Forward Facing Sonar

[drhunter1]

What is your opinion? Do you think it is good for the sport of bass fishing?

In my opinion it is fascinating technology and can be fun to use. With that said I believe that the soul of bass fishing has been largely removed with it. All of the analysis of the water, the weather, the structure, is basically gone

Maybe I am just an old codger who is a relic but it is more like a a video game, in my opinion, than it is skill.

Again this is my opinion and I respect all sides of this issue.

What say you.

 

[sleepr71]

Livescope,etc is no different than flying a drone, with a thermal camera, mounted on it, over a hunting property.. before I go deer hunting… JMO,but I grew up without electronics..

 

[across the river]

I think times change, technology changes, and people, in general, don’t like change. When a fishing reel first came out, I am sure the cane pole fisherman complained. When bass boats and tournament fishing started, the fish to eat crowd in their Jon boats complained about that. Same with the “fish finder”, power pole, Alabama rig, polarized sunglasses, or anything else you can think of that a select group had initially. The ones who grew up fishing without out, didn’t like it, it was unfair, whatever. Eventually, like any other technological advancement, it becomes common and the next group and generation doesn’t know fishing with out it. That’s life. People like to complain, but things continue to advance. However, like when traditional sonar came out, just because you have it, doesn’t mean you know how to use it. I think there are guys (and girls) that are really good with it and have figured out how to target fish deep or suspended now that the guys who have dominated beating the banks for years have an issue with. Tough luck, that’s life. It no different than your job, your home, or even your car. Most all are vastly different now, from a technology standpoint, than they were years ago. You figure out how to adapt and move on, because it isn’t going away.

 

[Dustin Pate]

I love it and have no problem with it. I agree with Across the River, LS has shown that what we thought we knew about fish behavior was wrong....well, not totally, and those who have made a living fishing "old school" are getting left behind. There is a huge population of fish that spend their time in open water just roaming around. LS has unlocked that and people are feasting on it.

 

[northgeorgiasportsman]

What is your opinion? Do you think it is good for the sport of bass fishing?

In my opinion it is fascinating technology and can be fun to use. With that said I believe that the soul of bass fishing has been largely removed with it. All of the analysis of the water, the weather, the structure, is basically gone

Maybe I am just an old codger who is a relic but it is more like a a video game, in my opinion, than it is skill.

Again this is my opinion and I respect all sides of this issue.

What say you.

I don't understand that statement. Do you think FFS has eliminated the need to study water/weather conditions?

I think a lot of the hate towards FFS comes from people who have never used it and think it does a lot more than it really does.

I remember when people were studying their sonar and dropping down to catch fish under the boat and people called it "video gaming."

I promise you that serious bass fishermen, heck, even not so serious bass fishermen like myself, are still analyzing water conditions, weather, structure, and bass tendencies.

 

[across the river]

I love it and have no problem with it. I agree with Across the River, LS has shown that what we thought we knew about fish behavior was wrong....well, not totally, and those who have made a living fishing "old school" are getting left behind. There is a huge population of fish that spend their time in open water just roaming around. LS has unlocked that and people are feasting on it.

The part that is funny to me about the whole thing, is a lot of the people I hear complaining have already broken down and gotten LS, but just can’t change to adapt. The guys (and girls) that I know that are winning with LS are almost “striper fishing” or “duck hunting” in the sense that they are spending hours upon hours upon hours in a lot of cases covering water until they find the fish they want to target. It isn’t like they just head out with LS and win these tournaments. The “traditional” guy spent two days pre fishing and casting thousands of times and finds a long stretch of rip rap holding fish. The LS guy spends the same two days riding around and doesn’t make a cast, but finds a couple of hundred largemouth in one particular ditch on a spot lake. The first guy catches 15 pounds and then looses to the second guy with 22 and gets mad about it.

 

[1eyefishing]

I draw the line on the other side of being able to find and see the fish.
When they come out with something that makes the fish bite, that's what I'll call cheating.

 

[hopper]

I draw the line on the other side of being able to find and see the fish.
When they come out with something that makes the fish bite, that's what I'll call cheating.

The Banjo Lure

 

[drhunter1]

I don't understand that statement. Do you think FFS has eliminated the need to study water/weather conditions?

I think a lot of the hate towards FFS comes from people who have never used it and think it does a lot more than it really does.

I remember when people were studying their sonar and dropping down to catch fish under the boat and people called it "video gaming."

I promise you that serious bass fishermen, heck, even not so serious bass fishermen like myself, are still analyzing water conditions, weather, structure, and bass tendencies.

I respect you opinion and let me also point out that I am not hating on it. BTW I have an older hummingbird that I’m still trying to figure out how to use and have had no luck in doing so. So again I’m not hating on it.


I am just expressing my opinion on it and wondering if it’s good for the sport. That’s all.

It is a current technology that is a game changer. Now whether it has a negative impact on fishing remains to be seen, but I do know what I see on the tournament trails and it appears that there is a whole lot more watching the screen and dropping a bait at targeted fish.

That does not mean I do not see folks fishing docks and banks and blow down trees. I do believe however it gives the angler an advantage that greatly increases their chance of catching more fish.

When professional anglers on podcasts say they “ Don’t like it but they have to do it to compete” it makes a statement in my opinion.

I get the point though that technology advances over time and that’s just the way things are and always have been. We haven’t exactly been throwing spears at them over the last century so I get it.

I’m not a serious fisherman and don’t fish tournaments because I don’t feel like throwing my money away.

 

[1eyefishing]

The Banjo Lure

Jeremiah.
Once you fish with him you'll see what I mean.

 

[across the river]

I respect you opinion and let me also point out that I am not hating on it. BTW I have an older hummingbird that I’m still trying to figure out how to use and have had no luck in doing so. So again I’m not hating on it.


I am just expressing my opinion on it and wondering if it’s good for the sport. That’s all.

It is a current technology that is a game changer. Now whether it has a negative impact on fishing remains to be seen, but I do know what I see on the tournament trails and it appears that there is a whole lot more watching the screen and dropping a bait at targeted fish.

That does not mean I do not see folks fishing docks and banks and blow down trees. I do believe however it gives the angler an advantage that greatly increases their chance of catching more fish.

When professional anglers on podcasts say they “ Don’t like it but they have to do it to compete” it makes a statement in my opinion.

I get the point though that technology advances over time and that’s just the way things are and always have been. We haven’t exactly been throwing spears at them over the last century so I get it.

I’m not a serious fisherman and don’t fish tournaments because I don’t feel like throwing my money away.

You are acting like this only happens in bass fishing. I believe it was Davis Love that complained about metal drivers when those came out and he held onto persimmon until it realized he had to adapt. Recently some pros were complaining about the golf balls. Baseball players have complained about bats. It happens in everything. The biggest difference is the lifespan is other sports is so short change is almost continuos. The younger fisherman aren’t complaining about it, because they don’t know life without it. It is the older guys that won without it 5, 10 or 20 years ago that haven’t figured it out that are complaining. How would it be bad for the sport? It is only an advantage to those who know how to use it, but that can go for anything. It isn’t like some are being prohibited from using it. The “newer generation” of anglers do not know life without it, so again, it is only an issue for the “old guys”.

 

[JonathanG2013]

The Banjo Lure

Never caught anything with that. Did catch a lot of bass on the flying lure.

 

[JonathanG2013]

Live Scope ffs is just better technology of showing where the fish are located at. The fisherman still has to use a lure or live bait to make them bite. If they have lock jaw, there is no technology in the world that can make them bite.

 

[toolmkr20]

FFS sure didn't help on Murray this past weekend for the Bassmaster tournament. Sure it was used in between sight fishing for feeding frenzies, but that was just to kill time until they saw the next blowup. I look at it as a tool. Sometimes it is gonna help you and sometimes it isn't. You still have to understand what makes the fish want to bite when it comes to water temps, current, bait spawning and weather. In my opinion that will never change.

 

[Burton]

FFS sure didn't help on Murray this past weekend for the Bassmaster tournament. Sure it was used in between sight fishing for feeding frenzies, but that was just to kill time until they saw the next blowup. I look at it as a tool. Sometimes it is gonna help you and sometimes it isn't. You still have to understand what makes the fish want to bite when it comes to water temps, current, bait spawning and weather. In my opinion that will never change.

I was using it on the herring spawn a couple weeks ago on Russell. It confirmed that there were more than a few fish on a couple of points, and I fished them in a tournament the following day (and caught a lot of fish).

But I also used it to pitch a ned rig or a damiki or an a-rig, and I caught fish like that by putting my bait directly on the fish I could see on livescope.

Of course, my biggest fish was up in 2 ft of water that I couldn't see on livescope. I was just fishing a shallow point and she ate it.

Other times, I don't see a fish on livescope. I would cast out my a-rig and you could watch the fish come off the bottom that you didn't know they were there.

I probably caught 5 or 6 fish out of 20 that I watched them eat it on the LS and one of them was a gar haha.

(Livescope user since Aug 2020)

 

[drhunter1]

You are acting like this only happens in bass fishing. I believe it was Davis Love that complained about metal drivers when those came out and he held onto persimmon until it realized he had to adapt. Recently some pros were complaining about the golf balls. Baseball players have complained about bats. It happens in everything. The biggest difference is the lifespan is other sports is so short change is almost continuos. The younger fisherman aren’t complaining about it, because they don’t know life without it. It is the older guys that won without it 5, 10 or 20 years ago that haven’t figured it out that are complaining. How would it be bad for the sport? It is only an advantage to those who know how to use it, but that can go for anything. It isn’t like some are being prohibited from using it. The “newer generation” of anglers do not know life without it, so again, it is only an issue for the “old guys”.

No Im not acting like that at all. The topic of the question was bass fishing and ffs and what everyone’s opinion was of which I appreciate.

I’m quite aware that technology changes on a variety of different fronts. I’m typing this on an I phone. I’m assuming you were alive before cell/smart phones were a thing. I know I was.

Look, I stated clearly up front that I find them fascinating and I’ve said I own one. My goal was to get different sides of the issue so that I can possibly re-think my view, but what my goal wasn't, was to get into a peeing match with anyone.

And on a side note the opinions expressed have been very well put forth for the most part and have caused me to rethink my position on this topic. I guess you can teach this “old guy” new tricks.

Now if someone could show me how to use the darn thing that would be great.

 

[northgeorgiasportsman]

Now if someone could show me how to use the darn thing that would be great.

There's a bunch of Youtube tutorials on how to set one up, not just use the default settings but really dial it in.

I followed a couple of these tutorials, but was never really satisfied with what I was able to see. I got a FFS pro to read me his settings over the phone while I set mine up. They were radically different from what some of the Youtube "experts" were saying, but I can see my bait much further out in the water than I could previously. I also think I can pick out more fish off the bottom than before. It's just trial and error on setting it up. And you have to tweak it a little each time, depending on water clarity and such.

 

[drhunter1]

There's a bunch of Youtube tutorials on how to set one up, not just use the default settings but really dial it in.

I followed a couple of these tutorials, but was never really satisfied with what I was able to see. I got a FFS pro to read me his settings over the phone while I set mine up. They were radically different from what some of the Youtube "experts" were saying, but I can see my bait much further out in the water than I could previously. I also think I can pick out more fish off the bottom than before. It's just trial and error on setting it up. And you have to tweak it a little each time, depending on water clarity and such.

I’ve tried the YouTube videos and they really don’t address my problem. I have 789 humminbird so it’s about 11 years old. One of the first ones that came out with it. When I first fired it up it was on the sonar screen and I started messing with it and it switched to color graph and I haven’t been able to get the sonar to come back on.

I guess I’m gonna have to mess with it until I figure it out.

 

[Ajohnson0587]

This is beating a dead horse, but I'll bite.
FFS is a game changer IF you put in the time to learn it and learn the lake/lakes you fish. I have friends with $100k boats and another $20-$30k in electronics (FFS, 360, big graphs) and they are still beatinging the bank, because they can't figure out the FFS. I'm in a $6k 16' Bass tracker, I have $8k in electronics, and I out fish them every trip. The difference is, I have all but mastered FFS, but more importantly I have mastered the patience to find the fish. I spend a lot of time idling looking for schools of fish, brush piles, ditches, etc... The pros who are good with FFS have figured that out, which is why you are seeing guys with 3-4 FFS transducers. They have invested in the studying of finding the fish, and the most efficient way is not Side imaging anymore... It's using FFS! The pros I see complaining are the ones that are "stuck in their ways", prime example... Chris Zaldaine, he's an amazing fisherman, but he's as stubborn as a summer day is long. He doesn't like FFS, he makes it known in most of his content, but will say "I have to adapt, even though I don't want to", but all he wants to do is fish big swim baits. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not adapting. But I get it, it's what he likes to do, and he's pretty much perfected it, and heck he helped design the best soft swim bait on the market. But anyone that has spent a real amount of time fishing big swim baits knows, you are fishing for a hand full of big bites at best, and they will likely not come.

I watch a lot of fishing content the pros put out on YouTube, and there are plenty of guys complaining about the FFS, but truth be told, they are struggling to adapt, and as fisherman you have to adapt. Guys like Jacob Wheeler & Dustin Connell have spent every day on the water in the off season perfecting the FFS skill set, there's a lot of young guys who made the pro tour this year (Drew Gill being one) that have done the same and it's showing on the leader boards. I love FFS, it's made me a deep-water fisherman and because I've put in the time to learn it, I am reaping the benefits. I will not make a cast blindly under docks, the bank, lay downs, etc... I have to know there are bass there! I have hundreds of way points on my graphs and those are what I fish mostly, but it's taken me almost 2yrs with a lot of idling & map study to be able to repeatedly catch fish out deep and find those way points. If I spend 6hrs on the lake 1/2 of that will be looking at my maps and idling. A lot of guys approach me at the ramp because they see a guy with a tiny Aluminum boat with 3 graphs on the front, they always ask "how well does it work, is it as easy as they say etc", and I tell those guys to hop on for a couple hrs and I'll let them run the trolling motor in their favorite spots. Only one guy took me up on that offer, he said "Man they make it look easy on Fox Sports" we had a good laugh. After that I took him to several way points and he got to see them eat the bait, but more often he was cussing at the followers that wouldn't commit to the bait on the screen.

*Bloody and tired, the horse beating is over*

 

[LTZ25]

I think FFS is bad for the tournament fan and great for Minn Kota and Lorerance , I miss the guys throwing frogs , spinnerbaits ect . I watched a ffs tourney and never heard of any of the top ten , I'm betting in 6 months a way better system will come out and make the 10 grand $$ that the new pros spent opposite .