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gordon 2
Senior Member
I find it interesting that you pop up here with a vid from the Hoover Inst. BECAUSE I've been having a closer look just recently. I have to wonder that their vids are popping up on social platforms like (Facebook) with more frequency than in the past-- I will try to learn why at some point.
gordon 2
Senior Member
It is rather interesting also that a human being when born, is not born with this exceptional knowledge--unlike dogs or cats, and deer which basically are born with very limited, comparatively, and individually unique and extra knowledge outside of the group to which they belong . They will not know much more than cats and dogs and deer have known ever.
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Israel
BANNED
This particular vid I came across when perusing YT, then followed with Berlinski's talk at "Socrates in the City". There are certain very accessible arguments made which, though unable of themselves to impart faith, handily demolish many of the accepted "facts" popularly promoted to denigrate it (faith).
To that end I was able to enjoy it, having that intuition confirmed that 10 million monkeys at typewriters diligently at work in expectation of eventual compilation of the collected works of Shakespeare are (in theory) no more nor less able to accomplish it in 10 minutes (or ten seconds)...than if given tens of billions of years.
Our observations and expectations so influence our conclusions that we must then lie to ourselves (and therefore others) about what we know must be true...but skew to our own observations and expectations. One monkey, one typewriter, one opportunity is no more nor less at advantage nor disadvantage. For in that great "randomness" seemingly ascribed as pater noster... the collected works of Shakespeare to exist at all, at any time, by any means or species is in itself to astronomically infinitesimal in likelihood of existence to too easily comport with anything any man might describe as miraculous. When one realizes this no less applies to gibberish, in order to to be recognized as gibberish, well, were it not for concessions of kindness to others, one might never cease to speak "in tongues".
Thus "Now is the Winter of our discontent..." is no more orderly nor miraculous than "knmkningnijnknsklsiths"
We touch and are touched by consciousness at every moment, in every turn, and our great error (such as remains) is in believing it is our own.
The miracle, such as it is or may be described...when distilled to essence and sole work of One...is that breath from another that is wholly and solely responsible for any recognition of consciousness at all.
It is a prima facie conclusion that randomness cannot have any self recognition. (And this because it cannot "be")
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
The very grace that allows for vanity of mind...is the very grace that demolishes it.
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gordon 2
Senior Member
Last thing perhaps. The last thing I take is the last thing in the vid. The ways "we" question is infinitely more complex than we know because we don't know how to question with the patience required for the infinite complexity of questioning.
I bet I get accused of trying to promote my "self importance" with this out of ordinary expression of observation, but really I am bowing with the greatest humility to the disciplines of science and faith.
I bet I get accused of trying to promote my "self importance" with this out of ordinary expression of observation, but really I am bowing with the greatest humility to the disciplines of science and faith.
gordon 2
Senior Member
Ok another. I was a little pin pricked by the idea that beauty and perhaps to it some universality that was a possible way to group pheno-me-non even perhaps consciousness.
I have to wonder what beauty and love have in commonality as if love can be assessed through some innate sense of beauty.
or inversely if beauty can equally assess beside The Good, the bad and the ugly even when presenting as good.
Of course I'm thinking within the consciousness parameters of the Jewish and Christian world of the last two thousand yrs. minimum and the history of how my ancestors got to get the booty I now enjoy. Yet why do non Jews and non Christians mainly behave not unlike ourselves--- chose what was good and bad for us yet only at different times in history and like us deny some their rights to booty and perhaps a fully formed consciousness.
I hesitate to punctuate with the ?... so put them where you will and will not. In any case from the top down and the bottom up, thanks for posting this vid.
I have to wonder what beauty and love have in commonality as if love can be assessed through some innate sense of beauty.
or inversely if beauty can equally assess beside The Good, the bad and the ugly even when presenting as good.Of course I'm thinking within the consciousness parameters of the Jewish and Christian world of the last two thousand yrs. minimum and the history of how my ancestors got to get the booty I now enjoy. Yet why do non Jews and non Christians mainly behave not unlike ourselves--- chose what was good and bad for us yet only at different times in history and like us deny some their rights to booty and perhaps a fully formed consciousness.
I hesitate to punctuate with the ?... so put them where you will and will not. In any case from the top down and the bottom up, thanks for posting this vid.
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Israel
BANNED
LOL...not by me. An honest scientist, as an honest preacher, honest lawyer, honest banker, honest...anyone...(even Berlinski admitting Gerlentner's consciousness, and his questions about it, though no doubt important to Gerlentner...is not of much import to him) is rare...even if not entirely true.
In our quest to know Him who is from the beginning...first actor (and therefore sole actor...not "in reaction") deliverance from the provoking impact of lesser consciousness (wherein we often suffer) is a real thing.
When we come to recognize our greatest suffering is precisely due to our estate of consciousness relative to ourselves, as you say:
can turn a man.
Suppose the question is turned? From..."what is the hardest thing about following Christ"...to one another... to a directing otherwise? "Lord Jesus what is the hardest thing about following God your Father?"
Might a man hear (who could hear such a thing?!)
"Nothing besides that matter accomplished to keep man from knowing what awaits if not of me, and following me...".
I have never heard the Lord throw up His suffering and death for my sake in my face. God forbid I provoke Him in this, but He shows Himself always too delightful.
If the vision seems slow...wait for it...
gordon 2
Senior Member
Jesus wept. God wept.
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.
I'm not certain that this is not meant equally to our faces. Nevertheless I get you.
I just occurs to me that "good" science and good Christianity has within its disciplines the bedrock of first sources. When we forego first sources we are into propaganda.
In the beginning was the Word ( logos) and the Word was with... For Christian spiritually this has to be Christ. For the sciences it has to be different things depending on the kind of science and when there are no first sources... there is honesty and integrity with facts known.
Jesus wept. God wept.
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gordon 2
Senior Member
The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have Me.
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Is your delight that even poor, or with wealth, His spirit is always had. That in excess or restraint the love of God or God love is never far away.
But I get it on the preacher that gets carried away with Christ died for you and the coax of guilt at the expense of The Resurrection. For the Resurrection such joy is mine... as yours perhaps.
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Is your delight that even poor, or with wealth, His spirit is always had. That in excess or restraint the love of God or God love is never far away.
But I get it on the preacher that gets carried away with Christ died for you and the coax of guilt at the expense of The Resurrection. For the Resurrection such joy is mine... as yours perhaps.
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Israel
BANNED
...who for the the joy set before Him.
Thanks guys, your observations have brought to my attention things that I might never have found on my own; which leads me to ask that you point out for me any logical or observational error I may have committed in thinking that when Gerlenter says, in his essay (@32:05):
"If there was an intelligent designer, what was his strategy? How did he manage to back himself into so many corners, wasting energy on so many doomed organisms: What was his purpose: And why did he do such a slipshod job: Why are we so disease prone, heartbreak prone, and so on?"
—David Gerlenter, Claremont Review of Books
he has assumed, in my view incorrectly, that our knowledge is sufficient to distinguish what is a useful, or even a necessary, building block from that which is classified as gibberish? The extension of which is that we are describing as gibberish that which we do not understand (i.e., a mutation that did not reproduce, "doomed organisms", etc.)? His assumption leads him to conclude that the world "is a mess" (a conclusion that, I confess, I have many times expressed). Is it not a similar assumption of knowledge that leads to genocide, but also leads to hybridization of flowers and genetically modified food grains, and selective breeding of hunting dogs. From there, as Meyer points out, we are led to the question of good and evil (Theodicy). Maybe, and I think it is, that tempting tree is serving the exact purpose for which it was placed in the garden.
Faith?
"If there was an intelligent designer, what was his strategy? How did he manage to back himself into so many corners, wasting energy on so many doomed organisms: What was his purpose: And why did he do such a slipshod job: Why are we so disease prone, heartbreak prone, and so on?"
—David Gerlenter, Claremont Review of Books
he has assumed, in my view incorrectly, that our knowledge is sufficient to distinguish what is a useful, or even a necessary, building block from that which is classified as gibberish? The extension of which is that we are describing as gibberish that which we do not understand (i.e., a mutation that did not reproduce, "doomed organisms", etc.)? His assumption leads him to conclude that the world "is a mess" (a conclusion that, I confess, I have many times expressed). Is it not a similar assumption of knowledge that leads to genocide, but also leads to hybridization of flowers and genetically modified food grains, and selective breeding of hunting dogs. From there, as Meyer points out, we are led to the question of good and evil (Theodicy). Maybe, and I think it is, that tempting tree is serving the exact purpose for which it was placed in the garden.
Faith?
Israel
BANNED
yes.
faith.
And we are in possession of (or in the possession of) such that both the flourishing of trees and the ravaging of trees is totally consistent.
God knows I cannot for the life of me know why I came across this...or even much remember how...and inasmuch as memory serves me I have no shred of memory thinking "let me see if I can find something that might counter the Darwinian model..." anymore than I can imagine either of you (present participants in commentary) came across this post in search of something similar.
And God forbid I make anything of it of itself. I am too familiar (am I too familiar?) with both of you to doubt your recall of the scripture "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."
If then, in using the language of the vid, the faith we know (and speak of) is as different from mere expression "I believe there is a God" as might appear only different by degree (and of not very particular kind) from "Jesus Christ is the Son of God and Lord of all".
No, our faith is so entirely a different thing as (if I may not be misunderstood) as Jesus Christ Himself is an entirely different...thing. Theism and even monotheism holds in itself nothing of salvation. Monotheism may be true...but it, of itself is not the truth. (And I do not say "may" meaning "it might be"...but that to the soul that "may" accept it...it is of little consequence)
Am I too bold? I think Gerlenter's anecdote of the the two rabbis. Concluding that "their" One God was all of mistaken in undertaking creation. Better in all...they concluded...left undone!
So I do not wish to belabor that with you, embarrassing myself more than is necessary.
But you Hummer, mention the tree. And you Gordon the resurrection. And you are both free to answer if I hear you.
For it is only in the faith that displays the resurrection as true that "the tree" that would otherwise comport with Gerlenter's argument of the "unnecessary" or fruitless "dead end works" (and perhaps even to many christians as singularly impedimentary) is shown as the wisdom of God in creation.
The "why" of "Why allow what is forbidden?" is answered only by that faith. Not only so that "allowance" is made...but there is an express purpose to all...even what is at one time...forbidden. God's good pleasure to raise who (and what was hitherto rightly assigned...for God once assigned it so...) as curse for hanging on a tree should (of all people) not be lost on us.
To say, as you do, Hummer in regards to Gerlenter's argument that
finds me not only agreeing...but even provoked to being more overjoyed that in our God there are no "dead ends", no thing less than a perfection of efficiency despite any appearances to our own reason! So that our own reason cannot be anything in that light but hilariously (and by design) upended...even to that specific end...of hilarity!
I am not talking of the maniacal giggles of a madman...(though no doubt to some it must appear)...but the piercing through to this truth..."The joy of the Lord is our strength"! Our God is all of "no" drudgery, no weariness, no guilt plagued response to, or in, His creation. And therefore, neither are we. Is it in some, or any way, fair to say Jesus waits on us, for us, with us...for any who would ask "when you say "free" Lord...what do you mean free is?" (I must remember I speak not only in your brother's presence)
Paul seemed to understand being "beside himself to the Lord', yet constraining himself for mercy's sake to appear as what men could receive as "right minded" to not stumble those who would not yet understand.
Paul knew (too well?) or at least so well as he could not avoid mentioning it that "Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:"
Yet...he is entirely persuaded that that One...is now raised as Lord and Christ!
Enthroned!
What appeared end (for He did die hung upon a tree...not before...not after) is not end...at all!
God, according to His own foreknowledge and will, is not bound by our interpretation of the limits we impose of restriction by any significance we attach to anything by our understandings.
Now...no doubt to some, perhaps many in the Lord my hilarity is a shame and counter to sober thinking as is made to our recommendation. And by the grace of God I too participate in their sobriety. They "touch" me with it.
But were they to be "inserted" into my knowing...even of myself...they might begin to understand why hilarity at what appears most to itself as useless and dead end is nevertheless created to God's purpose.
Of this you brothers so often remind me...(and others also)...that this matter of faith (and specifically only that which is found in the Son of God) is far more precious than all and anything the world may offer...even in what may appear reasonable dispute...as to be laughable.
Gordon rightly reminds me Jesus wept. Perhaps even so that I do not forget God laughs.
I may add, if it be presumption, God knows.
Gerlenter.
For some reason my heart goes out to him. I think of Jesus beholding the rich young ruler. "and He loved him..."
This guys brains and reason have brought him pretty far in this world with those riches. He seems as "one close"...but this one thing thou lackest...and I don't think the implications are lost on him. There's something to be lost in what he does not yet grasp as all of gain. A counting something of no matter...that has been of very much matter.
The faith of the Son of God puts all on the same field of grace. Pride has hidden so many things from sight that are the plainest of the plain when seen. Perhaps the mention of "the poor you have always with you...but I..." has something of it...though it does not refute "whatsoever you do for the least of these...".
So it may be that longing for the Lord when He seems not near becomes the very door by which one may discover He is always at hand to be found.
Both poor and rich are in the same cup. Poor by whatever standard, rich by whatever standard. The rich man may say "oh, but I have so much to lose in surrender"...but no less the poor..."what little I have I, too, cannot afford to lose by putting it at risk..."
And so, having not seen that once as plainly as now...I find grace accounts in all for such common ground as none of us has either excuse nor right expectation of indulgence. All...is gain. What regrets may seem real, even at times most real...are but precious vanities fit for sacrifice upon our altar.
The guarantee that even our tears are stored up...must come to fill us with a certain joy...lest we doubt. Yet...even then...grace abounds.
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gordon 2
Senior Member
Matthew 6:9-13
New Revised Standard Version
9 “Pray then in this way:
Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name.
10 Your kingdom come.
Your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.[a]
12 And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And do not bring us to the time of trial,[b]
but rescue us from the evil one.[c]
Luke 11:2-4
New Revised Standard Version
2 He said to them, “When you pray, say:
Father,[a] hallowed be your name.
Your kingdom come.[b]
3 Give us each day our daily bread.[c]
4 And forgive us our sins,
for we ourselves forgive everyone indebted to us.
And do not bring us to the time of trial.”[d]
New Revised Standard Version
9 “Pray then in this way:
Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name.
10 Your kingdom come.
Your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.[a]
12 And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And do not bring us to the time of trial,[b]
but rescue us from the evil one.[c]
Luke 11:2-4
New Revised Standard Version
2 He said to them, “When you pray, say:
Father,[a] hallowed be your name.
Your kingdom come.[b]
3 Give us each day our daily bread.[c]
4 And forgive us our sins,
for we ourselves forgive everyone indebted to us.
And do not bring us to the time of trial.”[d]
gordon 2
Senior Member
What is the time of trial? Does it have anything to do with the content of your observations in this tread? Why is it not desirable that God would need to bring us to a time of trial? What does it mean? Jesus went through times of trial... and came out on the other side smelling Rose of Sharon. So why is it not a good thing for us? Saints have the fragrance and the need to have a trial is because the fragrance that is, is gone or absent? Somehow my questions seem so inadequate... or only minimally useful perhaps.
It seems that for all the suffering in the world, despite the old bromide of " the world of sin and sorrow" it cannot be a trail for us? Human beings through their life spans, because of the challenges for each stage no matter where they are demarked as stages, the challenges are not trails? By nature being a teenager is not a time of trail nor is old age? Why would an apostle say Jesus said" Father, do not bring us to the time of trial"?
It seems that for all the suffering in the world, despite the old bromide of " the world of sin and sorrow" it cannot be a trail for us? Human beings through their life spans, because of the challenges for each stage no matter where they are demarked as stages, the challenges are not trails? By nature being a teenager is not a time of trail nor is old age? Why would an apostle say Jesus said" Father, do not bring us to the time of trial"?
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I understand, and do often experience, the hilarity of which you speak. However, more often it is an anguish that comes from a, perhaps errant, perception of a dearth in the world of a view of God as absolutely and purely transcendent. This in spite of the clear teaching:
Bless you, for bringing that lesson to the forefront.
Although I have no idea if it will be useful for you; when reading your post the thought that came to my mind was a semantical construct, of my own, which has been helpful to me in understanding testing and temptation in scripture: A temptation is a test that has been failed, and this is underlain by the idea that a test is intended to, and results in, edification, while a temptation is intended to, and results in detriment.
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Israel
BANNED
First brother, because of (only) my own weakness in expression (and frequent typos) the use of trials and trails could be a wisely applied transposition of letters by intent (yours or another's)...or something other.
If I say trials are trails of entrance do I sound clever? (taking your post as entirely right minded and "inerrant")
Did another not say something too similar? (not excluding the many things Jesus spoke of trials, by any means)
"By many tribulations we must enter the Kingdom of God"
Another spoke of where such trials/tribulations to that specific entrance are found:
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
A companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience...found where? In Jesus Christ.
If there be any question (and it is found true) that I testify of other than what is found in Jesus Christ of such tribulations (as entrance), I am a liar.
If we also take this as true (not only as a true and good recommendation to "consider" but also as to what is to be considered is actual in Christ's experience)
"For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds."
But we know (do we know?) another thing written?
Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
God forbid I deny the sufferings of Christ. (But I do not sense you accuse me of that)
We have much in trust(s), and super abundance of promise...all found in One. Whether that One has been shown to any soul as the worth of all enduring God knows. Whether I speak in faith or presumption...again...God knows.
Do I know all the suffering that may be appointed to the presumptuous? I don't believe so. Even with grace I barely bear...God forbid I tempt God! Do I want to? I don't believe so. Have I tasted any...God knows. Does God also know I have been in a place where to my bones I have known myself "found out" as liar, as arrogant fool...as heady buffoon and treacherous liar and heard only laughter from heaven...at my rightly earned trouble? (Oh what promises we decline to acknowledge!)
Would God really wipe feces on a man's face? Malachi 2:3?
Can a man survive this? Can a man be swallowed by a great fish in fleeing? Can a man accept such righteous judgment when he is found so...? And more to the point....might such a man know...there...such righteous judgment is entirely fitting and right in all...and still be called up to life from such depths? Will he then imagine in some way...he has earned such "right to life"? Ha!
Can a man who writes "behold the kindness and severity of God" and also, "now all these things happened to them as examples for our admonition" be true?
Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
"Knowing the terror of the Lord, we persuade men..." such a one wrote. Did he walk in doom and gloom or step as a jittery and neurotic soul trembling at every and any shadow?
But in touching him...do we touch that chord...of such sobriety and right sight that we believe him when he says he embarrasses himself in being pressed to speak of those things he has been through...for the Lord's sake? What a bundle this man is...who fillets himself in our sight. Such a one who would say:
For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
How dismissive! Light affliction?!!!
Unless the glory is so far exceeding to be seen as to make all "our troubles" seem as nothing. Ahhhh! labor pains!
A means...yes. To an end...yes. And for us both the means and the end are found in, and are...Jesus Christ. One dare not say "the troubles are not there" without dismissing Jesus Christ...Himself.
But there is a perspective that is right.
And one ought not suffer as an evildoer.
Angels long to look into this salvation. This gift. Its means...its ends.
There are things faith shows us that should not be considered, nor really can be, our reason for faith. Except we be able to show God...who is our reason, source of all reason...and ours for faith. But we live and deal among those grasping (even as we once) in the dark. God modulates light in grace.
But He knows...doesn't He? John's falling as one "dead" at the vision of Christ...and the many others of His own created to bear the heavenly vision...even though it strike them as dead...or blind.
But we are shown things. Real things. Hard things. Immutable things. Firm...things. If our hope is "airy fairy"...then we would speak airy fairy...of this hope that is within us...to which we are recommended to give account.
How often are we accused of speaking "around things"? Cryptically? Poetically? (as though poesy is not the height of reason?)
Give me formulae! Give me "proofs"...as though the very laws of nature are not themselves the poetry of God? Give us axioms! Give us the math...as though math itself is steeped otherwhere and can step outside the creation to contain it! Ha!
Were one to watch the other vid posted one would see the very compelling case made for the "new" religion of science with its priests. The ones making themselves...necessary. The ones "able" to weigh others and find them wanting by their priestly wisdoms. By their elaborate maths. Their priestly doctrines.
Oh, yes, I do love the "reason" for the OP...it is no more mine to have or give, anymore than Elijah's testimony among the priests of Baal...was his own. Their own maths have made a fool of them. Their own calculations of "how things are and must be" is a wretched pile of stinking feces...displayed. Yes, let the God who answers by fire...be God.
So I shall sprinkle my sacrifice with water, so drench it with what I can bear and be made able to carry to it...for a soaking. Spare not! Spare not!
And this I lay out. For fire. Before "their" priests and all those who find them drawn to their kindredness.
There can be no reason in the creation found unless there is reason to it, and for it.
This axiom is not my reason for faith, but faith has shown me its reason. If a man care to refute it...he refutes his own reason...and let him then be as a silent fool rather than a lying knave. There is no other option. Silence...or lie.
Paul said, after so many had come to beguile, step forward, even smack the people of God in the face...that to his shame he was too timid among them to be so bold as was needed...for they themselves showed they loved it so! They rolled out their carpets for the "worldly wise" who made merchandise of them.
What is not of faith...has been by grace...allowed to speak till such words piled in, and by their stink may work a right repentance. That is sole reason of allowance for any faithless word...that is of any benefit to man. For what reason of God may show otherwise...such working is only eternal lament...for every man is allowed ample with which to make right repentance. Unless in that place of eternal lament his words echo only to himself "I have no reason to repent"...for he cannot find it. Reason.
Only faith has right to speak. Only faith ever has. Men have toyed with reason as a plaything (as have we all) till by such toying and twisting (as silly children tired on christmas night of gifts only want to see how many can pile on the rocking horse before it breaks) that by the gift...they even break it...and lose connection to source. And are left unreasoning beasts.
Such is where we are at the end of the age.
And the only one who could, can...and even would call us from a deadly harm of no recovery...still calls. He knows his own.
So that apostle wrote:
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
Men are marvelling...whispering to one another, astonished, confounded...regretting their beholding of the things they see coming upon the earth.
We were warned..."so that when all these things take place you will not be offended".
And the God who answers by fire...
Dear Gordon...none of this, at all, can teach a poet anything, or is meant to. But your thinking provokes my thinking, your reason provokes my reason...your faith...provokes my faith...as have the so many here to which I am indebted.
I am just a fool dancing to the music I hear coming through you.
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Israel
BANNED
I am not the only one who watches you suffer restraint. But I have. And delight in it.
I had thought that I was perceived as decidedly unrestrained by generally accepted standards, which leaves me without understanding or response.
Israel
BANNED
I watched a fellow once at a skating rink going very slowly...almost awkwardly, and made my own assumptions as to his experience of skating and his skill.
It was not until I could see behind him he had a child in tow, hand grasping his belt; little doubt her first attempt at skating.
Later, when this fellow was unhitched and moving rhythmically, smoothly, even swiftly around the rink and quite enjoying himself did I begin to understand.
"For their sakes I sanctify myself..."
It was not until I could see behind him he had a child in tow, hand grasping his belt; little doubt her first attempt at skating.
Later, when this fellow was unhitched and moving rhythmically, smoothly, even swiftly around the rink and quite enjoying himself did I begin to understand.
"For their sakes I sanctify myself..."
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