Not a good look for the Mormon Church

[SemperFiDawg]

Feds fine Mormon church for illicitly hiding $32 billion investment fund behind shell companies.​

Feds fine Mormon church for illicitly hiding $32 billion investment fund behind shell companies

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints engaged in the scheme for more than 20 years.

www.nbcnews.com

​

I'm perplexed by the Churches and the Christians who think they can take a dime with them when they die. 32 billion!!! Think of the good such money could do to further the Kingdom of Heaven. I firmly believe that every church should cover operating expenses and spend ever extra cent that comes in toward missions. Why in the world would a church be holding that amount of capital for? Keep in mind, this is 32 billion extra they were trying to hide, not their entire capital that they showed on the books(reportedly 100 billion total). Greed has been and will continue to be the downfall of many churches and church leaders. I've said it before and I'll say it again, but the number one reason for the decline of The Church(particularly in this country) is The Church. When we stand in Heaven, if we are able to see back over the course of history we will see the rot that engulfed our world started with rot in the Church. I firmly believe that.

 

[JustUs4All]

Your idea of how the Church should operate differs from the Mormon idea. You would spend everything today. From what I have learned of the Mormons, they hold very strongly to a notion that one should work hard and be prepared for adversity. These two ideas have competed with one another for a very long time. The Greeks supposedly had a fable about it.

Please explain the "trying to hide" part. It was all reported, just not in the way that the IRS wanted it to be reported. None of it was spirited away into the accounts of individuals. This seems to be a decidedly non Mormon trait. (Full disclosure, I am a Southern Baptist tracing my roots back to the first Baptist Church in GA. That is not to say that I have not done a whole lot of "back sliding" over the course of my life).

The greedy part is interesting too. I guess we will need to create a new woke version of the fable where the greedy grasshopper is hoarding up the harvest so as to keep the government from giving it all to the lazy ants. LOL

 

[brutally honest]

Mormon church official response:

Church Statement on SEC Settlement

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints released the following statement on Thursday, February 16, 2022.

newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org

 

[brutally honest]

(Unofficial) Mormon blog:

“But here’s the thing: the church didn’t make a mistake. It’s not that it was unaware that EPA had a filing requirement—EPA informed the top church hierarchs almost immediately that it needed to file 13Fs.

But rather than comply with the law, top church leaders decided to obfuscate, to stretch the law to (or, imho, beyond) the breaking point. It’s not that mistakes were made—it’s that the church took deliberate action to do wrong.”

The Church, the Investment Advisor, and the SEC

By now, I assume you’ve heard that the church and Ensign Peak Advisors have settled an SEC investigation, with EPA agreeing to pay a $4 million fine and the church agreeing to pay a $1 millio…

bycommonconsent.com

 

[JustUs4All]

Straining at gnats there. Can you tell us how you or anyone else was harmed by the actions of the Church in this matter?

The church desired to have some privacy and relied on the advice of counsel as to how that might be had. Nothing was hidden, nothing was stolen, there was no harm done to the .Gov or to We the People.

The IRS simply took some money from an entity that does lots of good things and will use it as the .Gov normally does. The bulk will be wasted to t he detriment of We The People.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Please explain the "trying to hide" part. It was all reported, just not in the way that the IRS wanted it to be reported.

The entire reason for creating the shell companies was to hide the money. That was what burnt them. There was no other reason for creating them. From the report I heard on the radio, it wasn't an "accounting mistake". Church leadership directed the funds into the shell companies after being fully warned by the financial management team that what they were doing was illegal and they did so anyway. I find it hard to believe any reputable financial firm would go for something so questionable without full documentation. It was apparently this documentation that allowed the company to say to the Government, "Hey, don't point the gun at us. We warned them of the consequences and here's the proof." The Church leadership is attempting to portray it as an innocent "filing" mistake. It's nothing of the sort.

And I don't have an axe to grind against the Mormon church. I've known a bunch of them and they are honest, hard working people who are staunch supporters of all things Constitutional. But they were caught with their pants down on this one and there's no excusing it.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Straining at gnats there. Can you tell us how you or anyone else was harmed by the actions of the Church in this matter?

I'll do you one better. I'll tell you how everyone is harmed.

When a beacon of Christian morality (be it a person or an institution) willfully engages in immoral conduct, it seriously erodes the witness of The Church. This directly harms The Church, as in the Body of Christ, The Church. In the eyes of the uninformed, unchurched, who make no distinction between faiths all believers are the same and thus all are at least suspect if not outright guilty by association. The already rampant anti-religious sentiment is further enforced and the stereotype that all churches are nothing more than dens of hypocrites adds another block to its already formidable foundation.

Conversely the unchurched, unsaved, are more prone to perishing. They are less receptive to evangelism and the Church's ability to evangelize is weakened.

In short, no one lives in a vacuum. The oft quoted saying "Well as long as it's not hurting anyone else, what's the harm?" is a complete and utter fallacy. So NO. It's not exactly "straining at gnats when what's being discussed in the balance is the disgraceful crucifixion of Christ again by ones who proclaim Him Lord and Savior.

 

[JustUs4All]

You have failed in the attempt to go me one better. There was no immoral conduct, no eroding of the Church as in the Body of Christ. No money at all was hidden. Nothing is converted to an improper use. It was all reported to the IRS, it just was not reported the way the IRS wanted it to be reported. No one was harmed.

The regulations of the IRS and the SEC and the other agencies are highly convoluted and unnecessarily complicated. The IRS publishes it's own opinions on their own regulations in IRS Bulletins. There have already been 8 of them in 2023. There are any number of opinions as to what the regulations mean and how they are to be applied and all the opinions are not unified by the publication of the bulletins.

The Church had conflicting advice both from professional sources and chose one. The IRS chose to seize on the money so that it could be wasted instead of being used for the Godly purpose intended. Headlines are being ginned up and the story slanted so as to harm the Church and We the People.

 

[Spotlite]

The entire reason for creating the shell companies were to hide the money. That was what burnt them. There was no other reason for creating them. From the report I heard on the radio, it wasn't an "accounting mistake". Church leadership directed the funds into the shell companies after being fully warned by the financial management team that what they were doing was illegal and they did so anyway. I find it hard to believe any reputable financial firm would go for something so questionable without full documentation. It was apparently this documentation that allowed the company to say to the Government, "Hey, don't point the gun at us. We warned them of the consequences and here's the proof." The Church leadership is attempting to portray is as an innocent "filing" mistake. It's nothing of the sort.

And I don't have an axe to grind against the Mormon church. I've known a bunch of them and they are honest, hard working people who are staunch supporters of all things Constitutional. But they were caught with their pants down on this one and there's no excusing it.

IF…..that’s what happened. Honestly, all we have a charge by one and a statement by the other, so far.

 

[brutally honest]

Can you tell us how you or anyone else was harmed by the actions of the Church in this matter?

I’ll let the Mormon from post #4 speak:

“So here’s the thing: the church may consider the matter closed. But it’s not. This represents a real betrayal to the millions of church members who have worked hard to live up to their standards, to be honest even where it’s hard, to obey the law even where it’s inconvenient. It represents a deeply disappointing disclosure to the millions of Saints who have looked to the church as a model for how to act and how to live.

And saying “this matter [is] closed” doesn’t address that betrayal, that disappointment, that hypocrisy. To move forward, the church needs to address its error. Not to the SEC—it’s already done that—but to its membership. It needs to explain what went wrong, why it went wrong, how it will ensure it doesn’t go wrong again. Members have believed that the church represents a model for their lives for a long time. And, even in the wake of this news, the church can do that: it can model how to repent and come back from severe errors.”

 

[SemperFiDawg]

IF…..that’s what happened. Honestly, all we have a charge by one and a statement by the other, so far.

as @brutally honest quoted above. It is taken from a Mormon paper, created by Mormons, for Mormons. You can't get any more Pro-Mormon than that and this is what the paper reported:

But here’s the thing: the church didn’t make a mistake. It’s not that it was unaware that EPA had a filing requirement—EPA informed the top church hierarchs almost immediately that it needed to file 13Fs.

But rather than comply with the law, top church leaders decided to obfuscate, to stretch the law to (or, imho, beyond) the breaking point. It’s not that mistakes were made—it’s that the church took deliberate action to do wrong.

 

[brutally honest]

Nothing was hidden …

The fact that one church-controlled entity controlled $32 billion was hidden — for 23 years. It’s there in black and white in the SEC document.

 

[JustUs4All]

You and I will forever not see eye to eye on this issue. The unofficial Mormon Blog is not a source that holds a lot of value for me. As in all large organizations, there are those who want things changed, usually to their own benefit.

 

[brutally honest]

The IRS simply took some money from an entity that does lots of good things and will use it as the .Gov normally does.

100% preventable if they had filed correctly in the first place.

 

[JustUs4All]

Yep bu the .Gov does love it some money now don't they.

 

[brutally honest]

Yep bu the .Gov does love it some money now don't they.

… as do many in the church world.

 

[JustUs4All]

Now on that we can be in total agreement.

 

[Spotlite]

as @brutally honest quoted above. It is taken from a Mormon paper, created by Mormons, for Mormons. You can't get any more Pro-Mormon than that and this is what the paper reported:

While true, just saying it’s still their statement of defense.

 

[brutally honest]

When a beacon of Christian morality (be it a person or an institution) willfully engages in immoral conduct, it seriously erodes the witness of The Church. This directly harms The Church, as in the Body of Christ, The Church. In the eyes of the uninformed, unchurched, who make no distinction between faiths all believers are the same and thus all are at least suspect if not outright guilty by association. The already rampant anti-religious sentiment is further enforced and the stereotype that all churches are nothing more than dens of hypocrites adds another block to its already formidable foundation.

This ^^^^

The OP is an NBC News story. The MSM loves stories like this. Sex/money scandals in any church make their eyes light up. They never miss an opportunity to publicly shame a church.

 

[bullgator]

It’s not just a Mormon thang, I’m sure.