1 Corinthians 15.

[gordon 2]

When I read 1 Corinthians 15 my heart has a question(s) at near every sentence of Paul's discourse. I suspect I could get many kettles to simmer over it if I chose to share even just a few examples.

Paul speaks of death, resurrection, seed, bodies heavenly and earthly, addresses some who according to him don't know God, baptism for the dead,...

A specific example might be:
Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power.
-----------------
Why did Paul have so many ideas. attention getting ideas, in such a small text? It seems exceptional for him or are there other examples?

 

[LittleDrummerBoy]

There are times when I dissect and try and get my mind around every idea in a rational and orderly fashion.

And there are times when I try and let the passage wash over me and most of my effort is toward letting the passage grow my faith first.

It is possible to believe things before we fully understand them. For me, that's a requirement for even simpler passages.

 

[gordon 2]

There are times when I dissect and try and get my mind around every idea in a rational and orderly fashion.

And there are times when I try and let the passage wash over me and most of my effort is toward letting the passage grow my faith first.

It is possible to believe things before we fully understand them. For me, that's a requirement for even simpler passages.

I do believe everything- every sentence Paul says that I let them wash over me or that my heart would zero on his statements as in a close read. For example:

Take verse 17 . "And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins."

I read this and it seems to indicate something that I don't hear much about or at all. It is not just the cross that removes our sin. If Jesus had not resurrected and had died on the cross only would we still be in our sins? Paul seems to indicate that a resurrection was also required for the opposite of " ye are yet in your sins" to be the case.

This is what I read and perhaps "read in too much" the resurrection and what followed of Christ's ministry after it accounts for much of the opposite of " ye are yet in your sins." Did the sending of the Holy Spirit account for our changed nature and salvation from our being "in sin"?


So Christ's death did not alone change our nature as saved individual, saved from sin to something else, but his resurrection did also and possibly more yet. All of the different events together account for our salvation from sin and this seems to be what Paul calls the Good News that he is announcing... that he lists at the beginning of 1 Corinthians 15. Salvation is not just Christ crucified Paul claims to only know at some point, but it is the Cross and the Resurrection at least.

If this is the case how often do we hear or read Christ died for our-your sins, nothing more?

This ^ is just one example from on sentence. I have many from many sentences re: 1Corinthians 15? For another example I can see where LDS would see themselves the true believers for the verse on baptism of the dead....etc...

 

[gordon 2]

Was Paul pastoring two kinds of believers or Christians in the church at Corinth?


"for there are some who are ignorant of God—I say this to your shame."

How could this be if indeed it is fact that some in the church were ignorant of God?

 

[Madman]

Anything particular? Corinth was an interesting port town with the Temple of Aphrodite on the hill above.

I would imagine Paul had his hands full there.

 

[gordon 2]

Anything particular? Corinth was an interesting port town with the Temple of Aphrodite on the hill above.

I would imagine Paul had his hands full there.

Yes. So there were some of the baptized still into Aphrodite?

 

[Madman]

Yes. So there were some of the baptized still into Aphrodite?

Very well could have been. Remember there were some baptized still into Judaism.

There are baptized people today who have “non-Christian” beliefs, or are still heavy into Jewish custom, yet still claim to be Christian.

Look at the discussion about those baptized for the sake of the dead, apparently there was some disbelief in the resurrection yet Paul points them to this practice as evidence that even they “really believe” also.

 

[gordon 2]

Very well could have been. Remember there were some baptized still into Judaism.

There are baptized people today who have “non-Christian” beliefs, or are still heavy into Jewish custom, yet still claim to be Christian.

Look at the discussion about those baptized for the sake of the dead, apparently there was some disbelief in the resurrection yet Paul points them to this practice as evidence that even they “really believe” also.

I see what you are saying. So could I infer that new Christians think the engine works like the old engine except the make is different. I find this still somewhat strange that new converts flesh off the apostolic ministry would be so messed up. But I do recall New Age folk newly converted still jived with the New Age dance in the new one.


Never the less... Lets look at it another way. The new converts had the Holy Spirit but were yet ignorant of God... for what reasons? a) they were ignorant of the God of Abraham due to no knowledge of ancient Hebrew scripture and tradition. b) their hearts and minds were trained by the pagan religion. c) their hearts and minds were trained by the politics of their times which in large part was antichrist, but it was hard to figure out. In other words they were a warrior people.

But why would they be concerned with not believing the resurrection? I suppose if you are with a long history of war crimes, raiding and pillaging forgiveness is a relief...

Afterlife. ah! They had not the understanding of a possible resurrection in their tradition. Ah!

Interesting. Possibly they were forgiven their sins but had not the Holy Spirit yet. They need to move forward from the foot of the cross... to Resurrection and and on to Pentecost? So with Pagans Paul would indeed know only Christ crucified first? and then move on....?


What else?

 

[Madman]

About 10 years ago, my sons and I decided to study Corinthians. We started with the history of the region, spent all summer on that never made it to the Bible study.

If you can look at the region, major port town. It is narrow the claim is sailors would port and drag their boats across from on sea to another.

A HUGE melting pot for the world.

 

[gordon 2]

I'm starting to get the picture. So there were multiple reasons why people would come into a Christian group. Just like now... some were getting away from another group more than coming into a new group perhaps. Some wanted a place to be with others, some wanted entertainment etc Perhaps...

 

[Madman]

Some do not understand the faith.
Many don't understand the faith.