Mountain Deer Densities

[jbogg]

Let’s do Pinelog!




This^^^ it should be open season, no limit bear hog coyote bobcat, hunting for a full year or three with at least another year of NO doe days.

No limits and open seasons? No thanks. I enjoy hunting bear, and it would be easy to wipe them out in the spring and summer.

 

[Sautee Ridgerunner]

Let’s do Pinelog!




This^^^ it should be open season, no limit bear hog coyote bobcat, hunting for a full year or three with at least another year of NO doe days.

Yeah...... no

 

[Sautee Ridgerunner]

I really cant believe the thought processes I see on here. We have multiple people saying they regularly find mtn laurel in deer stomach’s and then say predator control is the answer to the deer number issue. Good lord

 

[Resica]

I really cant believe the thought processes I see on here. We have multiple people saying they regularly find mtn laurel in deer stomach’s and then say predator control is the answer to the deer number issue. Good lord

Can't fix stupid Sautee.

 

[Sautee Ridgerunner]

It’s not stupid, it’s just a lack of understanding. We can look to places like PA, ID, SE Alaska, NJ, VA, FL, etc to see that massive deer populations can coexist with A LOT of black bears. It’s pretty common honestly. What they all have in common is habitat.

What nobody has ever seen is that shooting our two main predators (coyotes and then bears) does anything. It just doesnt work. If killing bears worked, NC would have piles of deer. If killing coyotes worked, well, I would urge anyone living in that fantasy world to contact Dr Michael Chamberlain at UGA and see his results.

These issues are multi faceted and the habitat is the key to all of it.

 

[Resica]

It’s not stupid, it’s just a lack of understanding. We can look to places like PA, ID, SE Alaska, NJ, VA, FL, etc to see that massive deer populations can coexist with A LOT of black bears. It’s pretty common honestly. What they all have in common is habitat.

What nobody has ever seen is that shooting our two main predators (coyotes and then bears) does anything. It just doesnt work. If killing bears worked, NC would have piles of deer. If killing coyotes worked, well, I would urge anyone living in that fantasy world to contact Dr Michael Chamberlain at UGA and see his results.

These issues are multi faceted and the habitat is the key to all of it.

Killing coyotes doesn't work for sure. Think they say we kill 40,000 yotes a year. Kill about 4,000 bears a year out of 20,000. They co exist. They have been cutting quite a bit up here, still need to cut more.

 

[bfriendly]

I really cant believe the thought processes I see on here. We have multiple people saying they regularly find mtn laurel in deer stomach’s and then say predator control is the answer to the deer number issue. Good lord

If it seems reasonable and Charlie says so I buy it. I’d bet more fawns get killed and eaten, than just drop dead because they can’t find food, water or a place to sleep. Sure they coexist, but that’d be with balanced numbers. Y’all saying the amount of predators and game is balanced in the NGA mountains? Then why all the fuss to begin with?

 

[bfriendly]

I really cant believe the thought processes I see on here. We have multiple people saying they regularly find mtn laurel in deer stomach’s and then say predator control is the answer to the deer number issue. Good lord

Or maybe I missed your point. Are you saying we need to destroy the mtn laurels? I doubt that’s what’s killing all these deer

 

[Resica]

If it seems reasonable and Charlie says so I buy it. I’d bet more fawns get killed and eaten, than just drop dead because they can’t find food, water or a place to sleep. Sure they coexist, but that’d be with balanced numbers. Y’all saying the amount of predators and game is balanced in the NGA mountains? Then why all the fuss to begin with?

What is the percentage of fawns deaths by predation, disease, human, etc..?

 

[C.Killmaster]

If it seems reasonable and Charlie says so I buy it. I’d bet more fawns get killed and eaten, than just drop dead because they can’t find food, water or a place to sleep. Sure they coexist, but that’d be with balanced numbers. Y’all saying the amount of predators and game is balanced in the NGA mountains? Then why all the fuss to begin with?

Predation risk isn't as simple as the number of predators versus the number of prey. While the numbers do matter, there are a lot of moving parts to predator-prey interactions. With omnivorous predators like coyotes and bears, alternate food items can impact predation. Quality of fawning cover can impact predation, but also the proximity of good fawning cover to good food sources for the does. Those adult does have to constantly travel back and forth from food sources to nurse their fawns, the greater the distance can impact both predation risk and abandonment. Not only are a big number of fawns getting killed by coyotes and bears, but many are being abandoned. All of these these things are related to habitat quality.

 

[C.Killmaster]

Or maybe I missed your point. Are you saying we need to destroy the mtn laurels? I doubt that’s what’s killing all these deer

Mountain laurel is a very low quality food item, deer won't eat a lot of it unless there's not much else that's better.

 

[C.Killmaster]

What is the percentage of fawns deaths by predation, disease, human, etc..?

Based on our recent project, the following are the percentage of fawn deaths that were attributed to the respective cause:

80% predation
20% natural causes (abandonment, disease, defects)

Predation was attributed to coyotes (41%), bears (35%), bobcats (12%), and dogs (12%)

 

[Resica]

Based on our recent project, the following are the percentage of fawn deaths that were attributed to the respective cause:

80% predation
20% natural causes (abandonment, disease, defects)

Predation was attributed to coyotes (41%), bears (35%), bobcats (12%), and dogs (12%)

Thank you. What percentage of fawns live to see the new year?

 

[ddd-shooter]

I really cant believe the thought processes I see on here. We have multiple people saying they regularly find mtn laurel in deer stomach’s and then say predator control is the answer to the deer number issue. Good lord

Yes, but also remember many of the metrics by which we judge a deers health have increased as the population crashed. So the habitat is more of a cover and fawning issue than strictly a nutritional one, although I really think we need a lot more nutrition, especially if the herd hopes to rebound and have more mouths on the landscape.

 

[C.Killmaster]

Thank you. What percentage of fawns live to see the new year?

A little over 17%, terrible.

 

[Thunder Head]

I know one persons sightings dont mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things.

Out of a dozen or so does i havent seen a single fawn on NF this year. Only 2 yearlings.

 

[chrislibby88]

Just curious but how does everybody feel about a 1 buck limit on nf land? Still have 2 buck tags but only 1 can come from nf? Also instead of 2 bucks on the mtn wmas to go 1. I've noticed a lot more folks holding out for better quality bucks on nf land last several years. .most I've talked to support the idea. Most everyone I know that hunts nf these days are looking for a big buck.

I’m not in. Those that want it can voluntarily shoot one buck off nat forest. With the densities so low you have a much better chance of encountering an 3+ y/o in the mountains vs the rest of the state anyway. The average age in the chestatee December hunt is usually 3.5. Contrast that with a 1.5-2.5 average age on middle GA wma bucks. I kinda enjoy having a low density/low pressure chunk of the state to hunt. Both my brother and I have gotten our best bucks from north GA, and it’s not like we passed a million small bucks to get them, we just see more mature deer up north.
I don’t think the mountain WMAs need to swap anything up. I’m guessing less than 1% of hunters ever tag two bucks on those mountain check in hunts. Most folks go home after the drag one off a mountain anyway.
I just don’t see a one buck limit improving the overall deer quality or the hunting experience at all.

 

[ddd-shooter]

I know one persons sightings dont mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things.

Out of a dozen or so does i havent seen a single fawn on NF this year. Only 2 yearlings.

I’ve not seen many either!

 

[chrislibby88]

I’ve not seen many either!

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a 6 month old deer either. Usually old does and yearlings. Those yearlings were once fawns though, so some are making it.

 

[tree cutter 08]

Killing coyotes doesn't work for sure. Think they say we kill 40,000 yotes a year. Kill about 4,000 bears a year out of 20,000. They co exist. They have been cutting quite a bit up here, still need to cut more.

Our problem is timber cutting ain't happening or happened in years and very likely won't happen in the future enough to count. Heck some of the tracks that were approved for sale didn't even get a bid! It's not going to happen enough to help our situation out anytime in the near future. So that leaves the only other thing to do is manage predators or let it ride.