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Is Jesus the only way?
- Thread starter Artfuldodger
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Artfuldodger
Senior Member
Romans 5:18-19
18Therefore, just as one trespass brought condemnation for all men, so also one act of righteousness brought justification and life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.…
18Therefore, just as one trespass brought condemnation for all men, so also one act of righteousness brought justification and life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.…
It is my most heartfelt conviction that God so loved the world, meaning all the world, that he gave his only son, so that whosoever believeth in him, meaning absolutely anyone who would accept this gift, would not perish but have everlasting life.
I can most assuredly tell you that God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy. Beyond that, I don't know.[/QUOTE]
When you say this, you need to know that the thought of the author wasn't that God will have mercy on some but not on others. The thought was amazement that God would have such amazing mercy simply because of his nature. It was more like "WOW, what an amazing God who will have mercy on whom he will have mercy, even though I can't comprehend why or how he can!"
Romans 9:
10 And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; 11 for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, 12 it was said to her, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 Just as it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
10 And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; 11 for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, 12 it was said to her, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 Just as it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
Romans 11:30-33
30Just as you who formerly disobeyed God have now received mercy through their disobedience, 31so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you. 32For God has consigned all men to disobedience, so that He may have mercy on them all.33 Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable His judgments, and untraceable His ways!
30Just as you who formerly disobeyed God have now received mercy through their disobedience, 31so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you. 32For God has consigned all men to disobedience, so that He may have mercy on them all.33 Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable His judgments, and untraceable His ways!
Will Galen
Member
Yes. The apostle Peter, filled with holy spirit, told the Jewish rulers concerning Christ Jesus, (Acts 4:12) “Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.”
However, down though history some have never heard of Jesus, so of course, they couldn’t know Jesus died for their sins. What about such people?
Jesus speaking of himself says at;
(John 5:28-29) (NWT) 28Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.
Note that it is . . . all those in the “memorial tombs” [Greek “mnemeiois”] that Jesus’ resurrects. You should know that most Bible translations leave out the word memorial in this verse and just translate it, “tombs” or “graves,” which is okay, but makes the verse harder to understand because memorial is an important distinction. It shows that not everyone will be resurrected, only those in the memorial tombs, meaning in God’s memory.
To show that the word ‘memorial’ is in the original Greek language lets go to John 5:28 in the Greek interlinear at http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Greek_Index.htm
Interlinear Bibles have the same text in various languages set in alternate lines. The one above is a Greek-English interlinear.
John 5:28 in the original Greek language has 17 words that say, “Me - thaumazet - touto - hoti - erchetri - hora - en -he - pantes - hoi - en - tois - mnemeiois - akousontai - tes - phones - autou - . . .”
Underneath the Greek Language is the English translation. It reads; “No - [be-marveling-at] - this - that - [is-coming] - hour - in - which - all - [the-ones] - in - the - [memorial-vaults] - [shall-be-hearing] - [of-the] - sound - [of-him]”
Note that the 13th word in Greek is “mnemeiois” and in English means “memorial vaults.” Memorial in English has to do with preserving the memory of a person or thing.
So when Jesus said all those in the memorial tombs would come out, he didn’t mean everyone that ever lived would come out, just all those preserved in God’s memory. Some people are not going to be resurrected because of what they have done. For example, Adam and Eve, Cain.
Now let’s read the 2nd half of John 5:29 out of GOD'S WORD® Translation of the Bible, because it seems to me easier to understand.
It says, “Those who have done good will come back to life and live. But those who have done evil will come back to life and will be judged.”
Why will their come back to life and then be judged?
Romans 6:7,23 says, 7"For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin.” “23 The wages sin pays is death.”
When Jesus resurrects people, it means they have been acquitted from their prior sins. Thus, those who have done good and been resurrected would include, Noah, Moses, Abraham, the prophets, etc.
Of course, they will have never heard of Jesus, so they will have to put faith in Jesus, but that should prove no problem for them.
Those who come back to life but have done evil will also include all those who had never heard of Christ Jesus, etc. They will come back to life and be judged on what they do now that they are alive again.
It’s during Jesus’ 1,000-year reign that the resurrection takes place. So they will be judged by what they do during his reign. If they do good things and put faith in Jesus they will continue to live. If they continue doing bad, sometime during Jesus’ reign it will be decided they are incorrigible and be put to death.
So to answer your questions, “Is Jesus the only way to attain salvation?” Meaning one must believe Jesus died for their sins. The answer is yes, for everyone.
Good Day!
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
If you are good, you will live forever, if you are bad, you die when you die.
Good meaning your sins have been atoned.
Good meaning your sins have been atoned.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
Hey Will Galen, what about the sinners that have died before ya'll reached them? Is their blood on your hands? Not trying to be harsh, just trying to understand the JW's views on those ya'll or us didn't reach.
Will Galen
Member
Your question doesn't really make sense to me. Why should someone's blood be on my hands if they died before I reached them? That's like blaming the death of someone on an ambulance crew because they died before the ambulance arrived.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
Not you personally but before you. The true children of God who were alive before you?
Is salvation dependent upon men reaching the lost?
Is salvation dependent upon men reaching the lost?
Will Galen
Member
I'm not sure we are on the same page. I think you might be simplifying things too much.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
It's very simple. Without salvation one will surely die. Salvation is from this death.
StriperAddict
Senior Member
Atonement means covering, not removal. Like what the children of Israel did year after year at the temple with the bulls and goats and stuff. A picture of the true to come.
Funny how many believers don't believe their sins are removed in Christ; they'll hit the communion alter and act like Christ is dying for their current floundering faith and soulish condition all over again. The bread and the wine, if it's anything, is a celebration of a heart made new, of our human spirit in communion with His spirit, of the new creation He did with no act of our own.
That's salvation.
Heb 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.
Heb 10:18 Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin. (it is finished!)
gordon 2
Senior Member
Jesus has always been the only way, even before Christianity, and before the Hebrews were brought out of captivity, and long before that....
I take it that Jesus is not only the Savoir of the Gentiles, but that he ever was the agent of God's grace, with Adam and Eve and after them....
Jesus is not only the son of Mary, and a Gallilean, he is God.
I take it that Jesus is not only the Savoir of the Gentiles, but that he ever was the agent of God's grace, with Adam and Eve and after them....
Jesus is not only the son of Mary, and a Gallilean, he is God.
tell sackett
Senior Member
gordon 2
Senior Member
I have never met Christians who believe as you state. I have heard your statement many times as a stereo type by people who have never thought of what they are saying, but to follow another's misunderstanding or that they carry an old bromide as if it was devine truth, unaware.
The communion alter might be hit, but I have never experienced it in the motives of others or mine as you say-- unless they were ignorant and naive of the sacrifice Jesus made as the Lamb-- and I'll admit some do exist.
Personally part of my Lord's sacrifice is cause for feast in worship, where a portion is shared with the poor in charity and thus I am fed by God in reality as when the meats of the sacrificial lambs and beasts were given to the poor, but also spiritual food in God sharing his heart, his love, his example of justice in the Charity of his Son, into my heart as scripture demands of the Savoir's ministry to me and to the world.
There is no issue for me or anyone else I know that Jesus dies for my sins again and again. He died once and that was enough. Jesus is the last lamb sacrifice and is not repeated, cannot be repeated, man having need of only it. This is an issue with the ignorant and with those who have doubt in God Himself--that He is who He says He is, and does as He says He does. God said I will feed you in your mouth and I will teach your hearts.
As for me, God puts his food in my mouth for real. And that food is himself as Jesus Lamb. I go to His feast in joy as being ever poor in spirit, meek before such Love as is God's. And though like others I might sin in a minute from now, I do not run to the alters to be born again, again. I died once. I live in Him. I feast on the food he provides me--real food. And I hope for the day when all mankind will know God's wisdom--real wisdom.
Sometimes we fight ourselves, part of us believing that another part of us doubts, but unwilling to limit this confrontation as within ourselves or to mask it entirely as not our personal conflict, we reflect it on some other entity as if it was surely there. But it is not!
It is said that Luther in his hiding place, in his famous exile post his declarations against Rome, was in conflict with the devil who appeared to him to such an extent that he shot his inkwell against this enemy's shadow and onto his cell's wall. It is said to still be visible today. And equally visible today is the putting-tossing forth of erroneous motives, erroneous, bromides by Christians on why Christians hit the alter.
God bless bros...
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Artfuldodger
Senior Member
I guess atone isn't the correct word. I'll go with removed.
Atonement is Old Testament.
Atonement is Old Testament.
The correct word for us is remission. It basically means,"to sin away" so removed is fine with me.
aj.hiner
Senior Member
Did all the people before jesus not go to heaven?
hobbs27
Senior Member
No. They went to Sheol/Hades to await the atonement.
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