Round balls in fast barrel??

[Railroader]

I have a Traditions Buckskinner, which is basically a Hawken with a 20" 1:20 twist tube.

I have had this thing for about 30 years, and I know what it'll do with a GP385, or PA Conical. I've killed critters with both bullets, and they perform well as I am capable of with aging eyes.

I have read differing opinions of balls in fast barrels, and I am thinking about trying them to see for myself.
I'm thinking that somewhere around 40-50 grains of BP, and a ball will be a good training load for The Kid.

I'd already know, but it's about 200° outside right now, and sweat and black powder don't mix ...
Anybody know for dang sure if I should bother with this??

 

[LittleDrummerBoy]

Is 3" at 50 yards good enough? With due care, this is what I've seen from fast twist barrels.

 

[Railroader]

Is 3" at 50 yards good enough? With due care, this is what I've seen from fast twist barrels.

Yep, that'd do...

 

[Darkhorse]

Conventional wisdom says a round ball from a fast twist barrel won't consistently hold a good group. But I personally have never tried it.
I have seen so many things work that I didn't think would work that nothing suprises me anymore about shooting black powder weapons. I have read that the Hawken brothers cut a 1-48 twist in the barrels for the mountain men, and I think those old hawkens shot pretty good. In fact I once had a 1-48 barreled rifle that I shot in BP shoots and did quite well.
But only your rifle can tell you the answer..... So Railroader, I think you should shoot a few and see how they do. I would start with a .015 patch, a proven patch lube and a 1/2 charge of powder and go from there.

 

[Railroader]

Conventional wisdom says a round ball from a fast twist barrel won't consistently hold a good group. But I personally have never tried it.
I have seen so many things work that I didn't think would work that nothing suprises me anymore about shooting black powder weapons. I have read that the Hawken brothers cut a 1-48 twist in the barrels for the mountain men, and I think those old hawkens shot pretty good. In fact I once had a 1-48 barreled rifle that I shot in BP shoots and did quite well.
But only your rifle can tell you the answer..... So Railroader, I think you should shoot a few and see how they do. I would start with a .015 patch, a proven patch lube and a 1/2 charge of powder and go from there.

Sounds reasonable...Will report my findings.

 

[flconch53]

The biggest trouble with RB in a fast twist barrel is that every once in a while the ball will slip the rifling. This will give a good group with 1 ball way out. The higher the powder charge that better the chance this will happen

 

[flintlock hunter]

One way around the flier is to load bore-size round ball with an .005" or .010" patch. You still need to keep the powder charge on the lighter side, maybe 50>60grs FFFG, or 70 FFG, but it could work. I had a T/C Renegade that shot under an inch @ 50 yds using a home cast .500" ball, and .010" patch and 80 grs FFFG Goex. That one had a 1:48 twist. Our Thunderhawke has a 1:38 twist and won't handle any round ball very well.

Every gun is a law unto itself, and if yours will use RB accurately is up to the gun. Just try it and see.

 

[Todd Cook]

It ought to be an interesting experiment. 1:20 seems awfully fast for a ball though. My flintlock .54 is 1:70 and my caplock .54 is 1:48. They will both shoot a roundball really well.

 

[flintlock hunter]

It ought to be an interesting experiment. 1:20 seems awfully fast for a ball though. My flintlock .54 is 1:70 and my caplock .54 is 1:48. They will both shoot a roundball really well.

The 1:48 twist in the 54 surprised me a bit, but then again every gun is a law unto itself. I have a neighbor who uses .535 ball with an .015patch in his 54 cal, to the tune of one inch groups at 50 yards with 90 grs FFG.

Since the two most common twists were 1:48 or 1:66, here is what the accepted norm would be for deer caliber muzzleloaders:

45 caliber, 1:48 or slower is most likely a round ball twist
50 caliber, 1:48 is a "compromise" twist, that rolls the dice on which it wants to shoot, round ball, or conical, or, either/or.
54 caliber and larger, will most likely show a prference for conical lead slugs like a mini, or a maxi if the twist is 1:48, however a 1:66 or slower will likely be necesary to accurately shoot a patched ball.

The 1:38 and faster twists normally are not very good with patched ball unless the ball is at or nearly bore sized, and the faster the twist the less likely it will group with any ball with anything more than a modest powder charge.

Now for the zinger: All the above may not even apply to your muzzleloader......it's all just what usually is the rule of thumb, but you need to get out on the range with a solid bench rest to find out.

Years back while the wife and I were Co-Captains of our Hunter Education Firearms Team, I watched a young woman trying to hit a 25 yard target using a .490 RB/.015" patch, and a 50 gr FFFG charge ina 1:20 twist muzzleloader.
She missed the 12"X12" target repeatedly untill we allowed her to use a speed loader she had brought along, (NJ is backward and required students to use State supplied round balls), at that time she swabbed the bore, loaded, and centerpunched the 10 ring. Go figure.

 

[Todd Cook]

The 1:48 twist in the 54 surprised me a bit, but then again every gun is a law unto itself. I have a neighbor who uses .535 ball with an .015patch in his 54 cal, to the tune of one inch groups at 50 yards with 90 grs FFG.

Since the two most common twists were 1:48 or 1:66, here is what the accepted norm would be for deer caliber muzzleloaders:

45 caliber, 1:48 or slower is most likely a round ball twist
50 caliber, 1:48 is a "compromise" twist, that rolls the dice on which it wants to shoot, round ball, or conical, or, either/or.
54 caliber and larger, will most likely show a prference for conical lead slugs like a mini, or a maxi if the twist is 1:48, however a 1:66 or slower will likely be necesary to accurately shoot a patched ball.

The 1:38 and faster twists normally are not very good with patched ball unless the ball is at or nearly bore sized, and the faster the twist the less likely it will group with any ball with anything more than a modest powder charge.

Now for the zinger: All the above may not even apply to your muzzleloader......it's all just what usually is the rule of thumb, but you need to get out on the range with a solid bench rest to find out.

Years back while the wife and I were Co-Captains of our Hunter Education Firearms Team, I watched a young woman trying to hit a 25 yard target using a .490 RB/.015" patch, and a 50 gr FFFG charge ina 1:20 twist muzzleloader.
She missed the 12"X12" target repeatedly untill we allowed her to use a speed loader she had brought along, (NJ is backward and required students to use State supplied round balls), at that time she swabbed the bore, loaded, and centerpunched the 10 ring. Go figure.

Yeah it surprised me too. Especially being what it is. It's an older model Investarms(Italian). Nice walnut stock but a short barreled carbine style gun. .530 roundball and .015 ticking patch, 70grns FFg. At 50 yards it will bust clay piegons all day long if you hold it steady. I wasn't sure about the load for deer but I shot two with it last year and it was in and out on both of them. One flipped over, the other went about 10 yards.

 

[flconch53]

This is the big myth brought on by the inline trend. You don't need magnum loads to kill deer or even elk.