Do you have to be Baptized to go to Heaven?

farmasis said:

Don, that says it is impossible to recieve the Holy Spirit and partake in holy and fall away from the things of God and renew themselves again. I hope you will prayerfully consider this.

Now, that can mean two things. 1) Either we can fall away but not be reconciled back to God, or 2) that there is no way we can fall away and renew ourselves again because God will not let that happen.

Letting scripture interpret scripture, we see....

1) once His, NOTHING can seperate us from God. NOTHING

<SUP>33</SUP> Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-28146>34</SUP> Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-28147>35</SUP> Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-28148>36</SUP> As it is written:


“ For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”<SUP class=footnote value='[c]' sizcache="3" sizset="33">[c]</SUP>

<SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-28149>37</SUP> Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-28150>38</SUP> For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-28151>39</SUP> nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8)

2) Our old self is dead, we are a new creature and we cannot be un-new again

<SUP>17</SUP> Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. (2 Cor 5)

3) To lose your salvation, you must be stronger than God....

"And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption." (Ephesians 4:30)
"Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a deposit." (2 Corinthians 1:21)
"In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory." (Ephesians 1:13)

4) and to lose your salvation you have to make a liar out of God...

"And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption." (Ephesians 4:30)
"Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a deposit." (2 Corinthians 1:21)
"In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory." (Ephesians 1:13)
"Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee." (2 Corinthians 5:5 )

5) God does all the work in the salvation process (we just accept his offer) and once he does it, he doesn't take it away.

<SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-28141>29</SUP> For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-28142>30</SUP> Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. (Romans 8)

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starmello said:

So, you are saying that once you accept God's salvaton, you no longer have a free will?? So, in essence, you believe in Predestination?

Another thought....Satan was an Angel...right?
In fact, he was the most beautiful Angel.....if you cannot
regect you salvation, does that mean that Satan is OK?

Respectively,
Tony

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starmello said:

If free will gives one the ability to reject sin, it also gives the ability to sin....

I know we do not agree, and that is fine, but what happens to the person who drifts back into a sinful life after accepting salvation? I'm not talking abut the person who continues to be repentant, rather the person who is not.

We are probably going to just have to agree to disagree.

tony

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rjcruiser said:

oh boy...here we go again

Farm....I thought your last post was a fitting end to the thread, but apparently not.


But I'll respond.

Star...you've got it backwards. Once we have "accepted" God's gift of salvation, then we have free will as we are made alive in Christ and have the ability to reject sin

You should do a word search in your Bible. Predestination is in there

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rjcruiser said:

But see...before we are Christians, we can't reject sin. It is our nature. We are spiritually dead. There is none righteous.

As far as drifting back into sin, how can we drift back into unrepentant sin if we have God as our guide? Romans 6 is a good chapter on this.

Farmisis put it well in his post above.....yes...we'll have to agree to disagree

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starmello said:

I don't understand how it can happen, but I know it happens.... I have a friend from college who was a "model Christian" (whatever that is) during our college years. To see him today, that would be the last thing that you would think. He is back into the same habits and lifestyle he led before his salvation.. So you ask how can one drift back.....
My only answer, I think, is that sin is fun....if it were not fun, what would be the appeal....

On the same note, I know people who live a good, moral life. They don't drink, smoke, curse, lie....etc... But, they will be the first to tell you that they
are not Christians. How then are they able to reject sin...(Before someone says it.... not I do not believe that works alone will save a person..)

Tony

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starmello said:

So, you are saying that once you accept God's salvaton, you no longer have a free will?? So, in essence, you believe in Predestination?

Click to expand...

Another thought....Satan was an Angel...right?
In fact, he was the most beautiful Angel.....if you cannot
regect you salvation, does that mean that Satan is OK?

Respectively,
Tony

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farmasis said:

I believe in predestination. It is in the Bible. But, it sounds like my definition of it is different from yours.

Free will is not limitless will. Just as we do not have free will to run as fast as we want and are bound by physical llimits, we are also bound to spiritual limits that God controls. After salvation, we have no free will to give back salvation.



I am unaware of the plan of salvation for angels. It appears you can try and elevate yourself to a God and get kicked out of heaven. Seriously, I do think it is different for man than angels. I think that is why they look on our salvation through grace so curiously.

<SUP>10</SUP> Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-30381>11</SUP> searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-30382>12</SUP> To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us<SUP class=footnote value='[b]' sizcache="3" sizset="32">[b]</SUP> they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things which angels desire to look into. (1 Peter 1)

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rjcruiser said:

As to your friend...I'd say he was the rocky soil. The seed fell, took root, but was choked out by the world. Never a true Christian.

As to others, they do good works, but their motives are wrong. How important our motives are to Christ. If motives weren't important, the scribes and pharisees would be in Heaven today.

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earl said:

Predestination is much easier for those of us not going. Less to feel guilty about. Whew ! That's a load off of my mind.

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starmello said:

"Never a True Christian.."



Wow, pretty bold statement....but..then again...I guess that does help defend the once saved always saved doctrine... maybe in the small print somewhere...lol

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