Does any version of atheism include belief that there is a spiritual realm? Thanks.

[RegularJoe]

Does any version of atheism include belief that there is a spiritual realm? Thanks.

 

[ambush80]

Atheist means "A" (without)- "Theist" (belief in God(s))

That's the only qualifier.

One can be an atheist and still believe in werewolves, ghosts, other dimensional creatures and realms, and Santa Clause. Many people's atheism is based on a strong requirement for evidence and rationality as a precursor to belief, but it also appeals to those who want to reject traditional values in support of a "Progressive" agenda.

 

[ambush80]

like your sig line.

"Brains and abundant information are only as good as one's common sense."

If one were lacking in common sense, do you think they, and the rest of us, would benefit from them lacking in information or intelligence?

 

[oldfella1962]

Does any version of atheism include belief that there is a spiritual realm? Thanks.

Gtreat question! Generally atheism is not believing in the existence of any deity.
Certainly a deity is under the umbrella of the "spiritual" realm, so I would say I am not aware of any form of atheism that would believe in the spiritual but not a deity that goes along with it.

HOWEVER do some atheists believe in the supernatural? In other words ghosts and whatnot, but maybe that would be more of a paranormal thing.

Just as a point of reference, I would consider myself a hard agnostic. By this I mean a deity of some type could, maybe exist, but that the God of The Bible for example does not, because The Bible was written by humans with no divine wisdom or intervention.
In other words, the Bible has been debunked many times over. It does contain some kernels of truth, but nothing that would indicate the presence of a deity that can be confirmed by sources outside the Bible. But that doesn't preclude the existence of some type of deity existing in the past, in the present, or in the future at some point. I can't debunk what I haven't even seen or heard of yet. But I can debunk blatant inconsistencies, inaccuracies, contradictions, and outlandish claims when they are in a book open for investigation & scrutiny.

I guess I would be a hard agnostic of the "spiritual realm" because so far all of it seems to exist only in the human imagination so far anyway.

Bottom line, many hard-core atheists do not believe in the spiritual realm at all nor the supernatural realm. It's a slippery slope, and if you don't see sufficient evidence for the spiritual why should you lower your standards for anything supernatural? Nothing should get a pass when it comes to skepticism and the burden of proof.

 

[RegularJoe]

Old - Thank you for your time and for your thinking. - Joe.

 

[oldfella1962]

Atheist means "A" (without)- "Theist" (belief in God(s))

That's the only qualifier.

One can be an atheist and still believe in werewolves, ghosts, other dimensional creatures and realms, and Santa Clause. Many people's atheism is based on a strong requirement for evidence and rationality as a precursor to belief, but it also appeals to those who want to reject traditional values in support of a "Progressive" agenda.

Yes there are those who want to reject a belief in a deity for the purpose of supporting a "progressive" agenda. Then again as you mentioned, many atheists believe in evidence and rationality. There are those like myself who reject a personal belief in the God of the Bible, but are conservative and practice traditional values such as family & country, hard work, equal opportunity (but not equal outcome) and reject almost all of the "progressive" agenda.

It is funny how some people believe in every crazy unproven nonsensical thing under the sun but won't believe in God, and some people believe in God but reject all the other crazy unproven nonsensical thing under the sun! Here is what works for me:

1. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is!

2. Science has questions that may never be answered, while religion has answers that should never be questioned.

3. The most likely reason for something usually turns out to be the truth, so begin your search there.

 

[RegularJoe]

If one were lacking in common sense, do you think they, and the rest of us, would benefit from them lacking in information or intelligence?

The more information/intelligence the better (if I my understanding of your question is doing your question justice : ).

 

[ambush80]

The more information/intelligence the better (if I my understanding of your question is doing your question justice : ).

I guess it's important to define common sense. It's a bit of a squishy term and will probably be hard to get consensus on what it is. Broken down into its constituent parts, "common" would mean that it's ubiquitous, found everywhere like dirt or air. "Sense" is the hard one. For something to make sense or be sensible, I believe that it comports with reality or established truths.

If a person were lacking in common sense, that would mean that they either haven't been exposed to long understood truths, that they reject them out of hand, or that they lack the ability to internalize them. In the case of that individual, I don't think that more information/intelligence would help them, indeed, too much information might confuse them or they may be lacking in intellectual horsepower. If you could convince them to adopt a "ready guide" system of belief, it might actually benefit them and the rest of us.

 

[oldfella1962]

I guess it's important to define common sense. It's a bit of a squishy term and will probably be hard to get consensus on what it is. Broken down into its constituent parts, "common" would mean that it's ubiquitous, found everywhere like dirt or air. "Sense" is the hard one. For something to make sense or be sensible, I believe that it comports with reality or established truths.

If a person were lacking in common sense, that would mean that they either haven't been exposed to long understood truths, that they reject them out of hand, or that they lack the ability to internalize them. In the case of that individual, I don't think that more information/intelligence would help them, indeed, too much information might confuse them or they may be lacking in intellectual horsepower. If you could convince them to adopt a "ready guide" system of belief, it might actually benefit them and the rest of us.

Good points here! Your "world view" would influence the definition of what is "common" sense. Fact X might seem like common sense among those who share your worldview, but fact X is nonsense to those sharing a different worldview. Or perhaps you are of a different mindset, and fact Y might seem like common sense among those who share your worldview, but fact Y is nonsense to those sharing a different worldview.

That's a big reason why all the "facts" available on any subject (take religion....please!) won't change a person's mind, because they too have all the "facts" that counter your "facts". Because with any worldview other things come along for the ride, like
FILTERS, confirmation bias, selective listening, etc.

This is why IMHO science and faith are 180 degrees in opposition most of the time.
Here's an analogy I came up with, but I'm sure others have too:

Let's say Christianity is an FM (frequency modulated) radio signal. You can pump out Bible facts 24/7 and the storehouse of information might grow and grow and all the other Christians with an FM radio get pumped full of Bible facts and they can call in to the FM radio with their own ideas on the Bible facts and everyone gets educated to the nth degree in Bible stuff.

But science is an AM (Amplitude Modulated) radio signal. Those with an AM radio are unable to hear one word of the Bible facts broadcast on FM radio. They FM Bible signal can be transmitted with a gazillion watts of power and the AM science fan's radios can be turned up all the way to eleven, but nothing will get though. The science lovers out there in radioland with an AM radio can get all the science facts from the AM radio signal they could ever want. Of course, the FM radio listening Christians will never hear a word of the AM science signal. I hope this made sense!

Anything based only on faith cannot be tested or proven by science because if it could be proven, everyone (to include those without "faith") would believe it, which would make the concept of (and the need for) faith meaningless.

IMHO if you have Christian faith and want to keep it (nothing wrong with that, it's a free country) I would advise you to be very careful reading your Bible!
Eventually tuning out all the science thoughts you are bombarded with might not work. All the moral contradictions might get too hard to ignore. You might be reading the Bible for the hundredth time in good faith, but a switch might flip in your brain when things just aren't adding up anymore. Perhaps more things that you accepted as true & accurate might not seem to add up no matter how hard you try to get them to add up. You may start to actually question what's in the Bible with a more open mind. Just something to think about, that's all.

 

[RegularJoe]

If a person were lacking in common sense, that would mean that they either haven't been exposed to long understood truths, that they reject them out of hand, or that they lack the ability to internalize them.
In the case of that individual, I don't think that more information/intelligence would help them,
indeed, too much information might confuse them or they may be lacking in intellectual horsepower.
If you could convince them to adopt a "ready guide" system of belief, it might actually benefit them and the rest of us.

I am trying to climb back up off the floor from rolling all around with laughter. That was a fun reply to read. : ))))))). I.e., so much truth in what you said (e.g., I would could benefit from a "ready guide." ... heading on over to Amazon/Books next.).

 

[WaltL1]

Does any version of atheism include belief that there is a spiritual realm? Thanks.

my understanding of Atheism is simply a disbelief in a God or gods. The end.
So any other belief, such as in a "spiritual realm", would not fall under a "version of Atheism".
I have no doubt you could find Atheists who believe any number of things, including a spiritual realm of sorts. Just not a God or gods.

 

[oldfella1962]

my understanding of Atheism is simply a disbelief in a God or gods. The end.
So any other belief, such as in a "spiritual realm", would not fall under a "version of Atheism".
I have no doubt you could find Atheists who believe any number of things, including a spiritual realm of sorts. Just not a God or gods.

That sums it up well. There are many types of atheists just as there are many types of theists.

 

[660griz]

Does any version of atheism include belief that there is a spiritual realm? Thanks.

While the strict definition of atheism points to there being a possibility there could be an atheist that believes in ghost. I sure hope that is not the case. To use logic, critical thinking, and common sense to come to the conclusion there are no gods only to throw it all down the toilet for other supernatural beings, well...not cool.

 

[WaltL1]

That sums it up well. There are many types of atheists just as there are many types of theists.

Yep.
I think lots of folks waaaaay over complicate or assume way too much about Atheist "beliefs".
"If you dont believe in God, you must support abortion".
"If you dont believe in God, you must view yourself as a god".
"If you dont believe in God, you can not be spiritual".
And all sorts of wacky stuff.

 

[RegularJoe]

That sums it up well. There are many types of atheists just as there are many types of theists.

I think lots of folks waaaaay over complicate or assume way too much about Atheist "beliefs".

To try to gain a netted out / simplified / core understanding I have studied the book entitled Humanist Manefestos I & II.
[ https://www.amazon.com/Humanist-Man...ix=humanist+manefesto+2,stripbooks,126&sr=1-1 ]
It provided a base and this forum has been confirming, while helping to expand my understanding further.

 

[oldfella1962]

While the strict definition of atheism points to there being a possibility there could be an atheist that believes in ghost. I sure hope that is not the case. To use logic, critical thinking, and common sense to come to the conclusion there are no gods only to throw it all down the toilet for other supernatural beings, well...not cool.

Hold on now! So you're telling me that all those "ghost hunting" shows on TV might not be on the level?

 

[oldfella1962]

Yep.
I think lots of folks waaaaay over complicate or assume way too much about Atheist "beliefs".
"If you dont believe in God, you must support abortion".
"If you dont believe in God, you must view yourself as a god".
"If you dont believe in God, you can not be spiritual".
And all sorts of wacky stuff.

I cannot STAND being pigeonholed * concerning political beliefs and religious beliefs! There's a video online - made by an atheist whose views I normally share - entitled (paraphrasing here) "you can't be a Republican and an atheist". Granted the guy might debunk this claim and he needed a catchy title for the video, but if he's serious then my respect for him just plummeted. I'll watch it just to see later today.

* with the whole LGBLTKFC+ thing going around, "pigeonholed" might mean something different than it used to.

 

[Spotlite]

I cannot STAND being pigeonholed * concerning political beliefs and religious beliefs! There's a video online - made by an atheist whose views I normally share - entitled (paraphrasing here) "you can't be a Republican and an atheist". Granted the guy might debunk this claim and he needed a catchy title for the video, but if he's serious then my respect for him just plummeted. I'll watch it just to see later today.

* with the whole LGBLTKFC+ thing going around, "pigeonholed" might mean something different than it used to.

Like…………you can’t be Christian without suspending common sense and logic??

 

[oldfella1962]

Like…………you can’t be Christian without suspending common sense and logic??

Not really. I said I don't like pigeonholing religious beliefs into political beliefs, and vice versa.

 

[Spotlite]

Not really. I said I don't like pigeonholing religious beliefs into political beliefs, and vice versa.

Sorry, I thought you said this - "I cannot STAND being pigeonholed * concerning political beliefs and religious beliefs!"

I am going back to my whole now. Working on a water wheel with a hand-crank pump to pump water out of a creek without using electricity.