Top doctrines in Christianity you consider false.

[WaltL1]

I'm not inclined to type an essay on my phone.

Just pick any doctrine you like and then scroll through earlier threads. I agree with bullet, ambush, Walt, NC, etc. you pick. They are more willing to say the same thing over and over than I am.

They are more willing to say the same thing over and over than I am.

It can get somewhat monotonous but I find it a necessary
exercise as you get different responses/thoughts/opinions/understandings etc. from different people/Christians.

 

[red neck richie]

I was raised by a Baptist preacher, and I was made to be in church Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night, bible school, revivals, etc.

The doctrines that made me question the whole thing the most were:

The idea that people are naturally evil, sinful, unworthy beings, even though we were supposedly created in the image of God, and had our nature, personality, and instincts installed by God; who then blames us for acting just like he created us to act, then casts us into He11 by default for being ourselves unless we perform repentance ceremonies to redeem ourselves. Add in the whole convoluted plan that we were created in the image of God, then sinned, and then God sent his son to suffer and die as a sacrifice to absolve our sins that he built into us so that we don't have to roast for eternity. If that's the most logical plan that God can come up with, he lacks imagination and management skills. The whole Job story didn't help either. Indeed, this idea of God brings to mind the sadistic kid who pulls the wings off of flies to watch them spin around on the tabletop. And the idea that God sits around watching us all the time to see what we do or don't do so that he can punish us for it.

Totally unbelievable stories taken as literal fact, like Noah's Ark, order of creation that contradicts logic, such as plants being created before the Sun was, etc.

The idea that people were created to subdue the Earth and have dominion over it, and we are better than everything else on Earth. And the idea that the Bible is the pure word of God straight from his mouth, when it is evident that it isn't. And the idea that we can even understand a power like God, much less know exactly what he/she/it wants.


I am not an atheist, I think; as I believe in a higher power. But, I don't really think that it bears any resemblance to the Christian God, or any other organized religion. My idea of God after a half-century of study and observation is much more along the lines of the God of most Native American tribes and our own Celtic and hunter-gatherer ancestors- of God being a universal non-anthropomorphic energy or power or force that is present and reveals itself in all things of creation, the unknowable Great Mystery. Personally, I have always felt much closer to God out alone on a mountaintop, in the woods, or on a riverbank than I have stuffed into a manmade building full of judgmental people trying to impress each other with their piety.

I have always felt much closer to God out alone on a mountaintop, in the woods, or on a riverbank than I have stuffed into a manmade building full of judgmental people trying to impress each other with their piety. I totally agree with you on this. As do I. But those judgmental people need to be there just as much if not more than you and I. I disagree people are naturally evil. Some are some aren't but people are naturally sinful. I do think you and Atlas have some resentment as the way you were raised though. And with Atlas losing both his parents in the same year has some anger as well. Which is understandable as I couldn't imagine how I would feel.

 

[WaltL1]

I believe whole heatedly in the Christian God, but I can see through scripture how man has made a mess of Christianity... Much of what is taught today just isn't scriptural.
He11
Church attendance
Losing Salvation
The end of the world
Etc...
Most of this, in my opinion was added to form the Roman Catholic Church, which was a merger of Christianity and Paganism.

While I understand and agree with your opinion, I don't think Roman Catholicism can be separated out and pointed at. All the denominations have the same foundation they just differ on some of the details.
If one rejects the foundation as entirely man made/man's opinion, the varying details (without proof) of the various denominations really don't matter a whole lot.

 

[hobbs27]

The Roman Catholic Church was created and existed for the sole purpose of controlling people, IMO. Throughout the Middle Ages, the Church held the same position in Europe that Islamic theocracy holds in the Middle East today.

Yeah, I agree

 

[WaltL1]

The Roman Catholic Church was created and existed for the sole purpose of controlling people, IMO. Throughout the Middle Ages, the Church held the same position in Europe that Islamic theocracy holds in the Middle East today.

I see it slightly different.
I see it as more of a "power" thing.
With that power comes the dominance, riches, control etc.
Controlling the people is just a means to gaining that power.
Might be a difference without much of a distinction though.

 

[hobbs27]

While I understand and agree with your opinion, I don't think Roman Catholicism can be separated out and pointed at. All the denominations have the same foundation they just differ on some of the details.
If one rejects the foundation as entirely man made/man's opinion, the varying details (without proof) of the various denominations really don't matter a whole lot.

True, but as denominations pull away, they have taken some things with them. It's been a long process.... The Hellenistic Alexandrian period was very influential in the church and cultural beliefs.

 

[red neck richie]

True, but as denominations pull away, they have taken some things with them. It's been a long process.... The Hellenistic Alexandrian period was very influential in the church and cultural beliefs.

I don't follow denominations. IMO there are no denominations in Heaven. Sorry no Catholic section.

 

[WaltL1]

True, but as denominations pull away, they have taken some things with them. It's been a long process.... The Hellenistic Alexandrian period was very influential in the church and cultural beliefs.

Just a comment that is kind of off topic -
I know for a fact that my religious indoctrination still exists in the back seat of my mind because, being raised Catholic, my seemingly uncontrollable initial reaction whenever someone says something "negative" about Catholicism is "Hey now don't be saying something like that"

It's weird but I think a statement of the psychological effect religious indoctrination has.

 

[hobbs27]

Just a comment that is kind of off topic -
I know for a fact that my religious indoctrination still exists in the back seat of my mind because, being raised Catholic, my seemingly uncontrollable initial reaction whenever someone says something "negative" about Catholicism is "Hey now don't be saying something like that"

It's weird but I think a statement of the psychological effect religious indoctrination has.

That's interesting... I'm not trying to say they are evil or less Godly than any other denominations. I just think they are the beginning of the problems in modern Christianity.

 

[red neck richie]

Just a comment that is kind of off topic -
I know for a fact that my religious indoctrination still exists in the back seat of my mind because, being raised Catholic, my seemingly uncontrollable initial reaction whenever someone says something "negative" about Catholicism is "Hey now don't be saying something like that"

It's weird but I think a statement of the psychological effect religious indoctrination has.

Walt, I am a free thinker I don't follow organized denominational religion. I think a lot of people are hung up on this. I just look to have a personal relationship with God through the teachings of Christ. As I have told you I didn't grow up in church. I wasn't indoctrinated. I lived life and found these things to be true in my spirit as well as my life experiences. I have witnessed and felt the presence of the Holy Spirit. I have witnessed healing. I have witnessed changed lives. I have witnessed love and forgiveness in his name. I have witnessed too many thing to be coincidence. And I like to play poker so I know the odds.

 

[atlashunter]

I have always felt much closer to God out alone on a mountaintop, in the woods, or on a riverbank than I have stuffed into a manmade building full of judgmental people trying to impress each other with their piety. I totally agree with you on this. As do I. But those judgmental people need to be there just as much if not more than you and I. I disagree people are naturally evil. Some are some aren't but people are naturally sinful. I do think you and Atlas have some resentment as the way you were raised though. And with Atlas losing both his parents in the same year has some anger as well. Which is understandable as I couldn't imagine how I would feel.

Don't try to psycho analyze me.

Both of my parents are still alive fortunately. And you can't just chalk up someone rejecting religion to a bad experience as if that is the only reason someone would reject all the nonsense that has been pointed out in this thread. That may be a convenient way for you to dismiss their conclusions but it's not treating their position with the respect it deserves.

I fell off a ladder once. It was very unpleasant. That didn't lead me to the conclusion gravity doesn't exist. Nor did a bad religious experience lead me to the conclusion god doesn't exist.

 

[red neck richie]

Don't try to psycho analyze me.

Both of my parents are still alive fortunately. And you can't just chalk up someone rejecting religion to a bad experience as if that is the only reason someone would reject all the nonsense that has been pointed out in this thread. That may be a convenient way for you to dismiss their conclusions but it's not treating their position with the respect it deserves.

I fell off a ladder once. It was very unpleasant. That didn't lead me to the conclusion gravity doesn't exist. Nor did a bad religious experience lead me to the conclusion god doesn't exist.

That explains a lot you falling off a ladder. You must have bumped your head pretty hard. I still feel the resentment. BTW respect is earned.

 

[atlashunter]

That explains a lot you falling off a ladder. You must have bumped your head pretty hard. I still feel the resentment.

For a "free thinker" you sure put a lot of weight on feeling.

 

[atlashunter]

BTW respect is earned.

Indeed. I treat faith based beliefs with the respect it has earned.

 

[red neck richie]

For a "free thinker" you sure put a lot of weight on feeling.

Yup gut feeling and I am still sensing a lot of resentment. You call it a feeling I call it a sense. You should pay more attention to your senses. By the way I eat pork and don't think I could handle 40 virgins.

 

[WaltL1]

That's interesting... I'm not trying to say they are evil or less Godly than any other denominations. I just think they are the beginning of the problems in modern Christianity.

No explanation necessary.
I assure you, Ive had much worse thoughts about Catholicism than you have

 

[WaltL1]

Walt, I am a free thinker I don't follow organized denominational religion. I think a lot of people are hung up on this. I just look to have a personal relationship with God through the teachings of Christ. As I have told you I didn't grow up in church. I wasn't indoctrinated. I lived life and found these things to be true in my spirit as well as my life experiences. I have witnessed and felt the presence of the Holy Spirit. I have witnessed healing. I have witnessed changed lives. I have witnessed love and forgiveness in his name. I have witnessed too many thing to be coincidence. And I like to play poker so I know the odds.

Lets see, how can I word this.....
I don't doubt for a second that you believe the things you have witnessed/felt can be attributed to God.
Nor do I think the only way a person can come to believe in God is because they were indoctrinated when young.
But I also don't think its a coincidence that you pick the Christian God as the one you believe is responsible for it.

 

[red neck richie]

Lets see, how can I word this.....
I don't doubt for a second that you believe the things you have witnessed/felt can be attributed to God.
Nor do I think the only way a person can come to believe in God is because they were indoctrinated when young.
But I also don't think its a coincidence that you pick the Christian God as the one you believe is responsible for it.

I don't agree but I respect your opinion. Atlas do you see how respect works?

 

[Big7]

Air must be getting thin up there.

The Roman Catholic Church was created and existed for the sole purpose of controlling people, IMO. Throughout the Middle Ages, the Church held the same position in Europe that Islamic theocracy holds in the Middle East today.

Air must be getting thin up there.

How Old Is Your Church?

If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex- monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517.

If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.

If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year 1560.

If you are a Protestant Episcopalian, your religion was an offshoot of the Church of England founded by Samuel Seabury in the American colonies in the 17th century.

If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582.

If you are a Methodist, your religion was launched by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.

If you are a Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London in 1774.

If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, N.Y., in 1829.

If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1605.

If you are of the Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder, because he originated your religion in New York in 1628.

If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.

If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder.

If you belong to one of the religious organizations known as 'Church of the Nazarene," "Pentecostal Gospel." "Holiness Church," "Pilgrim Holiness Church," "Jehovah's Witnesses," your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men within the past fifty years.

If you are Roman Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.

If anyone can show my wrong, please do.
BUT you can't.

I knew better than to bite in here.

 

[Artfuldodger]

I'm not sure the Catholic Church started in the year 33 nor any of the other denominations as well.
Perhaps since the Middle East was under Roman rule, that gave them the heads up on Christianity from a historical prospective.
I don't believe Jesus picked a denomination as he was offering salvation to everyone.
That would more than likely make the original "non-denominational." Kinda like the no Jew, no Gentile thing based on grace and not works lest it's not grace.