowed it. Which means made it Holy!

Unless the Adamic Covenant was not for the whole earth.

 

[Spineyman]

Unless the Adamic Covenant was not for the whole earth.

I guarantee you it isn't for the whole earth. It is for the elect of God. If the Spirit of the Living God does not draw a person then they are without hope! The Bible tells us we are dead in our trespasses and sins and if God doesn't call you forth, then you will remain dead .

 

[RegularJoe]

Because I have not read every one of the above 52 replies I may be repeating a thought already stated and if so please forgive me for the duplication?
Today we measure a day by the earth's turning on its axis relative to the Sun.
During the 7 days of Creation the Sun was not in place till the 4th 'day.'
I have wondered for the longest time ~ how, therefore, were the first three days measured by today's method of measuring a day? How long was 'a day' those first three days :- )?
- Best of blessings wishes to all.

 

[Mako22]

Just like it says 1 day

 

[Artfuldodger]

Because I have not read every one of the above 52 replies I may be repeating a thought already stated and if so please forgive me for the duplication?
Today we measure a day by the earth's turning on its axis relative to the Sun.
During the 7 days of Creation the Sun was not in place till the 4th 'day.'
I have wondered for the longest time ~ how, therefore, were the first three days measured by today's method of measuring a day? How long was 'a day' those first three days :- )?
- Best of blessings wishes to all.

You bring up a good point. Also, where was the earth within the universe if made before the Sun? The light was being provided from God. Maybe he kept the earth revolving around his Spiritual being until the 4th day.

 

[marketgunner]

yom is only used as one day, or daylight, it is also the same word for "chronicles" of a king or" period of time," or longer in "Day of the Lord" as in God's judgement.

If God could have formed the universe in an instant , why did it take 6 days?

It was 6 yom,

 

[Artfuldodger]

yom is only used as one day, or daylight, it is also the same word for "chronicles" of a king or" period of time," or longer in "Day of the Lord" as in God's judgement.

If God could have formed the universe in an instant , why did it take 6 days?

It was 6 yom,

If God could have formed the universe in an instant , why did it take 6 yom?

 

[GeorgiaBob]

God did what God did. It appears to me that God may have, in the process of creation, created the "rules." Although we do not understand all the rules, the ones we have identified so far, seem to be very consistent. Rules like quantum physics, chemistry (both organic and inorganic) and gravity all seem to be very carefully designed and thorough. Perhaps, God took six identifiable and distinct epochs in creating this universe because God wanted to create a complete, naturally flowing and consistent universe.

One point posters here seem to neglect. God is everlasting. Our Lord was here before there was a universe and God will be here when all of this is gone. Why would God be in the least bit be concerned in how long it took to create? Perhaps God has identified the ages (epochs, periods, days) of Creation as a tool for us, to help us find a closer relationship with God, the one God, the God who IS the creation, who IS the Creator, who is Eternally God.

(And maybe, like Adam, and so many of us since, we have found a way to miss the point - seeking to define the chronological instead of appreciate the divine.)

 

[Artfuldodger]

God did what God did. It appears to me that God may have, in the process of creation, created the "rules." Although we do not understand all the rules, the ones we have identified so far, seem to be very consistent. Rules like quantum physics, chemistry (both organic and inorganic) and gravity all seem to be very carefully designed and thorough. Perhaps, God took six identifiable and distinct epochs in creating this universe because God wanted to create a complete, naturally flowing and consistent universe.

One point posters here seem to neglect. God is everlasting. Our Lord was here before there was a universe and God will be here when all of this is gone. Why would God be in the least bit be concerned in how long it took to create? Perhaps God has identified the ages (epochs, periods, days) of Creation as a tool for us, to help us find a closer relationship with God, the one God, the God who IS the creation, who IS the Creator, who is Eternally God.

(And maybe, like Adam, and so many of us since, we have found a way to miss the point - seeking to define the chronological instead of appreciate the divine.)

Amen! The Great Architect creating using science.

 

[NE GA Pappy]

Amen! The Great Architect created science.

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