Why do I have to fund your mission trip / VACATION??

Huntinfool said:

I question every day. I spent 33 years questioning it hardcore. It has nothing to do with whether I blindly accept something. Trust me...I'm likely the most skeptical person you know.

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I know this was in reference to another individual, but, someitmes you confuse me. You are a "skeptical hard-liner?" Are you skeptical of people, or skeptical of religion?

I do get your point about suffering in other countries, HF. Anybody with a brain recognizes that the poorest American has it better than many Africans. My response in this thread was not in reference to the folks who go and work in Africa. My response is about folks who raise money to go to locations based on the "perks," or, the trips which are advertised based on the "perks." I have tossed out enough examples at this point.

If it is just a trip of individual enrichment, I would assume such satisfaction could also be derived from spreading the money further by staying at home, and using local resources in many, NOT ALL, circumstances.

Missions are a very good thing, and necessary, and needed. But as with anything else, people will take advantage of a situation, so we have to have our "horse apples" detector turned on when folks come asking for money. It is not ours, and the responsibility for using it wisely, spreading it to the greatest extent, falls on us. Otherwise, we are being poor stewards.

Huntinfool said:

Nobody suggested that missionaries give help that is conditional on acceptance of Christ. That is 100% unbiblical and wrong.

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This is a very good point.

Ahh...as RonnieT put above....we have another thread based on extreme circumstances where discernment is thrown out the window.


This is kinda like those Zero Tolerance rules at the gooberment schools. One extreme case is bad...so then every case is evil.

God has never burdened me to contribute to missionaries, therefore I don't .I also don't know what is in their hearts and can't judge if God has truly burdened them to go out, but if God has, God will make a way.

I know this was in reference to another individual, but, someitmes you confuse me. You are a "skeptical hard-liner?" Are you skeptical of people, or skeptical of religion?

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I am a "hard-liner" because I'm very well convinced of my positions on issues that I decide to pipe up on. That's not to say I can't be convinced in a different direction if the evidence shows itself. I just mean that, if I talk about something with conviction, there is a reason...because I'm skeptical and I've done my best to vet the issue biblically.

My conviction that God is real, that he is the ONLY god and that I am saved because of the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross comes from very personal experiences that leave me 100% convinced of the reality of that truth. He encountered me in a very real way a while back and there is no doubt what happened or who it was that encountered me. That experience cleared up my questions as to whether he was real. From there I believe that his Word is authoritative and so, I vet questions/concerns/issues through that lense.

I do get your point about suffering in other countries, HF. Anybody with a brain recognizes that the poorest American has it better than many Africans. My response in this thread was not in reference to the folks who go and work in Africa. My response is about folks who raise money to go to locations based on the "perks," or, the trips which are advertised based on the "perks." I have tossed out enough examples at this point.

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Definitely, there are some folks who do that. I don't doubt that at all. I suppose this is another one of those areas where I believe in the good of believers more than you are willing to trust at this point. I think that the people who do that are not the majority and that, for the most part, those who go to serve Christ go to do just that. If there is something fun to do while they are there, I don't see anything wrong with that. They are taking vacation to serve. Why can't they ALSO have some fun while they are there? As long as the focus of the trip (and their hearts in the motivation) is on service to the Lord, I don't see the issue.

Missions are a very good thing, and necessary, and needed. But as with anything else, people will take advantage of a situation, so we have to have our "horse apples" detector turned on when folks come asking for money. It is not ours, and the responsibility for using it wisely, spreading it to the greatest extent, falls on us. Otherwise, we are being poor stewards.

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Totally agree.

Huntinfool said:

So which school did you get your accounting degree from?

"Slip through the net"? Did you really say that? Do you understand what the Bible has to say about what God thinks about "this one"?

That darn accounting is leading you astray of biblical truth my friend.

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Schooled here in GA, but educated around the world.

How is my accounting leading me astray?

Don't you have to make choices on how to allocate your resources? Surely you do not posess enough time and money to reach everyone.

What exactly is your plan to not let any slip through the net?

You're letting accounting logic supercede a calling from what I can tell...that's how. At least that's how it reads to me.

If God calls you to minister to "this one"....whether it makes debits and credits line up is of no consequence.

I am not suggesting that either you or I is called to take the gospel to "this one" (that I don't know)...but someone is (that I DO know)...and someone will waste their money by your logic because the parable of the talents apparently tells us that's an unwise investment.

Huntinfool said:

The point of the comment is apparently whizzing over people's heads.

Comparitively speaking...."poverty" in the United States means something VERY different than in many other countries....even Appalachia.





This is what I was referring to. Atlas pointed this out (and rightly so) a while back. I think living with a dirt floor and without indoor plumbing is very hard to fathom....but it does not even come CLOSE to this. I didn't even want to go find this picture. But I need to post it again so that everyone understands the comparison I'm trying to make.

Absolutely, there is suffering in the U.S. that needs to be helped. But I don't understand the mentality that, somehow, suffering people here take precendent over someone suffering elsewhere.

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I agree with you although I think we should take care of our own first but I have a soft spot for all of the children in poverty. To reinterate this sentiment of third world countries-

Recently we had a family go on a mission trip to Haiti just a few weeks ago and they spoke about a little girl who was sold as a child slave and another infant who couldn't be cared for properly and was malnourished because all the dad could do to provide for the infant was cheetos and sugar water. I don't know about you guys but I don't hear of much malnourishment in America even in the most poverty-stricken cases.

If anything, the poorer of our America society tend to be on the heavier side and obesity is beginning to be an epedemic..

Huntinfool said:

You're letting accounting logic supercede a calling from what I can tell...that's how. At least that's how it reads to me.

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You say that you have somehow read into my posts that after being called by God to support a mission, I then used accounting logic to supersede that calling from God?

That would be so wrong that in all probability it could only have been intentionally misconstrued.

Huntinfool said:

If God calls you to minister to "this one"....whether it makes debits and credits line up is of no consequence.

Here we are in complete agreement.

Huntinfool said:

I am not suggesting that either you or I is called to take the gospel to "this one" (that I don't know)...but someone is (that I DO know)...and someone will waste their money by your logic because the parable of the talents apparently tells us that's an unwise investment.

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Here your logic fails completely. You extrapolate to expand my statements to a global scale from an individual scale and suppose that I control or judge the actions of others.

I suspect that you do not lack the ability to understand, just the desire to do so.

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Good job using big words!

How many others could be saved if this one were allowed to slip through the net?

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These are the statements that concern me. Would you (personally) allow one to slip through the net because...

you have to make choices on how to allocate your resources

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Here's how it reads to me (no intentional misconstruing here)...

I have to make decisions about who will hear the gospel based on how I think MY money is most wisely allocated.

If you want to use it...the "edit" button is in the bottom right corner of each or your posts.

I worked with a guy who took these trips and he always came back with a pile of photos he wanted to show everybody. Based on his photos it was nothing but a glorified vacation for him.

Huntinfool said:

I have to make decisions about who will hear the gospel based on how I think MY money is most wisely allocated.

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Since you can not reach everyone, please explain to me how you manage to do something other than to wisely allocate your resources to reach those that you can.

Your alternative would be to manage your resources unwisely and waste the opportunities that you do have.

They are not my resources...nor are they yours. That's the issue that I'm pointing out.

If God tells me to do something that accounting says is "unwise"....I will do it.

Managing "unwisely" is not my only alternative. There is a third option and that is listen to the HS. His ways are much higher than mine. That is my point. It is not just a matter of financial or accounting reasoning.

Jesus told the rich man to give everything he had away and follow him. Would that have been a wise allocation of resources?

It is proving difficult to discuss this topic with someone who has a total understanding of and perfect two way communication with both God and the HS.

Since mine is less than perfect, I am forced many times to rely, at least in part, on my own best judgment as to what they would have me do. I believe that they would prefer to not have me waste my resources funding someone's vacation when there is work to be done. I could be mistaken, though as my lines of communication seem to be not nearly so clear as yours.

JustUs4All said:

It is proving difficult to discuss this topic with someone who has a total understanding of and perfect two way communication with both God and the HS.

Since mine is less than perfect, I am forced many times to rely, at least in part, on my own best judgment as to what they would have me do. I believe that they would prefer to not have me waste my resources funding someone's vacation when there is work to be done. I could be mistaken, though as my lines of communication seem to be not nearly so clear as yours.

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That's funny

Tomorrow is World Malaria Day. Each year 500,000 children die from malaria. Total annual numbers are estimated to be between 1.5 and 2.7 million.

From 1979 to 1998, malarial deaths in the U.S. averaged 5.9 individuals per year. Most were U.S. citizens who traveled abroad to areas where it is epidemic. The next largest group (still minute in number) were foreign (tourists/business) travelers. Diagnosis was 98% antemortem.

Similar information is available for deaths from malnutrition.

The point is, there are significant reasons for an emphasis on missions, both foreign and domestic. If quality of life is a consideration, the shear weight of suffering abroad may be motivating. If helping those at home (U.S.A.) is a burden God has placed on your heart, you certainly have enough work to do.

What still saddens me about this thread is that too often we (yes, I include myself) sometimes use some form of reasoning to avoid the task of meeting the needs, physical and spiritual, of those around us, locally and globally. Such reasoning may be rooted in our prejudices and preferences. God forbid it being rooted in our selfishness.

I haven't really seen anybody say that needs should not be met, though. Everybody seems supportive of missions. We just have different perspectives on how to accomplish it.

I think I once heard that it costs $3500 to build a well in Burkina Faso. Just a few round trip tickets could cost that much. Which is better for the mission?

Also, the parts where I have used the term "local resource" I should have clarified that I meant "local" as in a resident missionary in a foreign land, or another aid group which is already in the mission field.

I believe that they would prefer to not have me waste my resources funding someone's vacation when there is work to be done.

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Shifting away from the topic of whether it's wasteful to take the gospel to the one who slips through the net is probably the best path for you to take at this point. I agree.

I am forced many times to rely, at least in part, on my own best judgment as to what they would have me do.

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Trust in the LORD with all your heart,
and do not lean on your own understanding.
In all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will make straight your paths.
Be not wise in your own eyes;
(Proverbs 3:5-7 ESV)

I could be mistaken, though as my lines of communication seem to be not nearly so clear as yours.

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You are. No worries though. You'll get there.

What still saddens me about this thread is that too often we (yes, I include myself) sometimes use some form of reasoning to avoid the task of meeting the needs, physical and spiritual, of those around us, locally and globally. Such reasoning may be rooted in our prejudices and preferences. God forbid it being rooted in our selfishness.

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Very well said.

You don't. Be a good steward of your money that God has belssed you with and support the work of your church.