DNR Turkey Season Survey...

[Danuwoa]

Fellows, I don’t mean competitive like “I’m better than you”. I mean competitive like there’s a flock between us and I make sure I’m at least as good at turning them into nuggets as you are. I personally don’t offer much instruction, so as to be “competitive”. Another term that may have been in better taste is “relevant”. If you aren’t changing and improving constantly, you can quickly get yourself into the “not enough turkeys” crowd.

Man hunt how you want to. You should. But other people can do the same.

 

[buckpasser]

Man hunt how you want to. You should. But other people can do the same.

I wish, but their whining has forced a coming change for all of us. I don’t care how you hunt, and never have.

 

[Danuwoa]

I wish, but their whining has forced a coming change for all of us. I don’t care how you hunt, and never have.

Not everyone is going to be happy no matter what. Somebody is going to complain regardless.

 

[buckpasser]

I’ll be helping the flock either way...just like today.

 

[Buckman18]

Lot of reading here but I just hope changes are made (for the better of all of us and the turkeys) and people on this site have to eat their own words.

"Learn to be competitive and a woodsman"....What a statement. lol

Did you read the rest of his post?

@buckpasser mentioned one property that is managed has plenty of birds, and another property that is not has fewer birds.

I think that was a very credible post, and changing the decades old season regs will have no positive impact on his properties.

 

[jbarron]

I voted none of the above.

Pay a bounty on yote, fox, coon, and hog tails.

 

[antharper]

I voted none of the above.

Pay a bounty on yote, fox, coon, and hog tails.

I think this would help more than anything , and it wouldn’t have to be a lot . Heck I already do it for free but I plan on getting paid in the long run

 

[stonecreek]

I voted none of the above.

Pay a bounty on yote, fox, coon, and hog tails.

North Dakota put a bounty on predators last year. Worked great and also introduced a bunch of kids to trapping.

 

[buckpasser]

North Dakota put a bounty on predators last year. Worked great and also introduced a bunch of kids to trapping.

That would be awesome.

 

[cowhornedspike]

As far as Cedar Creek is concerned, I`m not a wildlife biologist, but with the uncontrollable variables that are in play such as weather, disease, predators, etc., that may be present on a WMA, I`m not at all sure that a two year sample is adequate to conclude anything about season delays. That would be the determination of the wildlife population biologists.

Spoken like anyone who didn't get the intended results from a study ...

 

[MesquiteHeat]

Would love to see our state offer a serious trapping incentive, like a full refund of your trapping license for a quota of catch. I caught 23 yotes and 4 bobcats between deer and turkey season in 2 clubs last year, imagine if 15 more people in my county did the same.

 

[Turkeytider]

Spoken like anyone who didn't get the intended results from a study ...

Not really. Sample size and uncontrolled variables are always elements to be considered in any scientific study, whether in the laboratory or in the field. Wildlife population biology was not my area of study, therefore I`m not qualified to assess if the length of the study or the variables I mentioned are significant in this particular study. As I stated, that would be for the wildlife biologists to determine, not me or you ( unless, of course, you`re one of the biologists who conducted the study ).

 

[across the river]

The problem is that breeding is being disrupted by removing too many birds prior to peak nesting. These are all just different ways to reduce the number of birds killed prior to peak nesting.

I have read all of the studies done, so I understand the concept. However, if there is only so much nesting cover on a place, how does it help? The season was the same for years, and there were plenty of turkeys. There were also fences rows, grown up fields, a lot of habitat diversity, etc.... Other GPS studies at Miss State have shown a huge dependency on habitat with a mixture and ~30% hardwoods holding the highest population. If you have 1000+ acres of pine plantation with little nesting habitat, it makes no difference. Those with good habitat will have turkeys, those without will not. I get that is really the only card you have to play, but the changes seem like grasping at straws. Especially considering other states have already made similar changes, without any statistically significant improvements that I’m aware of. I guess I just don’t get punishing the dude that has worked hard to have good habitat and turkeys because the guy with poor habitat is complaining when you consider the changes are based on “theoretical” management and not something that has been proven to work at this point.

 

[across the river]

Well, I guess we`ll see over time. One way or the other.

Considering very few state actually start the season in March, and the populations have continued to decline in those states as well, I really don’t think there is much to “see.”

 

[hrstille]

Fire ants & folks spraying chemicals do 100 times more damage on turkeys than hunters.

 

[C.Killmaster]

I have read all of the studies done, so I understand the concept. However, if there is only so much nesting cover on a place, how does it help? The season was the same for years, and there were plenty of turkeys. There were also fences rows, grown up fields, a lot of habitat diversity, etc.... Other GPS studies at Miss State have shown a huge dependency on habitat with a mixture and ~30% hardwoods holding the highest population. If you have 1000+ acres of pine plantation with little nesting habitat, it makes no difference. Those with good habitat will have turkeys, those without will not. I get that is really the only card you have to play, but the changes seem like grasping at straws. Especially considering other states have already made similar changes, without any statistically significant improvements that I’m aware of. I guess I just don’t get punishing the dude that has worked hard to have good habitat and turkeys because the guy with poor habitat is complaining when you consider the changes are based on “theoretical” management and not something that has been proven to work at this point.

From what I understand there are many factors at play including things like nesting habitat. These proposed changes can only address the factors that are related to harvest from a regulatory perspective. You can't improve habitat on private lands with regulations and Georgia is 93% privately owned.

 

[stonecreek]

Feral hogs also do a fair amount of damage to turkey nest. I hunted a small maybe 180 tract for a guy that was infested with hogs and the turkeys vacated the property but after 2 years of shooting, dogging and trapping we put a decent dent in them and the birds returned.

 

[across the river]

From what I understand there are many factors at play including things like nesting habitat. These proposed changes can only address the factors that are related to harvest from a regulatory perspective. You can't improve habitat on private lands with regulations and Georgia is 93% privately owned.

That is my point. You guys could reduce the quail limit to zero and eliminate the season all together, and it wouldn't make any difference. Similarly, people who manage habitat will have more turkeys than those who don't. Outside of Georgia, South Carolina, Bama, and Florida, most of the "eastern" turkey states have April 1st or later openings already. Many have similar climates and habitats, yet they have experienced similar declines, and I haven't heard of any outliers. You've got Chamberlin at UGA and Collier, at I believe LSU, leading these studies that are leading to this reduction, but I haven't even heard either of those guys say (correct me if I'm wrong) that it will make any difference in the population. They think it "could" help or "may" contribute, but don't know for sure. Heck, the Bevil guy at South Carolina did a study 40 plus years ago before GPS, that stated basically the same thing these GPS studies showed, but populations were rising at that time even though the season came in "before hens went on the nest." What everyone knows, without question, is that habitat is the main factor in terms of recruitment. Studies have shown this as well, including the GPS study at MSU. I say all that to say, this all comes across as some Hail Mary by you guys to do something just to say you did something. I get it on WMAs, and I have no problem pushing it back on public places where pressure it heavy and all or most of the mature gobblers could be "killed off" before all of the hens are breed. In that localized situation where there is adequate habitat it makes sense due to pressure. I just don't get it on other places. If a guy burns, manages his habitat, selectively harvests, etc..... I don't get reducing his season or limit when he will have birds regardless. In the same sense, moving the season or reducing the limit for a guy who is hunting marginal habitat isn't going to increase his population above what the habitat can carry anyway. If all the hens are trying to nest in marginal habitat, then how does it matter? I understand you guys don't have a lot of options at your disposal to address the issue, but it seems like it is more of a case of doing something just to say you are doing something because people are complaining, rather than doing something that has been proven to work.

 

[C.Killmaster]

That is my point. You guys could reduce the quail limit to zero and eliminate the season all together, and it wouldn't make any difference. Similarly, people who manage habitat will have more turkeys than those who don't. Outside of Georgia, South Carolina, Bama, and Florida, most of the "eastern" turkey states have April 1st or later openings already. Many have similar climates and habitats, yet they have experienced similar declines, and I haven't heard of any outliers. You've got Chamberlin at UGA and Collier, at I believe LSU, leading these studies that are leading to this reduction, but I haven't even heard either of those guys say (correct me if I'm wrong) that it will make any difference in the population. They think it "could" help or "may" contribute, but don't know for sure. Heck, the Bevil guy at South Carolina did a study 40 plus years ago before GPS, that stated basically the same thing these GPS studies showed, but populations were rising at that time even though the season came in "before hens went on the nest." What everyone knows, without question, is that habitat is the main factor in terms of recruitment. Studies have shown this as well, including the GPS study at MSU. I say all that to say, this all comes across as some Hail Mary by you guys to do something just to say you did something. I get it on WMAs, and I have no problem pushing it back on public places where pressure it heavy and all or most of the mature gobblers could be "killed off" before all of the hens are breed. In that localized situation where there is adequate habitat it makes sense due to pressure. I just don't get it on other places. If a guy burns, manages his habitat, selectively harvests, etc..... I don't get reducing his season or limit when he will have birds regardless. In the same sense, moving the season or reducing the limit for a guy who is hunting marginal habitat isn't going to increase his population above what the habitat can carry anyway. If all the hens are trying to nest in marginal habitat, then how does it matter? I understand you guys don't have a lot of options at your disposal to address the issue, but it seems like it is more of a case of doing something just to say you are doing something because people are complaining, rather than doing something that has been proven to work.

I'm not in a position to argue the finer points of this since turkeys aren't my area of expertise. I'm just trying to share information and recommendations from our turkey biologist and the researchers working on this. I can tell you that Dr. Chamberlain does firmly believe that the seasons open too early and that it's negatively impacting breeding along with several other factors, he's told me that directly.

 

[across the river]

I'm not in a position to argue the finer points of this since turkeys aren't my area of expertise. I'm just trying to share information and recommendations from our turkey biologist and the researchers working on this. I can tell you that Dr. Chamberlain does firmly believe that the seasons open too early and that it's negatively impacting breeding along with several other factors, he's told me that directly.

Point taken. Like I said, I understand the move, because you guys have no other hand to play. However, as you and I both know, having and negative impact and having a significant impact are two separate things.