DNR says turkey numbers are down in Ga.

[Son]

Trip from Lake Seminole to Albany Ga yesterday shocked me. The plantations along 91 were burning their woods. During quail and turkey nesting season? I know the birds are nesting in Miller and Early counties now and I wouldn't burn the woods off. Maybe those plantations use the put and take quail hunting method. Just last week a fellow who lives next to the Silver Lakes management area said. DNR traps turkeys there to relocate to other areas of the state. Hope they aren't putting them on those plantations.

 

[Whit90]

But they say that positive impact on the habitat out weighs burning a few nests up...
Which I can not understand. You would think that if we are in the middle of a decline that every single egg would matter.

I am sure this has been talked about before, but can anyone shed some light on why burning a month before or a month after nesting would not achieve roughly the same habitat management goal?

I imagine that if burns were prescribed a month before then a good bit of nesting habitat may be lost and the fires would be hot due to how dry it is in January. The idea of burning after plots are running around sounds a little better, even if it may be harder to burn because of moister or other variables.

 

[Hoosier06]

Don't worry, the scientists with little peer reviewed research say it's fine. I don't know why they can't do it a few weeks before or after nesting season. Any nest survival When the number is near zero to begin with is infinitely better than zero. I could understand the logic if there were enough turkeys to make up the difference, but most areas in georgia have zero turkeys to begin with.

Does anyone have a link to peer reviewed research that addresses this topic?

 

[mallardsx2]

The state should make spring forest burning illegal....You burn woods from October through Feb or not at all....

I'm so sick of this spring burning nonsense.

 

[Timberman]

"DNR says turkey numbers are down in Ga."

They be right

 

[buckpasser]

"DNR says turkey numbers are down in Ga."

They be right

Yet they won’t take a stand against nesting season burns…or even prohibit their own from conducting them…

 

[buckpasser]

I love that I’m not the only one upset by the foolishness. @Hoosier06 I posted up a UGA study a year or two ago that listed predators and late burning as 1 and 2 for turkey decline for land managers hoping to promote turkeys. It’s not rocket science, but we continue to lean on the turkey doc for his pearls of wisdom that are sometimes to the contrary of common sense itself.

 

[spencer12]

I’d be willing to bet spring burns are beneficial to pine tree growth. That is beneficial to the dollar. A turkey is not worth as much to the state as a tree. Not basing this off research just opinion, but most of the time dollars have more to do with a decision than common sense.

 

[Grizzly1775]

I love that I’m not the only one upset by the foolishness. @Hoosier06 I posted up a UGA study a year or two ago that listed predators and late burning as 1 and 2 for turkey decline for land managers hoping to promote turkeys. It’s not rocket science, but we continue to lean on the turkey doc for his pearls of wisdom that are sometimes to the contrary of common sense itself.

Are you referring to this one you posted?
https://getd.libs.uga.edu/pdfs/williams_mary_m_201212_ms.pdf
If so, I believe you may be suffering from some conformation bias. It does say that predators and fire are #1 and 2 causes of nest failure, but not turkey decline. It also says that 75% of the hens with burned nests successfully renested, and one of the burned nests actually hatched. The paper ultimately concludes that small scale late season burning is suggested to improve nesting and brooding habitats and potential nest loss is mitigated.

 

[Zebco The Clown]

How many hatchlings from a nest actually survive to adulthood? 1 in ten? Less or more? If it is 1 in ten, then roasting a nest really only sacrifices one future adult turkey. Burn up 3 nests, you are only sacrificing 3 adult turkeys of the future, to create much better habitat that they say will outweigh that sacrifice.

 

[HermanMerman]

Portions of the Hitchiti Experimental Forest were burned on opening weekend last year. It’s surrounded by the Piedmont NWR. I’m sure the goal centered around timber management and not wildlife, but seems like they could have gotten around to that in January rather than late March.

I saw other properties being burned on opening weekend of this year. Again, timber management might have been the aim, but it sure isn’t helping nest productivity.

 

[buckpasser]

Are you referring to this one you posted?
https://getd.libs.uga.edu/pdfs/williams_mary_m_201212_ms.pdf
If so, I believe you may be suffering from some conformation bias. It does say that predators and fire are #1 and 2 causes of nest failure, but not turkey decline. It also says that 75% of the hens with burned nests successfully renested, and one of the burned nests actually hatched. The paper ultimately concludes that small scale late season burning is suggested to improve nesting and brooding habitats and potential nest loss is mitigated.

I believe the bias may well be yours. 71% success on first nests, 40% on second…

Yeah, burn it hot and and burn it late! That’ll help ‘em real good! Poult survival was basically cut in half on late nesters as opposed to early as well. You really don’t need this study to know that burning any bird’s nest is not a good idea. You also don’t need it to know that predators are responsible for nest failures, but we have it to confirm what anyone with any sense already knew. Do you work for DNR?

 

[Grizzly1775]

I believe the bias may well be yours. 71% success on first nests, 40% on second…

Yeah, burn it hot and and burn it late! That’ll help ‘em real good! Poult survival was basically cut in half on late nesters as opposed to early as well. You really don’t need this study to know that burning any bird’s nest is not a good idea. You also don’t need it to know that predators are responsible for nest failures, but we have it to confirm what anyone with any sense already knew. Do you work for DNR?

Man you’re the one who posted a study that suggested late season burns are more beneficial for turkey than they are harmful. Common sense has its place, but a wild animal has no real use for it. Research is the only way to figure out why an animal does what it does

 

[buckpasser]

Man you’re the one who posted a study that suggested late season burns are more beneficial for turkey than they are harmful. Common sense has its place, but a wild animal has no real use for it. Research is the only way to figure out why an animal does what it does

It boils down to “large scale” vs small in the study. What would you consider large? I consider the burns discussed in this thread and on this forum done by the state and large land owners to be most certainly in the “large” category. The study specifically says to avoid those if managing for turkeys. Again, burn objectives can be met without late season or nesting season burns, so why do it? Turkeys are down enough (per the average GA hunter) to change season dates, daily limits, and season limits, yet not down enough to use common sense on RX fire??? Again, do you work for DNR?

 

[catchdogs]

Burn the woods before or during nesting will only cause more issues for nesting sites and nest predation .

 

[buckpasser]

Burn the woods before or during nesting will only cause more issues for nesting sites and nest predation .

Yes, you are obviously correct, but we are to a point in this country that there is nothing that simple. Right, wrong, smart, stupid, fact, fiction... All the black and white that you and I can see is just shades of gray anymore. We can’t even all agree on such an obvious and simple thing as burning turkey nests being a bad idea because someone, somewhere said it’s no big deal…

 

[elfiii]

I’d be willing to bet spring burns are beneficial to pine tree growth. That is beneficial to the dollar. A turkey is not worth as much to the state landowner as a tree. Not basing this off research just opinion, but most of the time dollars have more to do with a decision than common sense.

FIFY.

In my neck of the woods burning has been replaced with herbicide spraying. It takes years to recover from that.

 

[kmckinnie]

FIFY.

In my neck of the woods burning has been replaced with herbicide spraying. It takes years to recover from that.

Herbicide sprays start at 135 for 2 1/2 gallons now.

 

[Yelpu1]

Had a piedmont warden tell me that they managed trees not turkeys. The only wildlife they manage is woodpecker.

It’s all about the money! Our Turkey population as been in trouble for 15 years o wma lands, with the exception of a few hotspots. The only response you I got to low population, was they were at carry capacity, which didn’t add up. To little to late.

 

[2dye4]

Had a piedmont warden tell me that they managed trees not turkeys. The only wildlife they manage is woodpecker.

It’s all about the money! Our Turkey population as been in trouble for 15 years o wma lands, with the exception of a few hotspots. The only response you I got to low population, was they were at carry capacity, which didn’t add up. To little to late.

That is sad that they admit to the info that we all knew. Not sure why their title is GAME Warden. Should be renamed to WOODPECKER Warden I guess.