NIL questions/clarifications

bullgator

Senior Member
Apologies if this becomes a lengthy ramble of thoughts leading to questions. My disgust in what college football, the only sport I will sit and watch, is turning into had me trying to piece this NIL debacle together. So please help me understand it a correct me where I’m wrong.
As I understand it, NIL is payment to players for name, image, and likeness for services they provide off the football field driven by their accomplishments and popularity of being an on field player. As I understand it, these payments are provided by entities other that the universities themselves and are separate from the universities. As I understand it neither entity (the NIL collective or the university) has control of the other and operate independently of each other. Am I wrong so far?
If the above is accurate so far, then any NIL agreements between the the player and an NIL collective is between them alone and separate from any agreements made with the universities to attend the schools…….as I understand it? This would seem to me that the NIL collective owns the ‘player rights’ of an individual. Furthermore, it seems like the universities are offering education, coaching, lodging, meals, medical, tutoring, training facilities, transportation, and more without the benefits of any commitment to them from the players,……? At this point it seems as though the NIL collectives are much like unions. We all know that players can and do walk away from schools any time they want for any reason they want, so these “COMMITTED” theatrics are just attention getting shows with no substance to them.
So, if NIL collectives do or could operate much like unions, what if they decide to shop the players to other schools collectives. It wouldn’t take much imagination to see a few ways that could happen. A falling out with a school or a change in the leadership of the collective could have them go rogue and be in it for themselves. Also, what if a player isn’t panning out on the field, can an NIL collective ‘fire’ the player and stop paying them if they fall down the depth chart and their NIL loses value? Should the scholarships schools offer be rewritten to reflect the commitment between the school and the individual? It seems like the schools are only signing the student and the collectives are signing the player.
A couple final thoughts. This NIL stuff started with the argument that players were being taken advantage of due to the schools making money at the gates and the sales of merchandise associated with players. So, have the schools had to give up any profits from these income sources? Are the players really doing any NIL stuff equal to the amounts of money they receive? Is a 2nd team OG earning his?
Is NIL working?
 

ddgarcia

Mr Non-Libertaw Got To Be Done My Way
You are basically correct. The players "contract" is with a Sports Markerting Agent, who gets a percentage for representing the player. The SMA's sole concern is how much can I make for the SMA. As such, contracts with collectives are written in a manner that said player can walk away and sign with another at will with no penalty to player or SMA. I'm sure there are performance metrics written in as well to protect the collective should the player not perform as expected, see what's his name jumping ship from OSU to Texas a couple years ago when he wasn't guaranteed the starting spot. So it's the SMA that is the "union", not the collective.

Your contract thinking is spot on. The school signs the "student" while the SMA "owns" the player and "leases" him to the collective, and at any time should the player or SMA think school or collective is "mstreating" said property, they can pull their "commitment" and shop it elsewhere.

As for merchandise revenue, schools are now required to share that income with the player it "represents". Doesn't matter if your daddy played for UGA 30yrs ago and happened to wear #19 and you're buying "hjs" jersey, Brock Bowers now gets a cut, and as predicted, prices have risen SIGNIFICANTLY to reflect this. I don't think they have to share any other revenue that is not player specific(tickets, food, drink, etc).

Some players are doing NIL type "work", making commercials showing up on billboards, doing live appearances, etc hawking whatever someone wants them to, see SB IV doing the Raising Canes stuff a while back, but it's always "local" to the school and nowhere near the value of what they are paid.
 

elfiii

Admin
Staff member
You just explained all the reasons I won’t be paying any attention to college football anymore other than to criticize and laugh at it.
 

Madsnooker

Senior Member
Apologies if this becomes a lengthy ramble of thoughts leading to questions. My disgust in what college football, the only sport I will sit and watch, is turning into had me trying to piece this NIL debacle together. So please help me understand it a correct me where I’m wrong.
As I understand it, NIL is payment to players for name, image, and likeness for services they provide off the football field driven by their accomplishments and popularity of being an on field player. As I understand it, these payments are provided by entities other that the universities themselves and are separate from the universities. As I understand it neither entity (the NIL collective or the university) has control of the other and operate independently of each other. Am I wrong so far?
If the above is accurate so far, then any NIL agreements between the the player and an NIL collective is between them alone and separate from any agreements made with the universities to attend the schools…….as I understand it? This would seem to me that the NIL collective owns the ‘player rights’ of an individual. Furthermore, it seems like the universities are offering education, coaching, lodging, meals, medical, tutoring, training facilities, transportation, and more without the benefits of any commitment to them from the players,……? At this point it seems as though the NIL collectives are much like unions. We all know that players can and do walk away from schools any time they want for any reason they want, so these “COMMITTED” theatrics are just attention getting shows with no substance to them.
So, if NIL collectives do or could operate much like unions, what if they decide to shop the players to other schools collectives. It wouldn’t take much imagination to see a few ways that could happen. A falling out with a school or a change in the leadership of the collective could have them go rogue and be in it for themselves. Also, what if a player isn’t panning out on the field, can an NIL collective ‘fire’ the player and stop paying them if they fall down the depth chart and their NIL loses value? Should the scholarships schools offer be rewritten to reflect the commitment between the school and the individual? It seems like the schools are only signing the student and the collectives are signing the player.
A couple final thoughts. This NIL stuff started with the argument that players were being taken advantage of due to the schools making money at the gates and the sales of merchandise associated with players. So, have the schools had to give up any profits from these income sources? Are the players really doing any NIL stuff equal to the amounts of money they receive? Is a 2nd team OG earning his?
Is NIL working?
I did a Google search for answers on the ncaa web site and this is all I came up with.
200-2.gifResizedP_465fcf82-6695-419a-a3de-39c0d2bf9e75_53747756282517.gif

Those are great questions and I think you will get as many answers as number of replies. At least to my knowledge your first thoughts on how NIL works, or should work, are close to mine and how I understand what it was originally designed for. I believe since there were no ground rules, guardrails, etc, it has steamroller ahead with no guidelines and has spiraled out of control on many fronts. It's hard to have conclusive answers on alot if it and much of it will still be decided by courts on later rulings. I think that is one big reason why schools, conferences etc are scared to make decisions at this point??? I'm just spit balling but that's how I see things presently?
 

bullgator

Senior Member
You are basically correct. The players "contract" is with a Sports Markerting Agent, who gets a percentage for representing the player. The SMA's sole concern is how much can I make for the SMA. As such, contracts with collectives are written in a manner that said player can walk away and sign with another at will with no penalty to player or SMA. I'm sure there are performance metrics written in as well to protect the collective should the player not perform as expected, see what's his name jumping ship from OSU to Texas a couple years ago when he wasn't guaranteed the starting spot. So it's the SMA that is the "union", not the collective.

Your contract thinking is spot on. The school signs the "student" while the SMA "owns" the player and "leases" him to the collective, and at any time should the player or SMA think school or collective is "mstreating" said property, they can pull their "commitment" and shop it elsewhere.

As for merchandise revenue, schools are now required to share that income with the player it "represents". Doesn't matter if your daddy played for UGA 30yrs ago and happened to wear #19 and you're buying "hjs" jersey, Brock Bowers now gets a cut, and as predicted, prices have risen SIGNIFICANTLY to reflect this. I don't think they have to share any other revenue that is not player specific(tickets, food, drink, etc).

Some players are doing NIL type "work", making commercials showing up on billboards, doing live appearances, etc hawking whatever someone wants them to, see SB IV doing the Raising Canes stuff a while back, but it's always "local" to the school and nowhere near the value of what they are paid.
Thanks. I didn’t account for the agent in the equation….. facepalm:.
It also seems like this has overshot the original intentions that the supports of pay-to-play cried for if they are getting both, merchandise revenue and collective contracts. That overshoot seems to be the biggest problem creator by allowing all the extra interests to become involved.
 

bullgator

Senior Member
I did a Google search for answers on the ncaa web site and this is all I came up with.
View attachment 1290356View attachment 1290357

Those are great questions and I think you will get as many answers as number of replies. At least to my knowledge your first thoughts on how NIL works, or should work, are close to mine and how I understand what it was originally designed for. I believe since there were no ground rules, guardrails, etc, it has steamroller ahead with no guidelines and has spiraled out of control on many fronts. It's hard to have conclusive answers on alot if it and much of it will still be decided by courts on later rulings. I think that is one big reason why schools, conferences etc are scared to make decisions at this point??? I'm just spit balling but that's how I see things presently?
And that’s why the courts sided with Tennessee and spanked the NCAA since they weren’t proactive from the beginning.
 

ddgarcia

Mr Non-Libertaw Got To Be Done My Way
Thanks. I didn’t account for the agent in the equation….. facepalm:.
It also seems like this has overshot the original intentions that the supports of pay-to-play cried for if they are getting both, merchandise revenue and collective contracts. That overshoot seems to be the biggest problem creator by allowing all the extra interests to become involved.
It was always going to go this way. Search some of my earlier posts on the subject. And there were no "guard rails/limits/rules" to be had because any of those limit the players ability to "market" themselves.

Within the next 2yrs you/we will have NFL Lite masquerading as college ball. There will be 30-60 teams that will form their own league and will only lease the rights to the college name and facility use from the schools. They will play ONLY against other teams in that league, and the CFP will be their own playoff/Super Bowl. The players will no longer have to be college students, in fact MOST likely won't be, and they will have their own union or will become part of the NFLPA(?) I think it is. It will be at THAT point the players will have a contract with the TEAM and all this madness will stop. Of course it won't matter to many of us as we are done with it.
 

antharper

“Well Rounded Outdoorsman MOD “
Staff member
Sounds about right but I think a lot of folks are overreacting .
 
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