Do you have to be good to go to heaven?

[fish hawk]

As for the prodigal son; the young man was seperated from his father and lost "until" the son chose to return. The father did not go get him, and the father had nothing for the son "until" the son returned.
The same is true of our relationship with God.

But his father still loved him!!!

 

[Artfuldodger]

As for the prodigal son; the young man was seperated from his father and lost "until" the son chose to return. The father did not go get him, and the father had nothing for the son "until" the son returned.
The same is true of our relationship with God.

The key is the son chose to return as Ronnie pointed out. Of course the father still loved him. What father wouldn't? No one can snatch you from God's hands but you can yourself. Your free will doesn't vanish when you get saved. Once saved always saved must go hand in hand with election.
I don't think we can say , well that person was never saved.
Go over to the triple A, atheist & others forum and ask some of the former Christians if they were once saved.

 

[Ronnie T]

I don't call once saved always saved "modern-day" teaching. It has always been this way for many Christians. So its "old-day" teaching. My belief is Christ died once for all folk as the perfect sacrifice. He does not need to die more than once. We die once with Christ, buried in water, and raised to new life in like manner of Christ's example. So once saved always saved in like manner. If a person who "claims" to be saved goes so far away from Christ then they need to take a long hard look at "if" they were saved to begin with. There are times we stray and do need to repent but we know we need to repent through the "pulling" of Christ and the Spirit of God (the Comforter) on our hearts. Even scripture calls this backsliding. It is not up to us to determine the salvation of someone else, only our own salvation. We are not saved by emotions but by Christ who "changes" the heart and spirit at the age of accountability when we know the need for Christ. As a personal experience, only God and the person knows the transformation of heart and spirit. Are we going to say, "I was saved yesterday but not today?" God forbid.

How many times did Christ die and rise from the dead? That has absolutely nothing at all to do with once saved always saved

I can bring up the scripture to reinforce once saved always saved.

Psalms 103:10-12
John 14:1-4
John 6:37
John 10:28
Romans 5:8-9
Romans 8:16,17,23
Romans 8:28-39
Ephesians 1:13, 4:30
Philippians 1:6
2 Timothy 1:12
1 John 3:14, 5:12

There isn't one scripture above that substantiates once saved always saved. None of them. Once saved always saved is a fairly new phenomenon. For many many centuries, there was no such belief and no such teaching.
I know, there are an enormous number of Christians who disagree with me.
We really don't need to discuss it.
It's off topic anyhow.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Short answer is no.Convicted mass murderer on the electric chair repents and accepts Jesus as lord and savior gets into heaven but that dosent make him a good person.

You really got me on that one. I've seen men live their whole lives dedicated to God and living right. I've seen bad evil men repent right before dying of cancer. I guess this is where the rewards come into play.

 

[fish hawk]

Go over to the triple A, atheist & others forum and ask some of the former Christians if they were once saved.

Thats quite alright....I try not to spend too much time there.....I'll just look for my answers in the bible or ask my pastor!!!!I try not to get advice on spiritual matters from atheist.....yall rock on brother.I'll just sit hear and be happy and secure in my salvation.

 

[hobbs27]

Recently the young wife of a youth minister told me that "a person doesn't have to be good to go to heaven".

Is that really a true statement?

Yes, it really is a true statement.There is only one sin that will not be forgiven," blasphemy of the Holy Spirit". (My understanding) and the reason I use my understanding ,is because I don't want to be one of those that say it's my way or else. Is that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is denying his call to salvation. If He calls and you answer, you will be saved.The Book tells us there will be many that did works in his name, they healed in his name, yet he never knew them.It's by Grace you are saved , not by works. Grace being that of an undeserved love...too many folks are going to die thinking they did a good enough job...but never answered his calling and drawing spirit.If salvation were of works, would not man boast of how great they are?

 

[Ole Crip]

There is nothing good you can do to be saved. God granted salvation by His grace through faith in Jesus to all those who believe. God's law condemns all men except by this truth and the acceptance of it!

But doesn't it make sense that those who believe (that is trust and live) in Christ by faith would bear the fruits of Christ living in Him and working through Him. I don't think it can be defined as 'us doing good' but rather Christ doing His works through us, and therefore His works are good.

John 15:5
I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.

 

[Huntinfool]

In a very simplistic way...

She didn't say you have to be good to be saved.

You have to be saved to go to heaven. You have to be good if you are saved.

Good does not save. Christ does. The result of the HS in us....is "good".

Let me put it this way. If you are saved, you will be "good" from the world's perspective because the HS is in you.

So, in a sense, yes...you do have to be good if you're going to heaven. Not to be saved, but BECAUSE you are saved. It doesn't save you. It's an indicator of salvation.

 

[rjcruiser]

Recently the young wife of a youth minister told me that "a person doesn't have to be good to go to heaven".

Is that really a true statement?

Yes....example...the thief on the cross.

But her statement leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.
We certainly should never consider ourselves good, but when a person says, "I don't have to be good to go to heaven" something got missed in the discipleship class.

Sounds like the response of the religious leaders in Christ's time.

The real question: "Will a saved person strive to be good?

Ahh...now you're changing the question.

Yes, a saved person will strive to be good.



Why do we try so hard to change the gospel from something that God does to something we do?

 

[JB0704]

Why do we try so hard to change the gospel from something that God does to something we do?

Calvinist!

 

[rjcruiser]

Calvinist!

You don't have to be a Calvanist to believe that Salvation is not by works.

Eph 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and [h]that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.



I added vs. 10 for everyone so that I wouldn't be accused of cherry picking verses. But I will say, if you look at vs 10, those good works do not come from us...but come from God.

A Christ-centered Gospel is what is taught in the Bible. However, within a century or two of Christ's life, that began to shift to a man-centered gospel. Only one is a true saving gospel....the other...well...

 

[Ronnie T]

Rj.

Listen, pay close attention and stop changing the subject. Okay?

This question has nothing to do with being saved by works.

The question has to do with whether a person can believe they got save; then move on with a life that never thinks about repentance and moving towards godly ways.......... And a youth minister's wife saying it's an acceptable belief. And she even advocates it.

Do you get it now?

 

[rjcruiser]

Rj.

Listen, pay close attention and stop changing the subject. Okay?

First, how am I changing the subject?

Second, what thread in this forum doesn't get side-tracked a little bit?

This question has nothing to do with being saved by works.

The question has to do with whether a person can believe they got save; then move on with a life that never thinks about repentance and moving towards godly ways.......... And a youth minister's wife saying it's an acceptable belief. And she even advocates it.

Do you get it now?

You are adding detail...changing the original question...You are going to get a different response.

The first post/question asked a single question...to which I answered. Look at the thief on the cross. Lived a horrible life....was sentenced to death...yet somehow....made it to Heaven.


So I ask....Was he a good person?


Now, to answer your last post...your last post describes a false gospel. No, a person can't be a Christian and never think about Christ....to which I also answered above.

 

[hobbs27]

Rj.


The question has to do with whether a person can believe they got save; then move on with a life that never thinks about repentance and moving towards godly ways.......... And a youth minister's wife saying it's an acceptable belief. And she even advocates it.

A close friend of mine struggles with this all the time.He believes salvation can be lost, He can't defend it by not making himself sound as he is boasting or judging others.
He believes he is great and maintains salvation because even though he admits he sins, he says he's in constant repentence..Then he judges those that go out drinking, or stay out of church and cuts their grass on Sunday...They are going to heII because according to him they aren't repenting, either way he is selfrightous.
But when you understand Grace, and know that we all are deserving of HeII-, and you realize that sin is sin and we all do it..you realize just what a debtor you are to Jesus, and how great he is.
As for sinning after salvation...he will never forsake you, but he will chastise you...It's between you and Him!

 

[Ronnie T]

So are some of you saying that the young lady is correct in proclaiming to the young people of the church her husbands serves that "you don't have to be good!" ?

 

[RBM]

How many times did Christ die and rise from the dead? That has absolutely nothing at all to do with once saved always saved

There isn't one scripture above that substantiates once saved always saved. None of them. Once saved always saved is a fairly new phenomenon. For many many centuries, there was no such belief and no such teaching.
I know, there are an enormous number of Christians who disagree with me.
We really don't need to discuss it.
It's off topic anyhow.

My point was that if a person is falling in and out of salvation, how many times does Christ need to sacrifice Himself to save a person once and for all? So Christ sacrificed Himself once for all and we follow Him in the death of the "old man" of the world as Paul puts it to put on the "new man" in Christ.

If we are sealed as the scripture says, then we cannot be unsealed. If Christ said that no man and nothing can pluck the saved out of His hand, then no man and nothing can pluck the saved out of His hand. There are plenty of scriptures to back up once saved always saved and I just gave a lot of them. Yes it is off topic but I did not bring it up. I guess that we can just agree to disagree.

 

[hobbs27]

So are some of you saying that the young lady is correct in proclaiming to the young people of the church her husbands serves that "you don't have to be good!" ?

Looking over the posts I would say most are saying that, not just some....I don't know what she said after the initial statement that got your attention.Ive taught teens and adults and there's times you need to make a blunt statement to get folks minds to working.
What she said is true, but it needs to be explained .

 

[Artfuldodger]

What are some verses that say a person must do something? What are some verses where a person can depart from the faith?

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven." (Matt. 7:21)

"He who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:13)

"All this I do for the sake of the gospel, so that I too may have a share in it. Do you not know that the runners in the stadium all run in the race, but only one wins the prize? Run so as to win. Every athlete exercises discipline in every way. They do it to win a perishable crown, but we an imperishable one. Thus I do not run aimlessly; I do not fight as if I were shadowboxing. No, I drive my body and train it, for fear that, after having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified." (1 Cor. 9:23-27)
"If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries." (Hebrews 10:26-27)

"So then, my beloved, obedient as you have always been, not only when I am present but all the more now when I am absent, work out your salvation with fear and trembling." (Phil. 2:12)
"For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of (our) Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them." (2 Peter 2:20-21)
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
1Tim 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.
Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Luke 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
I Cor 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

I TIMOTHY 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
HOW CAN YOU DEPART FROM THE FAITH IF YOU WERE NOT SAVED? ONLY PEOPLE WHO WERE ONCE SAVED CAN DEPART FROM THE FAITH!

Now i'm sure you could say God wasn't talking To Christians in the verses above. There are plenty of other verses where God or Jesus tells us we must "Abide in God and keep his commandments".

 

[speedcop]

isnt that why there will be a judgment. not to judge the wicked and unsaved because their fate is sealed at death or the rapture. The saved will be judged according to their works. Christ knows we are going to sin. Some will try harder than others not to sin. I think of the part where some will have more stars in their crown than others.

But, for someone to advocate that you dont have to be good to go to heaven seems to shift into reverse what the gosple is all about IMHO. Seems like trying to follow God's commandments as opposed to just taking it for granted and not progressing through study and prayer would reap a grander reward. I hope this young lady realizes where this might put here on the scale to heaven if in fact she's serious.

Saw a church sign today that says " mercy and goodness are inseparable". Keep it up guys, I love your discussions.

 

[Ronnie T]

Looking over the posts I would say most are saying that, not just some....I don't know what she said after the initial statement that got your attention.Ive taught teens and adults and there's times you need to make a blunt statement to get folks minds to working.
What she said is true, but it needs to be explained .

She made the statement because she heard a teenager say: "I'm a Christian, I'm not suppose to be living like people who never thing of Jesus as their Lord."