I couldn't help it

[ambush80]

And exponentially more are spoken and not recorded in writing.

And they're all 100% historically correct without ANY embellishment.

 

[ambush80]

What instruction of Jesus Christ or exhortation to obedience to Him by the writers of the New Testament do any find jail-worthy?

Or so "off the wall" as need, in their opinion...tempering?
What do you see, if in your knowing, it has been made known to you...Jesus Christ is indeed a dangerous man. To what, to whom?

Jesus followed the Law. You want to be like Jesus. Go burn some witches.

No? Me neither.

 

[Miguel Cervantes]

Jesus followed the Law. You want to be like Jesus. Go burn some witches.

No? Me neither.

Jesus did not follow the law to the letter, that is one of the reasons the Pharisee's were so ill with him.

 

[WaltL1]

I understand what you are asking, and it's a very legitimate question.
One of us (me or SFD) is wrong about the method of the belief, as in whether it's passive or active. I concede that. But at the end of the day, whether we understand how we believed accurately or not, it doesn't negate the fact that we both believe it. See one is of the mind, and one is of the Spirit. The one that's of the Spirit is the essential one.

One of us (me or SFD) is wrong

Or maybe both.
Everybody on this forum may be wrong.

But at the end of the day, whether we understand how we believed accurately or not, it doesn't negate the fact that we both believe it

I agree. Its a fact you both believe Jesus is the Son of God.
But you are and and and using it as though it negates the huge implications -

Originally Posted by welderguy
I see what you are saying, but here's why it is ultimately harmless

yip.

If you are trying to show solidarity in front of us (A/As), we see through it.
Maybe you focus on being "brothers" to avoid the huge implications in your different beliefs.
Maybe you secretly think the other is full of carp.
I don't know, but the "Yeah but we both believe Jesus is the Son of God" thing doesn't hold a lot of weight......

 

[ambush80]

Jesus did not follow the law to the letter, that is one of the reasons the Pharisee's were so ill with him.

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (NIV, Matthew 5:17–18)"

So, I've read what some people think this means and many people say many different things. Then it occurred to me that I'm not supposed to rely on man's understanding. I guess It can't be understood.

P.S. do you like the red letters?

 

[ambush80]

Or maybe both.
Everybody on this forum may be wrong.

I agree. Its a fact you both believe Jesus is the Son of God.
But you are and and and using it as though it negates the huge implications -


If you are trying to show solidarity in front of us (A/As), we see through it.
Maybe you focus on being "brothers" to avoid the huge implications in your different beliefs.
Maybe you secretly think the other is full of carp.
I don't know, but the "Yeah but we both believe Jesus is the Son of God" thing doesn't hold a lot of weight......

It's just tribalism. They both think the Braves are the best team ever. They disagree on who was their best pitcher, Glavine or Smolts.

 

[Miguel Cervantes]

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (NIV, Matthew 5:17–18)"

So, I've read what some people think this means and many people say many different things. Then it occurred to me that I'm not supposed to rely on man's understanding. I guess It can't be understood.

P.S. do you like the red letters?

Nothing in that statement implies that Jesus "followed" the law, regardless of what color you put them in.

It does however state what he did with / for the law by his eventual sacrifice / crucifixion.

The greek word used in scripture that was translated to "fulfill" in the KJV that most mis-interpret is transliterated to Pleroo (plhrovw) and means;

to render full, i.e. to complete
to fill to the top: so that nothing shall be wanting to full measure, fill to the brim
to consummate: a number
to make complete in every particular, to render perfect
to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out

Some contest this meaning by other less quantifiable definitions, but if one looks at the root word for Pleroo, which is Pleres (plhvrhß) then its intent becomes more clear;

full, i.e. filled up (as opposed to empty)
of hollow vessels
of a surface, covered in every part
of the soul, thoroughly permeated with
full, i.e. complete
lacking nothing, perfect

It is sad that many Christians who want to take one of the many interpretations of the Bible as fact don't bother to go back to the root writings to learn exact meanings for the teachings. Many of them choose to instead judge other Christians for making up their own interpretations.

Something about a plank and a splinter comes to mind here. Not to mention the many verses in both the OT and NT about judgement.

You can find the original context of these writings in the Interlinear Bible transliterations from Greek and Hebrew by merely typing in the scripture that may be taken out of context for a little more clarity.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/interlinear-bible/passage/?q=matthew+5&t=kjv

I learned a long time ago not to rely on one mans interpretation of the original text, especially when he was applying a judgement of others to it.

 

[Israel]

Jesus followed the Law. You want to be like Jesus. Go burn some witches.

No? Me neither.

When they heard this, they began to go away one by one, beginning with the older ones, until only Jesus was left, with the woman standing there. Then Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are your accusers? Has no one condemned you?” “No one, Lord.” she answered. “Neither do I condemn you.” Jesus declared. “Now go and sin no more.”…


If you're looking for a way to condemn, (or revile, mock, scorn)...your time is always ready, always just...there...to do. It's always handy...there's always someone 'darker', dumber, more hypocritical, unkind superstitious, or proud...(pick from the panoply of error)...and it may well be...you're entirely right...that one is "not as intelligent" or honest, or brave, or noble, or whatever metric you choose to judge. Yep...a man can be all right...and still be all wrong. He'll see what he's made of when that judgment swings round his way.

Me? I'm content with what Jesus shows...in that judgment.

 

[bullethead]

Without writings any historical knowledge is all a myth.

Sometimes, yes.
Archeology sometimes makes up for what is not written.

 

[bullethead]

Without writings any historical knowledge is all a myth.

Welder and SFD talk about having no need for writings as god touches an individuals heart or has chosen who will believe long before they are even born.

How would either of them know about Jesus if not for the writings and especially where they were born?

Why doesn't people in other cultures just automatically "know" Jesus?

 

[ambush80]

When they heard this, they began to go away one by one, beginning with the older ones, until only Jesus was left, with the woman standing there. Then Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are your accusers? Has no one condemned you?” “No one, Lord.” she answered. “Neither do I condemn you.” Jesus declared. “Now go and sin no more.”…


If you're looking for a way to condemn, (or revile, mock, scorn)...your time is always ready, always just...there...to do. It's always handy...there's always someone 'darker', dumber, more hypocritical, unkind superstitious, or proud...(pick from the panoply of error)...and it may well be...you're entirely right...that one is "not as intelligent" or honest, or brave, or noble, or whatever metric you choose to judge. Yep...a man can be all right...and still be all wrong. He'll see what he's made of when that judgment swings round his way.

Me? I'm content with what Jesus shows...in that judgment.

I'm only interested in what belief in "judgement" does to people here and now. Like I said before, most people apply the lie in such a way that it makes them more tolerable members of society, but not always.

 

[Miguel Cervantes]

Welder and SFD talk about having no need for writings as god touches an individuals heart or has chosen who will believe long before they are even born.

How would either of them know about Jesus if not for the writings and especially where they were born?

Why doesn't people in other cultures just automatically "know" Jesus?

Who has stated they would "know about Jesus"? by what God had put in their hearts?

http://forum.gon.com/showpost.php?p=10775817&postcount=79

 

[NCHillbilly]

Welder and SFD talk about having no need for writings as god touches an individuals heart or has chosen who will believe long before they are even born.

How would either of them know about Jesus if not for the writings and especially where they were born?

Why doesn't people in other cultures just automatically "know" Jesus?

Because they automatically know Buddha or Vishnu or Allah or Gorg, the Volcano God. And believe in those just as fervently.

 

[Artfuldodger]

I think SFD believes in knowing from hearing and Welder believes in knowing from a direct call from God.

Therefore in one belief only the folks other Christians have witnessed to know and the other way God himself beat us there.

 

[ambush80]

Because they automatically know Buddha or Vishnu or Allah or Gorg, the Volcano God. And believe in those just as fervently.

God has put himself in their hearts.

I actually believe this in a sense. All peoples have come up with an idea of God. It seems to be important.

 

[ambush80]

I think SFD believes in knowing from hearing and Welder believes in knowing from a direct call from God.

Therefore in one belief only the folks other Christians have witnessed to know and the other way God himself beat us there.

An omniscient being doesn't "beat anybody there".

 

[Israel]

I'm only interested in what belief in "judgement" does to people here and now. Like I said before, most people apply the lie in such a way that it makes them more tolerable members of society, but not always.

Yeah. That woman was very glad in her "here and now" for Jesus judgment. Me too, in mine.

 

[Miguel Cervantes]

Yeah. That woman was very glad in her "here and now" for Jesus judgment. Me too, in mine.

And it should be noted that his "judgement" was against the OT law and those that were carrying it out.

 

[ambush80]

Yeah. That woman was very glad in her "here and now" for Jesus judgment. Me too, in mine.

I'm glad you consider yourself "judged" if you wouldn't behave well otherwise.

 

[WaltL1]

Welder and SFD talk about having no need for writings as god touches an individuals heart or has chosen who will believe long before they are even born.

How would either of them know about Jesus if not for the writings and especially where they were born?

Why doesn't people in other cultures just automatically "know" Jesus?

According to Welder they are able to, God just hasn't pressed the ON button yet -

This is why unborn babies, secluded islanders, mentally handicapped, deaf, blind, etc, etc, are still very able to "know" Jesus.