Rem 700 223 bolt action for deer ...whats your experiences

[coolbreezeroho]

When you get the rifles and have measured the twist rates, there are several here than can suggest great projectiles.

Thanks ...Liberty....It will be a week or so before I make a final decision on if I get them or not.

 

[coolbreezeroho]

My main hunting area is a lane between some thinned pines that I've kept trimmed down to about knee high. Have been keeping it trimmed down for over ten years now. Right at about 300 yards. Won't be carrying them there .....Have a couple of other spots that the max range is 80 yards or so I will be ok on the distance. Never have thought to shoot a rifle through brush that I see. So, if it's not a clear shot then sit back and just watch the show.

I've had the herd as we call it . Three mother does and their babies start at far end of the 300 yard lane and just come up to about 20 yards of me sitting on the ground. Before they finally just walk off ...Thats a rough 45 minutes or longer. Gets a littler easier when they come back and start working their way back down away from me

 

[Waddams]

the military has had issue with the 5.56 cartridge and its stopping power for as long as they've used it in fact ! Vietnam special units would use AK's instead of the M16's they were issued because of the lack of lethalness of the 5.56 round, soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq complained constantly about having to hit a bad guy 4 or 5 times to put him down, as a result the military changed the ammo they used multiple times to try to improve the situation !

Now they are leaving the 5.56 behind and going to a 6.8 cartridge , because even the latest ammo they were using still left a good bit to be desired

I'm not a vet, never shot a person. My dad is a Vietnam combat vet, has shot a lot of people with 5.56. He loved it the AR and the CAR15, said they just put it on 3 round burst and the 3 rounds together would just chew up the poor guys being hit. He he also says "if they're worth shooting once, they're worth shooting again" and it's got nothing to do with a caliber's stopping power. Of course, hunting is different, you don't want to chew the critter up like that!

He was LRRP, carried an AK occasionally on their special excursions, didn't like that one much. Has never said much more than "commie gun" as to why, and he felt he'd probably put in the neighborhood of 50,000 rounds total downrange in combat (between the AR, M14, AK, M60, and M2) and the AR was the only one that never had a malfunction in combat in his experience. I always got the feeling he felt the AR was the weapon of a professional soldier and the AK was the weapon of "lesser quality", both weapon and the poor conscript carrying it.

He keeps asking if I've used my AR to take a deer yet. Seems disappointed when I tell him, no the 243 is usually my tool of choice for that.

 

[slow motion]

While I've never had 1 I would assume it works quite well. Lots of people use them. Proper bullet construction and shot placement trump caliber every time. Good luck if you decide to go that route. Maybe report back on your results and thoughts as you go. And like always we love pics.

 

[Long Cut]

The recoil of 30-06 and 7mag don’t bother me, but the muzzle blast from a 270, 7mag, and 300 mag without plugs cause me flinching problems. That’s a wonderful part of our hobby, learning what tool works best for you given you circumstances and personal limitations. I’ll shoot the magnums, but only when it’s a situation when there is time to get plugs in.

For me personally it’s definitely the recoil.

I had installed a muzzle brake on one of my 20” 6.5 Creedmoor’s and that gun kicked like a .22 Mag, but the muzzle blast was so loud, it was unbearable to hunt with, even after 1 shot.

I also prefer to watch the animal in my scope after the shot (if they’re further off) to gauge the reaction, hit, direction of travel etc if it’s not a “DRT”. That’s typically not going to happen in a magnum caliber and I’ve noticed a lot of guys shooting magnums will pick their head up right at the trigger squeeze to “peek” at the deer, typically causing a miss.

To each their own, I prefer shooting lighter caliber guns because I can practice more often as it’s more enjoyable and doesn’t cost as much to shoot. I’m more comfortable with my .223’s and 6.5’s because of this and don’t feel handicapped for not bringing out the 30-06 etc..

 

[Long Cut]

the military has had issue with the 5.56 cartridge and its stopping power for as long as they've used it in fact ! Vietnam special units would use AK's instead of the M16's they were issued because of the lack of lethalness of the 5.56 round, soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq complained constantly about having to hit a bad guy 4 or 5 times to put him down, as a result the military changed the ammo they used multiple times to try to improve the situation !

Now they are leaving the 5.56 behind and going to a 6.8 cartridge , because even the latest ammo they were using still left a good bit to be desired

That being said a 5.56/.223 is fully capable of killing a deer , but it requires good shot placement, something 90% of deer hunters don't do , pie plate accuracy or "minute of deer" doesn't work very well with small calibers, be it .223 or .243,

If the Military had that many issues with the 5.56, you’d think they would’ve moved away from the 5.56/AR platform decades ago. Well over 50 years of service since its debut in 1967, there is a reason for that.

Why the military didn’t go for 6.5 Creedmoor or .308 leads me to believe it’s more of a money grab for some large military industrial complex attempting to “reinvent the wheel” and line their pockets with some more of our tax dollars.

There’s no doubt in my mind that the “average” hunter/shooter will shoot more accurately with the same gun in .223 than they would the same gun in 30-06, .300 WM etc…

You admit it yourself, 90% of hunters don’t have good shot placement, probably because they developed bad shooting habits behind a large magnum gun, or just don’t shoot often enough because of the cost, recoil etc..

 

[transfixer]

If the Military had that many issues with the 5.56, you’d think they would’ve moved away from the 5.56/AR platform decades ago. Well over 50 years of service since its debut in 1967, there is a reason for that.

Why the military didn’t go for 6.5 Creedmoor or .308 leads me to believe it’s more of a money grab for some large military industrial complex attempting to “reinvent the wheel” and line their pockets with some more of our tax dollars.

There’s no doubt in my mind that the “average” hunter/shooter will shoot more accurately with the same gun in .223 than they would the same gun in 30-06, .300 WM etc…

You admit it yourself, 90% of hunters don’t have good shot placement, probably because they developed bad shooting habits behind a large magnum gun, or just don’t shoot often enough because of the cost, recoil etc..

I agree your average hunter will be able to be more accurate with a .223, and I've already said with the right shot placement it will definitely put one down, the problem is better than 90% of deer hunters won't shoot enough to get that proficient , most don't even shoot a box of shells in between or before deer season, many deer hunters will use one box of shells for 3 or 4 seasons having only shot their gun once to sight it in . I work with a couple of guys who don't even zero their own rifles in ! they pay someone else to zero it for them , and then proceed to hunt with it without ever shooting it at a target ?

I don't remember all the specifics why the military chose the round they did, one was long distance energy and range, something the 5.56 was lacking terribly in , another was weight, the 6.8 they chose weighs less than a standard 7.62x51 round, there are multiple videos going over their process for what they selected, and the weapons that will be used for that round.

 

[Jester896]

many deer hunters will use one box of shells for 3 or 4 seasons having only shot their gun once to sight it in .

or 8

 

[Waddams]

ost don't even shoot a box of shells in between or before deer season, many deer hunters will use one box of shells for 3 or 4 seasons having only shot their gun once to sight it in

hey, that's me! I usually fire 2 or 3 shots before rifle season starts and that's it. unless it's off. i invested in a decent scope and good mounts well reviewed for holding zero even with being knocked around, then lock tited them, sited in, and i swear POI hasn't moved in 4 years since.

 

[transfixer]

hey, that's me! I usually fire 2 or 3 shots before rifle season starts and that's it. unless it's off. i invested in a decent scope and good mounts well reviewed for holding zero even with being knocked around, then lock tited them, sited in, and i swear POI hasn't moved in 4 years since.

As long as you can be consistently accurate doing that then that's fine I guess, if I don't shoot for a few months I have to get back familiar with where the trigger breaks, and my hold on the rifle, there is a reason competitive shooters train on a regular basis though

 

[Railroader]

Most hunters are not shooters, and that's just the way it is...

And I know a good many shooters that don't hunt much, if at all.

I say it's good to be both...

 

[Liberty]

I won’t participate in a caliber debate, only discuss what is an appropriate tool for the job at hand and why it may or may not be suitable given the circumstances of a particular hunter. My son shot a deer graveyard dead 115 yards away with a 308 when he was 9 and about 65 pounds. His first deer was with a 223 at 8 and about 50 pounds at 45 yard chip shot distance. He doesn’t flinch now, and he didn’t flinch then. His current hunting .308 rifle, a youth model 700 fits him well, and it is fitted with a thick and soft recoil pad. The scope, a quality Leupold 1.5 to 4 power was set up with the eye relief to ensure safety and a great sight picture. The ammunition was a 150 grain load moving about 2775 from the muzzle of a 20 inch barrel. The fit and setup of a rifle to the shooter matters at least as much as the chambering. What is most important is the marksmanship instruction and the shooters frequent practical pratice with the weapon. I don’t post my resume on the inter webs, but I will say that he has received professional level marksmanship training throughout his life. It’s the Indian, not the arrow. We are shooters first that go hunting when it’s cold. Being a poor shooter that doesn’t have an intricate knowledge of the game animal’s anatomy that he is hunting, is like being a race car driver that can’t work on the car and doesn’t know how it works. You can do it, but you will always be disadvantaged to the one who can, and our majestic game animals deserve to be shot clean if they are shot at all. Training and correct trigger time can’t be replaced with gadgets, magnums, bipods, or bravado.

 

[Railroader]

@Liberty...

Very well said.