Timber experts. Question

Bob2010

Senior Member
Really wanting to skip herbicide treatment. We cut 8 months ago. Tons of slash and fuel on the ground. Grassy weeds all die off in the winter time. I don't mind competition with my new pines. Slower growth and thick cover is awesome for hunting. Assuming the Pines eventually win. I don't want my food plots, oaks, or fruit trees to take a hit accidentally. Is spraying necessary? Or just reccomended?
 

joejoe47

Member
If you want to maximize timber growth spraying Is highly recommended. Mechanical site prep is much more expensive and does not remove competition as well. There are 3 methods of applying herbicide; helicopter, skidders or tractors, and backpack sprayers. Backpacks are much more precise. Creating an upland site with a mix of pine and hardwood can be rewarding in many ways. I have some that I walk through every week. It gives you rewards that rows of pines cannot offer. If the site has lots of sweet gum spraying may be the only way to get rid of them.
 

Bob2010

Senior Member
If you want to maximize timber growth spraying Is highly recommended. Mechanical site prep is much more expensive and does not remove competition as well. There are 3 methods of applying herbicide; helicopter, skidders or tractors, and backpack sprayers. Backpacks are much more precise. Creating an upland site with a mix of pine and hardwood can be rewarding in many ways. I have some that I walk through every week. It gives you rewards that rows of pines cannot offer. If the site has lots of sweet gum spraying may be the only way to get rid of them.
This is good information. Thank you! I probably won't get the privilege of both pine and hardwood. I say that because I want to burn every 2 years. Will the Hardwoods endure that if it's not too hot? I love the idea of it. I hate sweet gums. I need to check that out. I will spray if that's the only way to kill them. I'm getting quotes for $375 an acre for back spraying. Does that sound right?
 

buckpasser

Senior Member
I’d strongly consider just hand planting right through it. You seem to imply that your goals aren’t purely financial. Have you been to a timber company site prep planting lately? It’s a wasteland. The only way I’d treat a property like that is if my livelihood depended on it.

Are you planting longleaf?

I do agree with JoeJoe about the sweetgums. If they’re rampant I would consider nuking the place. If they’re spotty I’d probably just spot spray in a year or so.
 

Triple C

Senior Member
Aerial sprayed with helicopter 3 weeks ago in prep of replanting following clearcut back in the summer. Forester highly recommended spraying. Replanting in loblolly.
 

Semi-Pro

Full-Pro
The pines most likely won't win, the sweetgums will. I have mine cut a few years ago. I'm skipping the herbicide and just burning. The forestry said it should be ok but would be better dead. I'm okay with not spending that money. I had a slash pile as big as a house. It took me 2 years to burn it down.
I'm scheduled for the forestry to burn in Jan, took them 2 years to get on the schedule
 

Semi-Pro

Full-Pro
Also talk to the forestry division. They can point you to the other person that will give you the info on cost sharing. They will pay a percentage of spray, burn , land clearing, planting, etc. I believe it was 40%of the spray costs. They do them each seperate
 

Kev

Senior Member
If you site prep spray, you’ll get better results but won’t have much browse for a year or two. After that it will grow thick again. Site prep spraying doesn’t kill everything forever. Another option might be to plant and then do a post plant release. I wouldn’t plant pines on a somewhat fertile site without some sort of spraying.

With all this being said, I own 100 acre tract and I’m having 30 clearcut. I will be spraying, burning, and planting. If I’m going to spend the time and money, I want a good stand. From age 3-10 or so, a pine plantation offers excellent bedding and browsing. At age 15-16 you can thin and increase your bedding and browsing. Also, you can have a cutover hand sprayed which will allow applicators to be more precise if absolutely needed. I Hate that rambled so much but you seem to ask the same questions repeatedly about spraying cutovers.
 
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deers2ward

Senior Member
I'm getting quotes for $375 an acre for back spraying. Does that sound right?
I got an aerial (helicopter) spray done in September for $74.15/acre. PM me if you want the contact info.

Given we have already had a hard frost, you might go ahead and burn what you have, replant in Jan, then do a release (spray) in April or May
 

Elkbane

Senior Member
I would do a back-pack spray to control the sweetgum, if you have a lot of it in your understory, otherwise, by the time the pines get old enough to withstand prescribed fire, you'll have an ungodly mess. I would NOT burn the slash on the ground pre-plant; it's free fertilizer and no sense sending all of that free nitrogen and mulch up in smoke! That is, unless it's so thick as to preclude planter access.

The back-pack spray job should be no more than $125/acre....
ELkbane
 

Bob2010

Senior Member
I got an aerial (helicopter) spray done in September for $74.15/acre. PM me if you want the contact info.

Given we have already had a hard frost, you might go ahead and burn what you have, replant in Jan, then do a release (spray) in April or May
Sending you a message now. Definitely would like the info. I have Oak drains bordering the cuts. I gotta 100 or so fruit trees etc planted too. I was concerned about aireal applications. It will be next winter when we burn. But it's all dead looking now in the cut. Seems with all the slash it would burn ok. Sweet gums are a different concern all together. May have to spray to kill them.
 

Bob2010

Senior Member
I would do a back-pack spray to control the sweetgum, if you have a lot of it in your understory, otherwise, by the time the pines get old enough to withstand prescribed fire, you'll have an ungodly mess. I would NOT burn the slash on the ground pre-plant; it's free fertilizer and no sense sending all of that free nitrogen and mulch up in smoke! That is, unless it's so thick as to preclude planter access.

The back-pack spray job should be no more than $125/acre....
ELkbane
Thank you. This is the information I need. Unfortunately the slash is thick. I spent a chunk of money paying a crew to chop and drop it to the ground. It's like a thick mat of wood knee deep now. I wanted to reduce the larger piles and get it on the ground to control erosion. I was concerned about fire and tired of looking at it. Lots of it is hardwood too. The loggers left a bunch of pulpwood too. It will take 3 more years for it to be plantable if I don't burn it. Do you have any backpack contacts in NW GA? I need to see how much sweet gum is in there. I hate sweet gum! Probably need to spray with a backpack. Thank you again for your help.
 

Bob2010

Senior Member
If you site prep spray, you’ll get better results but won’t have much browse for a year or two. After that it will grow thick again. Site prep spraying doesn’t kill everything forever. Another option might be to plant and then do a post plant release. I wouldn’t plant pines on a somewhat fertile site without some sort of spraying.

With all this being said, I own 100 acre tract and I’m having 30 clearcut. I will be spraying, burning, and planting. If I’m going to spend the time and money, I want a good stand. From age 3-10 or so, a pine plantation offers excellence bedding and browsing. At age 15-16 you can thin and increase your bedding and browsing. Also, you can have a cutover hand sprayed which will allow applicators to be more precise if absolutely needed.
Thank you. I bought 70 acres and we cut 32 acres. We preserved the mature Oaks, wetlands, etc. My plan keeps evolving. I am doing some in food plots. But 5 0r 10 acres I'm trying to get into a pollinators program. This will be awesome for deer and all wildlife. I had roads/ firebreaks cut and grubbed around the perimeter of the cuts. I want to burn the Pines and pollinators every 2 years together. Basically create a pine plantation with native grasses and wildflower openings on the ridges. It's expensive! You can flat out burn money in a clear cut! Hard to know what the right move is to hit long term goals. I don't like the idea of no vegetation for 2 years. That's terrible for the hunting.
 

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Bob2010

Senior Member
Also talk to the forestry division. They can point you to the other person that will give you the info on cost sharing. They will pay a percentage of spray, burn , land clearing, planting, etc. I believe it was 40%of the spray costs. They do them each seperate
Yes. Already in the works. We have a great forester in Chattooga. He is helping me currently. We maybe receiving some help from the EQIP grant. That will change things as well. Who knows mechanical site prep could happen? We are a candidate for the forestery stewardship program. He did a full timber plan for us. He reccomends spraying. I just dread another year of poor hunting and no vegetation. Just looking at options. Thank you for your help.
 

Bob2010

Senior Member
I’d strongly consider just hand planting right through it. You seem to imply that your goals aren’t purely financial. Have you been to a timber company site prep planting lately? It’s a wasteland. The only way I’d treat a property like that is if my livelihood depended on it.

Are you planting longleaf?

I do agree with JoeJoe about the sweetgums. If they’re rampant I would consider nuking the place. If they’re spotty I’d probably just spot spray in a year or so.
True! I could spot spray sweet gums myself. Definitely not money motivated. We cut 30 year old pines mixed with some Oaks. I had 70 Acres of mature trees with no bedding cover anywhere. The hunting died after the acorns were done. I couldn't stand it. Plus the trees were blowing over in storms. Big trees wasted. I have a plan for sure. The Pines will be for bedding and cover. Long term for native grasses too. I am getting into pollinators as well. Hoping for 10 Acres in openings throughout the Pines. Firebreaks throughout so we can burn every 2 years. Food plots too. I put in culverts, fruit trees, and a gravel road through the property. I want a little mini plantation property. Lots of transitions, bedding, cover, food, water, etc. We may not harvest the Pines when they mature. Just thin them. Thinking about Loblolly Pines hand planted.
 

Bob2010

Senior Member
The pines most likely won't win, the sweetgums will. I have mine cut a few years ago. I'm skipping the herbicide and just burning. The forestry said it should be ok but would be better dead. I'm okay with not spending that money. I had a slash pile as big as a house. It took me 2 years to burn it down.
I'm scheduled for the forestry to burn in Jan, took them 2 years to get on the schedule
Dang! Was the burn wait for the dozer? I will spray if sweetgums will win. Even if I spot spray myself. I made our loggers spread my slash out. The piles make me angry. Lol! I'm also afraid to light the big piles without a pit. I have certainly wasted some money on my cut so far. Let me know how it burns without herbicide please. I'm curious. Thanks
 

buckpasser

Senior Member
True! I could spot spray sweet gums myself. Definitely not money motivated. We cut 30 year old pines mixed with some Oaks. I had 70 Acres of mature trees with no bedding cover anywhere. The hunting died after the acorns were done. I couldn't stand it. Plus the trees were blowing over in storms. Big trees wasted. I have a plan for sure. The Pines will be for bedding and cover. Long term for native grasses too. I am getting into pollinators as well. Hoping for 10 Acres in openings throughout the Pines. Firebreaks throughout so we can burn every 2 years. Food plots too. I put in culverts, fruit trees, and a gravel road through the property. I want a little mini plantation property. Lots of transitions, bedding, cover, food, water, etc. We may not harvest the Pines when they mature. Just thin them. Thinking about Loblolly Pines hand planted.

You won’t be able to burn loblolly for about the first fifteen years or until they are thinned. LL are the only “burnable” pine that can take it. I like lob, but just know they will be brushy.
 
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