Did you ever consider that Christianity as we know it is not simple. It is very complex--even though we might not want to admit it.

[SemperFiDawg]

But if you’ve already come to Jesus.,…….He is our rest, even now.

Oh for sure. Christ's work is done in me eternally speaking, but mine isn't done down here for him. I'm called to be a servant. Servants serve. There's a reason for the parable and hearing " Well done good and faithful servant." and ‘You wicked and lazy servant...cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness."

 

[Israel]

Looking at our performance or even men's esteem of it is a great way to have one's eye redirected to Jesus Christ as need be. Everything else is unbearable...and thanks be to God for making it so! So that what is made for us bearable to behold is then made unspeakable glory and joy.

 

[Waddams]

Late to the party, I know, but to me - Christianity is simple in that God created man perfect, man fell and become imperfect, not the way God intended or wanted. Hence death, God won't allow His creation to exist perpetually in a manner He doesn't intend (that's my interpretation of God, not necessarily one others will agree with). But rather than just let us go, He gives us a way to both pay the price of sin (death) and be resurrected to perfection and restoration to what He intended for us. All we have to do choose to accept what He offers us while submitting to His will. I also think He has a plan that will ensure that every human that ever was, is, or will be gets a chance to make that choice. To me that part is pretty simple.

The complexities start appearing when we try to start figuring out what the plan is when we can't know or understand it completely.

 

[StriperAddict]

"His yoke IS easy and His burden is light" is a joyful relational re-direct we can bank on when the storms come. Sorry if I'm repeating myself, but that's what brings remembrance to Paul's notes on "therewith am I content" in Philippians 4:11-12

 

[gordon 2]

In my world of Crushed Heads and Bruised Heals ( Banjo Picker) and of The Easy Yoke and The Light Burden ( StriperAddict) and everything in between, I still see and live with complexity regards Christians day in day out.

The work of one and the convince of the other and the food of the tree are all in me competing for my life as if I was not only a racer against time and the world, but against myself still well cursed, as most others in our Christianity are said to be, in a race where I'm the racetrack, the racer, the winner and the looser and the screaming fan all breaking the winner's lines at the same time.

The only claim to fame I have is that I have trained myself to leave Believe behind. I learned early that it kept me with the doubt associated with not to believe. It causes me to be what I am not--a Believer with doubts. This is perhaps the major item I have removed from my race as a Christian. As for the rest I race still with and in their complexes and complexities.

For me Christianity is complex but I have faith in the will of God that for it I-we will overcome and the complexities that hold it back will one day be no more.

It seems to me that everyone believes that everyone else misuses Christ to a purpose unwholesome even if understood as mainly well intentioned, but also purposely intentioned. It is built in, this suspect of our lives in Christ and Christ's life in us. I find Christianity complex.

 

[Israel]

yes, christianity is complex. horribly complex. horribly.

But horribly still has a work assigned it.



Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

 

[gordon 2]

yes, christianity is complex. horribly complex. horribly.

But horribly still has a work assigned it.



Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Don't know why, but it's happening since the Apostles to various degrees from Thomas, Peter and Paul to Bishop Pell even in his death and many more inbetween! From a few seeds entire valleys have been sown.

It's like everything is not fixed to the point satisfaction where someone sees the need for a new tool to fix things better or validation to jump ship.

Everyone is looking for weaknesses or selfish improvements from a sect that is never in right standing no matter what they do. Everything has to be returned to for revival or precedent of what not to do, or what was not done.

The blind can guide the sighted on account that God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise and everyone is blind to somethings inside their testimonies. Don't know why.

 

[Israel]

Everything is working.

 

[StriperAddict]

 

[SemperFiDawg]

View attachment 1203705

It seems to me we are born with our intuition pointing in the wrong direction like a compass always pointing Due South. Victory through surrender, freedom in becoming a bondservant, pray and bless those intent on my harm, complete peace through forsaking all intents and designs on the future, Thy will (not mine) be done are exactly opposite of what all my instincts point toward. The needle didn't correct to Due North once I was saved. It's a battle I have to fight myself over ever minute of every day. None of it is intuitive to me. Some believers may say it is to them, but judging from what I've observed over the course of my life , it ain't for the most of us. Still, it's the most rewarding life I've ever dreamed of.

 

[BassMan31]

the faith is simple. modern times and luciferians demand we diminish our faith's message with insistence on "evidence" and "explanation." of course the only evidence lucifer's worshipers will accept is corporeal and the only explanation they'll accept is that which is palatable to them. Christ's worshipers fall right into their hands trying to "explain" his perfect message to the dead; forgetting spiritual things can't be understood by those dead to it. Hopefully I don't need to continue, there.

Satan knew he couldn't diminish the perfect sacrifice of Christ directly so he decided to cloud it with sciences and ritualism. He's done a good job of it, if the four pages worth of paragraphs long ramblings is any evidence.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

the faith is simple. modern times and luciferians demand we diminish our faith's message with insistence on "evidence" and "explanation."

"Luciferians????" That's a new one on me. I haven't the faintest what it means, though I could probably guess and be close.

Modern times or ancient, there's nothing new under the Sun. Christ's entire ministry consisted chiefly of providing evidence and explanation to the lost, including the "Luciferians." Whether the evidence and explanations result in salvation or condemnation is His realm, not mine, but make no mistake, He did it because it was needed..... and it still is.

What gives us the hubris to treat our salvation like a drowning man who after being thrown a life preserver and making onto a life-boat , refuses to throw it to others on the pretense that they will reject it? It's a good thing God didn't do that with His Son when it came to us.

How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?

 

[BassMan31]

"Luciferians????" That's a new one on me. I haven't the faintest what it means, though I could probably guess and be close.

Modern times or ancient, there's nothing new under the Sun. Christ's entire ministry consisted chiefly of providing evidence and explanation to the lost, including the "Luciferians." Whether the evidence and explanations result in salvation or condemnation is His realm, not mine, but make no mistake, He did it because it was needed..... and it still is.

what miracles are you performing to prove Jesus's message?

 

[SemperFiDawg]

what miracles are you performing to prove Jesus's message?

I honestly don’t get believers with your mentality. I gladly tell the people I work with about sales on groceries or tell anyone who wants to know where and how I’ve caught a mess of fish. Why would I not tell them about the best thing in the entire world.

I can’t do miracles but I can certainly relay to others the miracles I’ve experienced and the miracles I’ve witnessed in others lives. Why would I not. It’s the best thing that has ever happened to me and I would have everyone that wanted it to have it.

 

[StriperAddict]

The needle didn't correct to Due North once I was saved. It's a battle I have to fight myself over ever minute of every day.

The flesh will always be present, but the good news it's not our "fight" per se, because the flesh wars against the Spirit, and the Spirit wars against the flesh, Galatians 5:17. It is also something that is "not us", but an often accusing imposter that goes off in our thinking from time to time. (And I get you, it happens often! That's why it's necessary to understand our birthright and identity IN Christ! -- 2Cor 5:17 & Gal 2:20)

Surrender, as you mentioned, is the direction we can choose to take. I like the words availability and dependence (on the Spirit) better, since we are not "surrendering" to an enemy who opposes us. That was done away (the opposition) in our belief of the cross and resurrection, which by Christ has transformed us. That hope is both sure and steadfast - not of our self effort, but by Him who was crucified once for all time on our behalf.

The flesh is not "you", it is just a parasite that looses its grip in our intentional trust of Christ.

It's a good topic for discussion, I have some encouraging resources that may help. I'll delve into it next month when I'm out from a needed hernia operation. Health stuff has gotten in the way of time to write on here, so I'll check back with the topic in Feb.
Until then I'd encourage any folks to do a NT word search on the flesh.

Grace to you and to the body of Christ.

-Walt

 

[BassMan31]

I honestly don’t get believers with your mentality. I gladly tell the people I work with about sales on groceries or tell anyone who wants to know where and how I’ve caught a mess of fish. Why would I not tell them about the best thing in the entire world.

I can’t do miracles but I can certainly relay to others the miracles I’ve experienced and the miracles I’ve witnessed in others lives. Why would I not. It’s the best thing that has ever happened to me and I would have everyone that wanted it to have it.

you miss the point. you're asking about miracles and proof of Jesus's message. he proved his own message with miracles he performed and parables he spoke in his day. we tell people about those parables and miracles through God's word. that is how they come to the father: through Jesus only.

 

[gordon 2]

This tread is proving that>>>>

Christianity as we know it is not simple. It is very complex--even though we might not want to admit it.​

It is not simple on the individual level, on the inter-relational level nor at the Church-community-culture level. Although I do believe that all who contributed to the tread so far are mostly on the same faith page, all carry a different individual spiritual knapsack, secular and in some cases very differrent faith histories.

There seems to be, for me, a lack of stewardship within that would hold everything less complex, less confrontational in discussions with regards to fellowship and faith issues, opinions and spiritual life in general.

Often we are (and I am) the riders of a ghostly horse... I'm not sure why. What is simple for one is ripe with complexes for another. I'm not sure why.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

This tread is proving that>>>>

Christianity as we know it is not simple. It is very complex--even though we might not want to admit it.​

It is not simple on the individual level, on the inter-relational level nor at the Church-community-culture level.

The Gospel is simple yes

I think life can still be as simple and only as complicated as YOU want to make it

Maybe the Holy Spirit ministers in the faithful as the Church. . Maybe the Holy Spirit ministers in the schools of theology. Maybe the Holy Spirit ministers through the prophets. Maybe the Holy Spirit ministers trough prayers and fellowship.

Maybe the Holy Spirit cares that you are cleaned up from your once sloppiness in your fellowship.and again that you sometimes come as you are sloppy and untidy, talk your ear off and cryptic in dialogue even....
So maybe a forum needs specific directives and additional heading regards differing fellowship.

 

[Israel]

Beyond this, or in addition to it, when one factors in matters of motives and intents assigned to the outworking of thought/consciousness as "ideas in motion" via speech, acts...all doings...and consider these things of motive as no less than real to themselves, as no less "real things" even as that which they identify themselves by as selves (I am a very very kind self!...a patient self...an honest self...a christian self...ha ha ha)...then the matters are compounded accordingly.

All in all a wiser might say the self is in a continual striving to manifest itself as "real" even (who has been married?) against [all] other selves it does not and cannot deem of equal weight of reality. If only the balance were equal in ourselves in all our demand of "prove yourself to me!" and turned to an inward query where the man is pinioned himself upon "prove yourself to me".

He would have to turn elsewhere to know...who he is. What he is. Even that "he is". Unable to prove his own being to himself.

 

[gordon 2]

Beyond this, or in addition to it, when one factors in matters of motives and intents assigned to the outworking of thought/consciousness as "ideas in motion" via speech, acts...all doings...and consider these things of motive as no less than real to themselves, as no less "real things" even as that which they identify themselves by as selves (I am a very very kind self!...a patient self...an honest self...a christian self...ha ha ha)...then the matters are compounded accordingly.

All in all a wiser might say the self is in a continual striving to manifest itself as "real" even (who has been married?) against [all] other selves it does not and cannot deem of equal weight of reality. If only the balance were equal in ourselves in all our demand of "prove yourself to me!" and turned to an inward query where the man is pinioned himself upon "prove yourself to me".

He would have to turn elsewhere to know...who he is. What he is. Even that "he is". Unable to prove his own being to himself.

The inward query or questioning that there is better in reality or in life for the self due our hopes for the belief in God promises, hope in the great prophecies that the blind will see and that in ourselves there is ever a greater capacity to love others and God which we in our own selves know is a limited love but one day will be life all in all, so....

The calculated and periodic stabs at revival in and out and the re-imagining of the Church itself, the reassessment of our own lives in Christ and His in us, is it not a calling from within and a calling to fellowship not that we fall short of the Glory of God, but that there is ever a better ground to stand on for ourselves from which to be fed by God. I know that for myself I'm not unlike the little tax collector getting in the way of Jesus. I do this because it works for me. Christ invites himself to my shacks...

Much more than our commonality of egos selfish and giving there is Christ calling, "calling you and me. Come home." I am, we are, like the prodigal son going home, on the road. And so I am, we are all inwardly not there yet. We are unknown quantities and limited in capacities.

Therefore we have places to rest our feet which are different one the other. One rests his in the Kingdom, another in the Church, another in Scripture, another in the sacraments, another in reason another in the revelation of what was once mystery.

In conversation one uses a word to mean something global which is understood as being local to another and vis-a-versa. We are wonderers in a desert which is in ourselves. We stop at our wells, each other's, where we recognize there is some water to the degrees we know it can be turned to wine. And were we know in the other there is water to be turned to wine, that there is wine, we know Christ is there inside another who like me lacks capacity to make the desert wells give only wine.


Mountains surround us from each other though we are to Christ and the viewpoints are many. Never the less" Christ come" and let the children be baptized and the adults too. Let us share wines...in the wholesomeness of the wedding...even though for now married life is never at all what it will be.

So I am a tax collector and a payer of taxes and a pilgrim and I define myself in these works which I do admit I think about.